oltoot

call it patina and move on

Seems like you are trying to oversimplify. As I'm sure you know there are many kinds of bar patterns, any one of which can be assembled in several gullet/bar spread configurations resulting in different fits. Perhaps defining the different parts that combine to produce best fits. otherwise the confusion continues. Wait til someone comes along and throws Arizona bars into the dialog and people get it in their heads that that equates to a better fit when not necessarily so. I decided long ago that explaining trees to folks was not the place for lumping but rather identifying the parts and their contributions. Having said all that I recognize that the world of the custom saddlemaker blessed to work with a most responsive custom tree maker is different from the instant gratification mentality that has come to dominate the industry and perhaps your simple approach will be helpful there. I still think that I would mention bar design, rocker, twist and length as major contributing factors.

As hard as you pull when you are braiding, maybe just a little harder

Probably a little late but the very best for braiding horsehide is done thusly, I think. Take the hide off down the backbone instead of the belly so that sogas, then strings can come from rounds that are straight belly then smaller rounds for buttons, etc can come from side, butt, shoulder areas yielding uniformity in sets of strings. You can probably still salvage quite a few rounds from the different parts of the hide with the aim of making each one as uniform as possible. Sad but true, be prepared to waste a lot of material in ending up with nice strings. And remember that round is just a general term, ovals work, too. The result is a small, thoroughly stretched string. Be sure and stretch before your final cut and any splitting you do which you want to keep to a minimum by carefully laying out the rounds.

TT was quicker on the trigger. When I was young and stupid (now I'm just stupid) they were quite common, used to be able to cinch a bronc up quick, probably too quick in most cases. They fell out of favor as different kinds of cinch rings became more popular and gentler horses too. This is the first time I've seen it used as a belt buckle. Verrry intelesting!

It is actually a teensy bit forward of full and I think that it will not pull down as well as you predicted. If you like everything else about the shape, set, etc. take the rigging plate you intend to use and move it around till you think you have it and then mark the cutout. Another thing that you should consider and that is your stirrup leathers. How will the slot you cut in the ground seat line up? In other words will your stirrup leathers be free to move and rest without being hindered by the rigging. Just guessing from the pics it looks like a little work is needed there and personally, I would like it better if it were a bit more level across the top across the swells. If you have to, curve that top line a little to keep under the swell cut in the seat (not a concern if you will install the rigging before you cover the front. I know not everyone agrees with this but I wouldn't recommend doing it that way for the primary reason that it will make repairs much more difficult. Just a little sidebar here: the guy that taught me drilled this into me; chances are this saddle will last a long time and be back in here for repair at least once, always think about the guy who will be doing that and don't make his job harder if you don't have to.) Paper really is cheap.

A forensics lab could probably get you age, manufacturer, lot number but it would be costly and take time. I'd just settle for the conventional wisdom that it was used between ~ 1942-46. And maybe a little longer to use up stocks on hand. If you were contracting for 100 you might be interested in saving a few bucks.

As TT says steer away from fur machines as fur is a lot different than hair. Sewing hair is about preparing the project. If you are going to be sewing the hair from the flesh side, something like the Consew 227 should never even hiccup.

As usual, Bruce was Johnny on the spot with a lot of info. It is, I believe what was called a Moose (not Low Moose), and my best wild guess would be Denver (or part of the Denver which could include Rapid City, Laramie, Cheyenne and a few others scene), late WWII. Generally, no maker's mark meant a large contract for certain specs and prices. Sometimes store chains did this for resale in their individual sites. But again, generally, these had to be of pretty good quality or they wouldn't sell. A little bit of history: That method of horn covering was part of a group of tactics that developed as saddlemaking and tanning/finishing of hides evolved. Separate seat jockeys then eight button is another. The leather that we work today is much more malleable than what 1800's shops had available. Then there was that "I'm gonna try something different than what the old man told was the only way it could be done." I doubt seriously that anyone thought of a saddle as a collectible piece of art in 1930 or that some saddles might bring more than a new truck. I'll bet Bruce was right about the felt being original, I can visualize somebody doing that sewing without even taking the saddle all the way apart, doing a bit of contortionism to hold it up under the machine.

His orneriness inspired creativity in the practical jokes department but now that you mention it, I'm not quite sure why he survived those years unscathed. I for one passed several things that might have resulted in severe retribution with just trying to figure out a way to one up him.

It will also help if you grip your work in the pony so that the stitch line is just barely above the edge of the jaws. Look at the pony and be sure that the tops of the jaws meet flush so that you can clamp the work well. That and the sharpest awl possible make conditions ideal so that consistent needle/thread handling will pay off with the desired result.

When I was a kid starting out the main man in the shop was just plain mean but to get along you were supposed to laugh. The shop was in an old building that had been designed for touring cars with canvas tops to pull in so they could be worked on. Those were simpler times and one young buck rode his horse with new saddle on it into the shop and tied him so he could come in to the coffee pot. George poured Barges all ove rthe seat and needless to say somebody was upset. That new saddle was the pinnacle of his achievements in his young life and George had ruined it. After the crying and the threats died down, we counseled mr buckaroo to just chill and we would think of something. When the glue had thoroughly dried somebody walked up to the mess and just rubbed it off.

Always​ ​buy more than you think you need cause you will invariably want to do more, not less

What Josh said

very nice old patch machine, Singer 29 series is modern equivalent. They have changed little from the days of 1862

very nice, I would offer one observation from experience. On the first ones that I did I worked hard to get the ends of the long buttons squared up like yours and then found that they were more susceptible to wear and catching on things so I quit trying to be different and started making those long buttons tapered like everyone else with much better results. But I can testify that it is harder to get them neatly squared than tapered.

The Landis 1 was a workhorse in it's day but that day has passed, the 3 is a needle and awl machine and a lot more modern but as the fellow said, the Amish are experienced in off grid sewing

The Landis 3 was originaly set up with a treadle stand and once you get it figured out you can sew right along, there is a guy who regularly advertises in the Leather Crafters and Saddlers Journal who specializes in old Landis machines and I have heard that he even makes treadle stands. I believe that he is an Amish gentleman and off grid is nothing strange to him.

questions: 1) price 2) hard to tell from info if variable speed is included or just available and does that mean servo or something else? 3) thread stand?

what he said plus before I did it I would call the tree company and tell them about it and what I planned to do instead of the hassle of sending it back and see what they say

My vote is for 9" finished length. Blank cut 13" for chigago screws, 14" for ties, could be ~1" longer depending on your style of finishing buckle end. This for most working outfits. Then the longer, 13" finished length for lighter show rigs. The final choice should depend on the buckle design. Some larger or with points could need to be custom fit to the horse and bit. Remember that the distance from the bridle loop to the bit axis can vary quite a bit and have a bearing on what suits best. Snaffles may operate even further.

I went through this whole thread quickly and only saw one brief hit on the "answer". It goes beyond the knives/tools comparisons to the total systems to be employed. 1) proper cutting surface; it takes two to fully enjoy the differences. For cutting there is much discussion and many different opinions on the best surface and I won't repeat all that, just say that a good surface must be somewhat penetrable by the point but not be too fragile and so then all cutting can be done away from the user with the point and connected one third of the blade and without blocking visibility. 2) for the other area of use , skiving and other related actions, the surface must be slick, hard and non staining. For most skiving the center third of the blade is used though the whole blade is employed for some tasks. So an experienced user of round/head knives never cuts toward him/herself and never obscures the cutting activity with hands, fingers or other body parts. Now, of course, accidents/slips do happen and a little blood is drawn once in awhile. It does take a little practice to learn to sharpen them and there will be a few cases where a straight knife is called for but once they are learned there is no need to consider abandoning them in favor of anything else. All this from the perspective of one who is 70+ years old and has been at this for 50+ years. My day job was cowboy and I wore out a lot of ropes and PTL I still have all my digits and have never passed out from blood loss.

Absolutely DO NOT use wool of any kind. In all my 70+ years of making and using experience any kind of lining can cause problems. If he must have a lining the thinnest, toughest veg tan you can find would be my choice.

Work on sharpening swivel knife and those cut tapers will be easier, tip thumbprints a little more so impression will 'fade' out. Generally one thing that makes it 'pop' is more clean areas showing from smaller tool impressions.

When I was just a pup I saw a guy run three stitches up his thumb with a Landis 16. It was a monday morning and he was still hung over. The thing looped every stitch. I still remember the howling. It continued while we got him loose, cut the stitches out and poured alcohol in the holes. We was me and 2 other guys. 1 to work and 2 to hold him down.