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Everything posted by oltoot
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Please note that the simple single bevel was my first preference and the second only offered as a remedy for someting gone a little wrong. Yes the single is easier to maintain.
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A visit to somebody's tack room with pencil, paper and measuring tape in hand would be helpful, too.
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Personally, from the pictures, I would just bite the bullet and take it to a machinist and go for #2 shape, being careful tough not to end up with something so thin and fragile as to have no durability. Perhaps a compound angle such as # 5 would solve that dilemma. This is usually done with hollow ground blades. The long flat major grind would be for enhancing feeding of the material with the secondary not being so steep as to make the results difficult if not impossible to sharpen. All must be done carefully to keep the temper in the blade all the way through the edge. If you go this way, be extra careful with honing and stropping. Do the the cutting slope most rigoruosly and just keep the feeding slopes smooth and slick.
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Stainless. There is a pretty good reason that you don't see sheets of aluminium used much anywhere in the tack business.
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Having made and used them over the years, I can share my experience or where I got to, I used bear hide or buffalo because the hide was strong and it had stories to go with it. I would use Angora similarly but differently as noted. Starting with a good fitting pair of shotguns and sitting in a saddle, I marked a vertical line on the chaps that in front, were just a seam thickness under the part of the leg that contacted the saddle and bore weight and in back same at top . Then the pattern from that would be two panels equal the leg. Remember to allow extra on each piece for whatever kind of overlap that you will be incorporating. I would make the Angora panel from lighter weight leather than I was using for the rest and pretty soft and a little stretchy would be best and glue Angora to this with Barges. Pattern the finished product to fit a little looser than you would if regular as the angora will get a little stiff with time. Shear the hair under belt pieces, etc right up to where seams will be then wet the remaining little bit and comb/brush it down flat to glue/sew pieces over/around it. Others have given you enough info on where to find a start. I really think that it would be worth the time and money that it would take to make a mockup out of linen or odl jeans if you can get your hands on enough of them. For me the time spent getting it right was well spent but in the end I decided that if it got cold enough to wear them that i would just stay in the pickup. (now, it's the house) Oh and whatever hair you use be sure that it is well tanned and odor free so that you can get on your horse and not get bucked off while wearing them cause cold ground is a whole lot harder than warm ground.
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- wooly woolies
- chaps
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My weapon of choice is a nail nipper appropriated from my horsehoeing tools
- 20 replies
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- copper rivets
- peening
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In all the splitters I've dealt with over the years the shape should be as #4 and the flat side against the roller. This is how blades are when new and users must work hard to keep that backside flat and smooth with the blade then meeting the roller at TDC. A flatter angle than pictured would also be best. Then, in use periodic honing and stropping to keep both sides flat and smoooth as glass, and the edge straight. Then all the other stuff about roller tension, etc comes into play. But all of that will be like a dog chasing its own tail if the blade isn't right. When basics are right then one could experiment with #1 or #5 shapes on top side as there may be some difference in the finished product based on leather types, useage techniques, etc. When work piece is hand fed (as are 99+%) even the heighth of the machine vis a vis the ht of workers can make a difference. That is actually an angle of approach thing which can change if user changes stance or hand position. In my experience splitters are like some wives (not mine) finicky and demanding but the results are woth the attention paid. PS It takes lots of scraps and makes a big mess on the floor getting it perfected.
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Yes, moisture retention can equal yeech, eventually. When I was learning in TX, the boot topstitch patterns sewn on with a roller foot were the place that competition amongst craftsmen reigned. Still seems to be part of a large segment of the industry but my observation over the years of use, repair has been that stitching provides an avenue for moisture invasion and usually leads to breaking up the padding after awhile. Even if rain is kept off, hairy butts sweat and guess where that can go and lead to odor, mold, etc. So I joined the part of the clan that eschewed decorative stitching and I joined the smaller part that said well if we're gonna guard the gate a little let's take it one step further and use the closed cell foams. Short answer was just the yes.
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Unfortunately no silver bullet, just careful work. BTW, you canget a hint as to the order of work by looking at the photo. 1)Tool design on a slightly oversize piece of leather 2) Dye entire piece. 3) Buckstitch 4) cut to final size 5) sew, edge and finish. Buckstitching and final cutting may be reversed
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IMHO dubbing the bars in front would be more preferable than moving the front forward in order to keep from shifting the balance point too far over the poor horse's shoulders. Think about it. The horse is a marvelous creature and that groove just back of the shoulder is a place where extra weight can be tolerated without making it too hard to get the front feet out of the ground for the demands of cutting, etc. In considering the change in leverage created by just an inch with something the size and shape of a twoo-legged. I, too have seen the issue that you have but think that the solution is to be found on the offending end and not the front. Skirts can simply be shorter than the traditional lengths of old and neither do they need to be laced together behind the cantle. They can be left separate and thus give a little more room where you are concerned about. And back to the front. If the bars are well designed to begin with, they will be flared just enough in front that they wont be in full contact unless the horse is standing pretty much straight up as in long trotting from one place to another so redesigning the skirts in front and leaving the tree alone, though as noted by Big Sioux is a little less eye appealing to do would seem to me to be the best approach. And wouldn't you know it, I have just described pretty much what I do when confronted with the issues noted. The Toot toots
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Where in Wyoming, may I ask
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1943 N. Porter All Purpose Saddle Value?
oltoot replied to Margaret Bradley's topic in General Saddlery Discussion
If I were you, just to be sure, I would send pictures and history to Mike graham who has the monthly "What's it Worth?" feature in Western Horseman. I woill be very interested in his take on it but mine is that it looks to be in great, original condition. Without closer examination it is just hard to conceive of the lining lasting this long in that shape. I would put its value in the $800-$1000 range but would certainly defer to Mike's more current experience. PS I worked with a guy in Alpine, Texas who had worked at Porters just after the war. He trained there and a couple of other places under the GI bill from WWII. By the time I worked with him he was plumb mature and ________________ interesting. -
Splitter/skiver Comparison - Heritage Vs Campbell Randall Vs ?
oltoot replied to simontuntelder's topic in Leather Tools
If the price really doesn't determine then I would go for the Campbell. Or find another copy of the Osborne #84. They are multiple lifetime investments. Mine began life in Miles City, Montana in the 1910's and is still suitable to pass on to somebody else. And bigger blades are always easier to sharpen/strop than smaller ones. IMHO -
Those taps look very much older than the saddle
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Another, more complicated approach. I have some original Hackbarth stamps. They have short handles. I also have big hands and use heavy mauls which resulted in a few whacked knuckles. I went to a local gunsmith/machinist and he turned and drilled some oversize handles with full top surfaces on them. He then used heat shrinking/epoxy gunsmith magic to secure them and no more busted knuckles
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Just throwing some more stuff in the pot. When rawhide reatas were more common, it was thought to be preferable to get the reata braided with the moisture from the critter still in the hide and to add little or no more. To accomplish this meant stretching the hide in the shade, fleshing vigorously, sometimes clipping the hair if it was especially wooly, stripping wide sogas, stretching them and then letting them get nearly dry, then first shaving the remaining flesh, then the hair, then cutting the final strings then braiding. No long breaks to go to the fair with that method. I used a modified approach for using gear for awhile. I would stretch, flesh, cut ~2" strips then stretch and dry them. Come time to make something I would scrape a string, wet and temper it then cut my strings to use from that, splitting where necessarry. Those little puppies were sure enough stout and sported a bit of a "punchy" look where a little red or black fuzz remained in a spot or two.
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Just some guesses from pics and your info: Reproduction, not very old Poorly maintained Some of the construction techniques seem to be for 'show' and not too user friendly. Must have spent quite a while wadded up in a corner somewhere.
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I have been using 5/8 closed cell backpacker's sleeping pads for years. Whatever you choose, closed cell is of the utmost importance and the denser the better
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I would turn the blade around cause when I'm cutting a full hide strip of anything I start by slicing into the hide from beneath, leaving about 1" connected to help me manage the rest of the strip as I cut, then I go back and cut it free. And, I would miss a hole in the adjustment screw as I make my adjustment with a spike but I'm assuming that this nicely finished beauty will work with hand tightening and needs no tools unlike my beatup, ancient (~+100 yrs) Osborne. I always craved a twist handle one but never found one I could get my hands on. Seems that if somebody had one they either intended to take it to the grave with them or finance a new pickup or at least a heel horse.
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As you say, on a galloping horse. But in your quest for perfection; perhaps they are a little snug at the knee maybe the line of the plate should be a little further out, pulling the flare in? What weight is the leather? Rounding the corner line a little more to more or less follow the line the way the leather wants to flare. One thing I would draw a + from is that both sides are the same so it's not very likely some big blunder on your part. One thing I've learned in my many years is that 'this, too, shall pass' and so forge on
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Couldn't say anything that hasn't already been said but can ask-what's the hair?
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I second the endorsement. I have had some custom tools made by Barry and when you get past my poor communication, results have been spot on.
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I would put them on first so that prongs would be covered and 1 stitch line down each side should be fine.
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All very well done, just two observations. Have you noticed that on your saddles that are copies of 'old timey' ones that you are placing the ear and concho at the base of the cantle further back than on your originals? Having made and used this stuff for many years, there is a good reason for that. A little further back and a rope is much less likely to get hung up there which is even more so when you have the hobble ring there; and I wonder why you have chosen that slick looking material for horn wraps. Holding dallies is hard enough with a good, freshly roughed up mulehide. In use, when the mulehide gets slick from use, you unwrap the horn, take the mulehide inside and either soak or boil it til it is soft and then take a scrub brush to it and rough it up, then rewrap it and go again. It is all part of the proper wrap which has no nails and is always (except for lefties that do evrything backwards) wrapped clockwise so dallies will tighten, not loosen wrap. Maybe you already knew all this and are choosing different for some other reason.
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Stuff I Find That Shocks The Hell Out Of Me
oltoot replied to tboyce's topic in Leatherwork Conversation
Regarding the HS thing: slippery slope anyone? kinda reminds me of the historical vis/a/vis current thing over horse derived products in this country vs others. I find myself even having trouble navigating it. The horse slaughter debate is kind of a gate keeper. In my own life (70+) years, I've been all over the map on it and I guess I could see myself following (not leading) forays beyond some lines and returning or maybe, just maybe not coming all the way back. I just heard some poor vet talking about the difficulties of putting the warroir mentality that battlefield survival often breeds into its proper (?) place with the kinder, gentler norms of home. At present, I would still be appalled at anybody's proud possession of HS items but tomorrow?