oltoot

Barry King or Jeremiah Watt are both better but Osborne is OK if you have a strop setup

Slicking is also smoothing so I wonder about marks?

Many good ideas and selection will vary by individual. Here's what I did +/- 30 yrs ago. I went to a glass shop and got 4 pieces (I'm still using the first one and have traded two so I'm down to one spare) of tempered glass rounded and smoothed on one side, added a leather handle much like the others and voila!. BTW I think the secret of long life has been that I made a protected place for it on my bench so that the edge is out of the path of any other tools as they dismount/mount their own special places. I almost forgot glass was 1/2 thick and 4 1/2 by 4 1/2

not after the fact as how else would you handle the stress that will be generated by contact? By being careful to be far enough forward so as not to interfere with stirrup leather movement and balanced and the addition of the screw need not be a negative but with nice leather buttons and perhaps a pair of JW screw conchas a positive overall.

Ditto, maybe for colts to wear without fear if they roll on it.

not for guns and wearing but for some kind of tool, first to carry and pack in a larger tool box then to attach to a safety rope, i would guess

Mallet stamp, then things remain simple for years

Depends on what you do. Sizing to your average project is important. If you do a wide range of things you may end up wanting 2 different sizes. You can also consider not putting elaborate borders on the stamp you end up having made, instead opting to have a very plain border on the stamp and then adding the border that matches the project with different border stamps. Then you can size the finished result quite a bit with different choices.

Another 2 bits on breaking saddles on the cheap. Unless you mean a kack for colts to wear around before you get on them with something better, remember that this is all a strange new world for a colt and most of them buck or do stupid things cause they're scared or hurting rather than because they are mean or they have been waiting for a chance to get back at you for putting them through this routine ( they don't generally think that complexly, anyway) so an ill fitting saddle, when pushed down with the weight of a rider will just increase the chance of making that first experience a bad one and building a hard to start to overcome. Long story short, don't do it! In fact, take every possible measure to be sure that a "colt saddle" has every chance of making the first experience as comfortable as possible. AND experienced farriers can tell you that many lameness issues that develop after you start riding a young horse can be traced back to "cheap" saddles or even expensive saddles on cheap trees. Go forth and do good things!

I'm certainly not criticizing anything or arguing with anybody's praise. Just sharing a few observations over time in trying to figure out some of the virtues of old that have been pretty much lost. 1)Tapaderos-it took me some trial and error to get to the point that I was completely satisfied. In order to get the stirrups to hang first vertical and finally just a little forwarward without relying on hard and fast lashing to the stirrup leatjers which was not Californio. The wing design is the trick. If they are gracefully and subtly swept way back at the tips, that makes it and the plate on many could even help that as well as shape retention. 2)General-i finally figured out that some of the features of the early 1900's that were difficult to replicate were because of the differences in cattle hides and therefore leather-thin dense, mature grass fat cattle vs thicker, less dense, younger feed lot cattle. on the up side though, deeper, more intricate tooling designs vs more open designs. Keep up the good work and remember that the good old days weren't always really good, just old

Building good saddles is quite a bit harder than falling off of a log. Some of the schools are a good look and start but remember you pretty much get what you pay for. You're well advised not to tackle tree making on your own. Your problems only start with the bandsaw. After getting the wood base comes the rawhide cover and that is an art in and of itself. The newer synthetic covers (wide variety) only produce marginally acceptable results after a lot a of tool and materiel mastery. With regard to cheap trees I and, I bet many others are too, am of the opinion that no matter how pretty you paint an outhouse, it still stinks. Then consider the horses. I have some years as a farrier and have traced more than a few lameness issues, including grade 1 or 2 clubfoot, back to ill fitting, ill made saddles. All that said, my tree maker of choice, I would classify as right up there with high end quality but high middle of the road for price: AND tree makers can be a lot like wives, your own is just right for you but I wouldn't have her (theoretical, not personal) Quality Manufacturing of Monticello, Utah. On top pf being good, they're good people to work with, though like most of us who have aged, we have developed a crust of grouch. But their's, if you even sense it, is real thin. But, if you must, go forth and do good things!

First to slickhorn: You're pretty much on, I was really speaking more about the mulehide vs rawhide debate, I guess on that point. On a completely different point to Keith: I have meant to ask before; how do you suspend or support your saddles for pictures to get the clean perimeter lines? However, the outcome looks great?

IMHO, there is nothing wrong, there are some plusses and minuses: PLUSSES 1) all the good things about big vs small horns 2)Not as likely to cause serious injury in a wreck MINUSES 1)Horn will be way up in the air, making it a little awkward for some to dally on, especially the gastronomically well endowed; 2)If the user or the circumstance results in rope giving and horn taking a solid hit vs the practiced running of some it will produce a lot of leverage on a horse's withers maybe even causing some to start diving off when they see a jolt coming; 3)Tree Makers may add some practical limitations in actual horn design, placement and selection; and on another subject, buck rolls, I shared your feelings when I was younger but age has made me reconsider as the same net result w/ rolls vs those 'cancerous growths' known as swells can be significantly lighter and a little differently (some would say better) balanced when hefting it up. All that said, diversity can be a great thing!

I don't know anything about the serial #'s etc. I will say that this is the way that I thought fancy saddles and padded seats should look in the 60's and not much later, to mid 70's at latest. But before I would use that to 'age' it, I would want to be able to closely examine the hardware, tree and periphrials. But since BA was targeting a different market than I did back then (me=west Texas, Rocky mountains, them SE), if anybody could help with #'s or catalogue pics they would be more definitive.

Rawhide is just stiffer than leather but soften or not and how depends on the project. Saddle soap, creams, etc are all post braiding options. Pre-braiding or string preparation and treatment, project design, backing material used under buttons, cores for longer things: the list and options is long and takes time, experience, experimentation, observation to master. All that said, it's not impossible for someting to turn out just fine the first time out of the box. How old are you? Go forth and do good things. BTW. In case you haven't already discovered, the history of the cattle industry is intricately interwoven with at least these: The Civil War, the railroads, the buffalo slaughter, the Indian wars, the saddle industry, the hog industry, the generic "westward expansion". Yes, I too am a great fan and student.

I agree with Ron except for moving the rear dee forward. In the future, I would drop everything in back a little; maybe about 3/4. And I would go ahead and trim the skirts even a silly milimeter more and eliminate the stitch line altogether. Then in lessons learned write in big letters, slow down, breathe, wait as long as possible before doing things that tend to commit you to something else. And just a general design/use observation on Cheyenne Rolls: less is more. Just enough to hook your fingers under for a straightening up/getting back rescue or security moves I have found to be just right. Remember, they (CR's) first came into being as safety measures when bronc riders still rode with their stirrups hobbled under them. ( I'm old but I wasn'y in Cheyenne when they hit the bronc riding world and I never have hobbled my stirrups. But I did quietly listen to oldtimers when I was just a hairy legged kid)To guard against ropes hanging in undesirable ways, shape them down closer to the lower end so that when all is done, no little gap remains at the corner. I seem to recall that you did that on your first one so stick to it. Keep on. You seem to be catching on fast.

A collar awl from any number of CFO dealers and then polish the point down round to use

Veeeery intelesting thread says an old guy. I have only seen a few scraps of these things and have been disappointed. I would like to see, if anybody has any ideas, 100% veg tanned american bison as that is one of what supported commercial western USA bison slaughter as meat,beyond tongues and some few salted products could not be produced, practically. Cattle hides were not yet available in any quantities and bison leather was in demand for coach springs, early water powered machine belts and luggage (mostly trunks). As the space cleared of bison became filled with cattle and railroads brought them to packing giants in Eastern population centers, cattle leather replaced bison leather in the supply chain.

Nothing new to say about threading, pulling but but just a note. I am 70+ and started this in my teens. I can never remember having this issue. Here's what I do that I haven't seen mentioned. After tapering end with my knife against glass, I re-wax end heavily then retwist hard before threading, then after threading, then pull and rub end into body.

Never ordered from Springfield, mostly Weaver, never a single problem, several helpful phone visits with Paul and others.

I punch an oval hole in the fold where I want the twist to start, then take a ~ 3/16 - 1/4 latigo string with tapered edges and do a small, folded button on the end and run it inside out throgh that oval hole, wrap up (the stirrup leather, fender end are dripping wet for this so they'll pull down tight when wrapped) but prior to this, I have trimmed the fender portion so that the twist can be smooth and roundish, pull it tight and down through the wrap, leaving a few inches to hang down. Thus, if the wrap comes off in use, the string is easily used to put it back.

Looking good. One question, though. Why not put breast collar dees up higher so that collars fit along top of shoulder? And just a very minor point. I can tell you from experience that those metal clip and dee arrangements, where the line is more or less in the 90 degree to earth orientation, produce, what was to me, an extremely irritating metalic rattle with every step of the horse except when collar was tight as in pulling. I have discovered that when the collar/dee line is in the 45 degree range that the rattle will not appear except when riding without a collar which I almost never have done. Just some of what I have learned from building then using. Now into the strictly style area: 1) in the future, with a combination of skiving components at key points, (better accomplished with a 3/4 or 1" french edger) and a lot of coaching with a large creaser or folder, get that cantle binding stitch line up forward so that the edge of the binding when sewn is right on top of the cantle instead of rearward, usually the alignment that you have accomplished is associated with machine stitched; and, 2) looks like you could use another piece in your ground seat so that you could eliminate those 'corners' at the edge of your seat 'pocket' A triangular piece that went in on top with the point of the triangle up in the dish of the cantle then you skive it down to nothing over those corners and use the extra 1/4" to shape up the seat and the leg groove as it leaves the seat 'pocket' area or you could just adopt one of the ground seat approaches that finish with a large piece on top, going clear up well into the dish.

Suggestion: Start a practice knot with longer than necessary strings and braid the base to wherever your covering knot is projected to end; then, Take one or more of the strings from the beginning portion of the knot clear through until they exit the base knot; then, Turn the ends back on the other end so that they meet the desired path back through the knot; then, Study the way that looks so you can begin to focus on turning back the "right" way. AND try to duplicate this on increasingly longer knots until you have that part of it "down"

Brian Neubert's early CD shows how to do a short cowboy button by weaving. I've seen pictures of Gail Hought with a bosal in progress and she is using the weaving method so I would expect that it would in there. She seems to be employing some string management techniques that would probably be time savers when working under any kind of time pressure. Prior to seeing these things I was trying to learn Bruce Grants method of wrapping and tying and not doing real well but those two experiences set me on a path to a good place. I would offer one piece of unsolicited advice. When weaving the foundation, remember that your first pass is to have quite a bit of space between each string as it is only the start, not the finish, and adjust the angle of your foundation strings for smaller and larger places to cover. AND where you plan to have multi-colored interweaves, even more space between 1st strings to make room for the interweaves. AND a vote for leather (roo or latigo or?) for the nose buttons and other large (many stringed) knots are too demanding to add the pressure that comes from trying to keep lotsa rawhide cased 'just right'.

The best final solution would be a servo but, in the meantime, most clutch