rdl123

Hello Randy - I've had the tree for this saddle for quite a while - However, this one actually went quick for me - Started it in January and worked on it an hour or two on occasional evenings - So feels like it came together quick (saddle 2 took me over a year). Here is the back of the cantle binding - I'm not good at the aim and follow through that Oltoot was referring to...So I definitely end up torquing up the awl blade trying to steer it. Got my Barry King awl blades today - Look OK - So will have to see how they work! I have also attached an image of how I worked the inskirt rigging...I used 4 stainless steel screws up front and two at front of cantle and two behind cantle. Would like input on how others do inskirt rigs. I'll try to get a pic of all how i sewed it and the rivets I added for reinforcement. R

Josh, Must have something to do with sewing the third cantle binding! I have been using a parafin block and rubbing the awl on that - It helps it slide through easier - I was trying to really be careful on this binding and get my stitches on back to look nice - Probably put to much torque on blade trying to 'steer' it. Goldshot, Yes, I use Bob Douglas awls too - Do you know if his blades are still available what with sheridan leather closing? I ordered some of Barry King's when I snapped this one... Glad you like the lines - I've tried hard on this one to get things looking better - There's so much good help available now - Through forums like this, DVD's etc. In particular Keith Seidel has been very helpful on this forum and pointed out things on my last rig that needed attention...I also went and spent a couple hours with Chuck Stormes last summer and he really helped me...it gives amateurs like me a serious help to have that caliber of help available... I'll take some pictures of the riggings and post them for you...A little nervous mind you as I had to figure out how to do that on my own...so not sure if what I did is 100%... Hope your thumb healed up! R

Here is the third rig I have built - It's getting close to done now... Broke an awl blade sewing the pencil roll - Never had that happen before - I am wondering if this is a technique issue... Here are some pics. Made a decent mark in cantle dish when awl blade snapped...think i will add the daisy stamp to cantle dish to help 'camouflage' it...Anyone have suggestions? Saddle Details: Swanke Tree, 16" seat, Inskirt rigged - Rigging at between 7/8th and 3/4...Guadalajara horn (3x4.25"). Next step is to finish sewing cantle binding, oil everything up and then final assembly. Ron L

Hello Hannah, It looks to me like you've been given excellent advice. If you haven't already purchased a tree I would like to second Oltoots advice - Call Sonny Felkins. My last saddle was built on one of his and it is very square and very true. Also, after lots of riding and brandings this season I can say that it fits all of our quarter horses very well. I have limited experience having only built two rigs so far: However, my advice based on this limited experience is: 1) Use the best tree you can afford 2) Use the best leather you can afford. I like Hermann Oak - (I have successfully bough some of my HO from Montana Leather too) 3) Use all stainless steel or brass hardware. Nothing nickel plated. 4) take your time - If you get in a jamb better to stand back and analyse till you see your way clear I found the DVD's invaluable - I bought both Jeremiah Watts & Dale Harwoods. I think they are well worth it. If the tips they provide saves you wrecking one side of leather they pretty much pay for themselves! I think Steve Brewers all leather ground seat tutorial (pinned at start of saddle construction forum) is a good place to start for building ground seats. I used his techniques on first two saddles and have no complaints. Some of the best advice I have seen is "make it look handmade, not home made"! This info may or may not help you too: My first saddle gallery, My second saddle gallery, my first saddle forum. Good Luck & Happy Building, Ron L

http://www.mcmaster.com/#nails/=12r20yj Here's a link to the page - Thanks for the info CWR! Ron L

Hello, Here is the section I drew... Not sure is this is what you were after. Also it says 1.4" foam - It should be 1/4" of foam R

Hello Keith, Here is a pic showing what I understand of your suggestion to raise the seat ear cut higher up the cantle... Is this correct? Thanks - Ron L

Hello Keith, Thanks for taking the time to put this all down for me! I really appreciate the insights. I knew there was something not 100% on the overall balance and look on this saddle but I couldn't put my finger on it...It was just a sense that something was off visually. On the horn cap - My problem there is compounded by the fact that I cut the horn cap so close to my stitch line on the bottom. I wanted a small as possible horn cap on this rig and I made a poor decision to trim the horn about 3/16" away from the stitch line under the cap. I angled my stitches so I got proper clearance up top but I didn't leave myself enough room to get it properly edged on the underside. Lesson learned there. Burnishing - I will have to give the hardwood stick a try - Also I had forgotten about using bar type glycerin soap - I have some and will incorporate it into my burnishing. In terms of design - I'm glad for the insight on this. It never crossed my mind to consider the fender length/skirt depth ratio previously - This does make sense though. I do create all of my own patterns so I will keep this in mind on saddle #3. In terms of the rear rigging dee - I agree with you and CWR - I wish it was about 3/4" higher - Do you think that would be enough? My theory with rear rigging dees is that I do not want my rear billet to sit on top of the skirts as a good horseman once told me he'd seen skirts deform from pressure there and then sore up horses. What are your thoughts on that? What do you like to see there? On skirt length behind cantle - What is a good overall skirt length? Part of the reason I tried to keep this one shorter is that we do ride some younger horses. However I am wondering if maybe I am misguided in this? I will measure my length there as now that you have pointed it out it does look short! Padded seat - I will make sure to modify my pattern for the next rig and get it wider. Tooling on the cantle dish - I had actually planned to tool this one - However at the last minute I chickened out as I was worried I'd wreck my seat piece! I'm still not very confident with tooling. I'd never thought to tool the cheyenne roll - However looking at your website I see how nice it does look. Guess I need to practice my tooling and build confidence. On the Cheyenne roll - Yes - I tried to get it flatter by working at it and skiving material off the back edge - But I guess I should have got it pulled in tighter which would have helped to fold it down. Out of curiosity - In your view is it acceptable practice to cut a wedge piece out of the cantle back where it creates the foundation of the cheyenne roll to help get it sloped down more? I'm not 100% sure I understand what you mean on the earcuts - I will post a picture to see if I have interpreted what you are suggesting correctly. In terms of the horn wrap - I will use this technique and re wrap the horn on this saddle and the one on my own rig - I do find it annoying to have to pull out slack - Your comments make sense and I will use this method from now on. I have a chinaman - Just haven't been casing my horn wrap at all. And in closing - I find your comments very helpful and not discouraging in any way. My goal is to make good saddles - Not mediocre ones! Your comments will help me build a better balanced, more functional saddle with improved aesthetics on round #3! I'd like to thank you and all others who have taken the time to comment and suggest improvements - This forum has been invaluable to me - I am up in Saskatchewan Canada and there are not a lot of saddle makers nearby to get help from so this forum has made a big difference for me. Ron L

All - I appreciate the kind words! Randy - I do think you are qualified to comment! Yes the latigo hangers are lined - With a 5oz latigo. They were kinda light so I wanted to beef them up. BondoBob - Good idea! I sure like all the information available on this site! That tip you provided will definitely be put to use on the next saddle. It's an area I really need help in. Billy H - For previous experience I have built one saddle and about 8 pairs of chinks. I'm real slow though! This saddle almost took two years. (Big problem is being busy with other stuff). Goldshot - On the horn edging - I agree - I am going to see what I can do to get this looking better! Didn't really notice it until you pointed it out - I'll try and get it smoothed out! The horn wrap - This saddle will be used for roping - We dally and as rope is run the horn wrap tightens up - I leave the tail loose so I can jerk the excess tight. I'd like to have it tucked away somewhere but after roping a few critters there would be slack put into the tail if it was fixed. I like to wrap over the front lip for the simple reason that it helps keep the swell cover from getting so worn out by rope running over it. It doesn't eliminate it but it does help. In terms of the fenders - I totally agree on this too. I wish they were about 2" longer - However this saddle is for my wife and she isn't real tall - The saddle as you see it is set-up for her leg length. If we ever go to sell this thing we may have to provide longer fenders. However I didn't want to make it with longer fenders and have a bunch of bulk under the seat jockey for my wife though... Once again - Thanks for all the tips & input - It is valued! R

Hello All, I have finally finished saddle number 2 - This has been a long project as we moved house twice in the space of time this was built in (Joy of being a house fixer upper type). I would appreciate comments on this saddle - Specifically I am looking for things that I have done in ignorance that are not up to scratch. Helpful criticism is looked for and will be valued! This saddle was built on a Sonny Felkins tree (Quality MFG.), all Hermann Oak leather, Jeremiah Watt hardware, Amish stirrups, and all stainless steel buckles, nails and screws. The seat is an all leather ground seat. Rigging is placed about 7/8 and is flat plate type. Skirts are butterfly with 1" bark tanned shearling. Sewed this up on a Cobra Class 4 sewing machine. Cantle and horn are stitched by hand with an awl and two needles at 6 spi. Not shown is a 40" x 6" rear cinch I built for it too. Glue used was Barge. Hermann Oak leather seemed to have a few 'vein' type markings. Tried to eliminate them but there are a couple on left seat jockey. I still need to get better at burnishing edges. Don't much care for that task. Thanks for viewing these - I look forward to suggestions for improvement. Ron L

Hello Randy, I'm with Oltoot - I really enjoy slick forks and they can be made a little more secure with buck rolls as needed - Also, I've always liked the looks of this saddle by Steve Mason: I think it's been referred to as a 'swade' - Might be a neat consideration. http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=27756&hl=swade#entry174515 Regards, R

Got one side of my rear jockeys tooled up last night. Here is a fuzzy blackberry picture: Tooling is still amateurish but I am slowly getting more comfortable with it. I would appreciate feedback on what I can do to make it better. Thanks, Ron L

Have been working a little on this second rig. Starting to feel like I'm getting some traction. Here it is with Fenders & Stirrup leather assemblies in as well as rear jockeys fitted. The rear jockeys will be filled with floral tooling. The seat has yet to get a 1/8" bead border. Next Step is to tool both seat & jockeys. Ron L

Hello Chris, Sorry for delay in getting this up. Here are a couple pics of the hobbles I built. I changed the pattern after I got these ones made and the final pattern is what I will upload next. The patterns are here: There are two versions - One is a complete pattern - You'll have to have it printed at a professional print shop to be accurate. The others ones are split to print on 8.5" x 11" paper. The buckles I use are these: http://www.longviewleather.com/150-buckle-stainless-steel/ - I buy the 1.5" size. I use 8oz - 10oz Hermann Oak for my hobbles and line them with 6oz - 7oz latigo. I figure that's strong enough. But am open for opinions on that. Any questions let me know. This pattern is something you can tweak to suit your own preference. It should accommodate your typical ranch horse. If you want the proper PDF file of these patterns pm me and I will email it to you. R

Hello Chris - I made my own pattern - I will try to upload it along with pictures...

Finally getting some time to work on this second saddle again...New shop is set-up and I have been able to put in some time. Built these hobbles: Tooled this fender: And finished tooling the skirts for this rig as well as got the horn cap 'n' wrap started: We have been doing a fair bit of riding - Built this breast collar for my first saddle too: Really hoping to have this second saddle done for spring! Cheers, Ron L

Hello Julia, The only thing I can think of is to have the client template the seat in a saddle that they like to ride...That would give you a fairly good idea. If they took one profile template and then two or three cross ways you would have a fairly good handle on the shape they are after. (That is if they have a saddle that they like the seat in already). Ron

Hello KGeorge, I am new to saddle making as well - I had this exact question on my first saddle... Here is the technique I used - Not sure where I picked it up but it seemed to work for me. Hopefully this sketch I made makes sense. Here is a picture of the actual saddle horn... As you can see I didn't make the prettiest job of it however it seems to work & nothing has moved even after roping a few bulls. Its important to really nail that filler piece down good. If I recall correctly I used a piece of 14oz skirting, cased it and hammer jacked it down to about 8 or 10oz. Basically pounded it with a flat faced hammer to compress it and make it firmer. The filler is the only thing besides a bit of glue keeping your horn from rotating when you dally up with something big on the end of your rope. Others will likely have better ideas / techniques and i'd like to hear / see them too... Ron L

As all can tell I have not been posting lately as I have been really busy - Haven't even had time to work on rig #2... Anyhow, I moved back to Saskatchewan and am setting up a new saddle shop in our place here. It's almost done. I'll post pictures as soon as I get it wrapped up. We have been doing lots of riding and have had a chance to go to quite a few brandings as well as pasture rope. It'd been nice to really use the first saddle I built - It seems to work pretty well - Although it could be a little wider in the gullet / hand hole. I have purchased two more trees from Ben Swanke. One is a 3B the other is a wade. The wade is set up a little wider and will be my second saddle.

Randy, As you are aware I am by no means professional - However in my limited experience I have found it beneficial to retain patterns. I made patterns for my first rig out of hard paper from walmart...when it came time to build rig two I was able to use these as a base guideline, incorporate some changes I wanted and come up with a revised pattern far easier than the first round. It has helped me save significant amounts of leather on saddle 2. What I really liked is that I knew from saddle one that there were definite areas I wanted to change - Having the original patterns let me easily trace the old pattern, work out my changes and develop a 'corrected' pattern. I suspect I will never quit correcting my patterns! My plan going forward is to use only one tree maker for consistency and develop two sets of guideline patterns - One for flat plate wade's and one for inskirt rigged wades. Dale Harwood seems to be really pattern oriented and I like the idea he promotes of consistency...His DVD's are well worth watching if you can get ahold of them. What I would like to know is what do makers use for template material? The hard paper I use isn't the best - What stands up better to moist leather and extended use? Ron

Hello Anna, I have included a picture here showing an approximate seat line - I think with the seat installed most of the rubbing issues will be eliminated because the seat jockey will be there. If you make your seat jockeys as deep as I have shown you may not need to add too much to your fender length...And if it was my saddle I would try to wet the skirts / rigging and give it a barrel shape to help it pre-conform to the shape of a horse...I know on the plate rigs I have built that is what I have done. Once everything was solid I wet the rigging plates and worked more curve into them. R

I agree with Keith, Here is my experience: The more educational material you have on hand the better. Each piece will give you perspective that the other does not. DVD's are incredibly valuable - They will help you fill in the blanks. I started with Al Stohlman Books and the Harry Adams book and then part way through my first saddle I purchase both Jeremiah Watts and Dale Harwoods DVD's - I wish I would have bought them both right from day one. The advice they contain will prevent you from making mistakes and wasting expensive Hermann Oak. They will almost pay for themselves in saving you from expensive screw-ups. As Keith says - Saddle making is a dubious hobby - It's expensive, time consuming and at times frustrating. That said if your personality is like mine you will still enjoy it. However be prepared to have some bad days while you wrestle a hunk of Hermann Oak that doesn't want to conform to what you have in mind. That said - Riding and roping out of your own hand made saddle that fits you and the horses you ride is hard to beat! Also - Buy only the best tools - I started with junk, ended up buying good stuff. Bruce Johnson on this site is great to buy from - I've got splitters a round knife and general hand tools from him - All quality, old school tools. Good Luck and looking forward to seeing your progress. R

Good Job Adam! I like the clean overall look of this rig & I think your seat profile from the side view looks good. I believe less rise helps with staying centered - Is that what you find? I'd be interested in more info on this. Anyhow, excellent overall! This site sure is invaluable for us first time makers - Really ups the ante and helps with relevant info on specific issues. Looking forward to seeing more of your work! This saddle of yours inspires me to try and do better on the rig I have underway! Ron L

Thor, I'm no expert but I like to use 3/4" thick wool pads from Reinsman or 5 Star Equine. Sometimes I'll run a Navajo over this if I need a little extra for a narrower horse. This is the 3/4" 5 Start I currently use. It's shaped (or contoured) and I like that - Conforms to a horses back easier. It's also long, probably 33" which works good on ranch saddles with bigger skirts. To some extent I believe multiple layers is a bad thing - Creates shifting - Also, thicker pads often seem like you end up cinching tighter to keep everything solid. Like Bob says if the saddle fits you don't need a pile of pad. I guess I like all natural products - I haven't used neoprene cinches or pads - But the all natural products seem to work and last if you take care of them. R