rdl123
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Everything posted by rdl123
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Centre Fire Rigging
rdl123 replied to quartercircleoveruleather's topic in General Saddlery Discussion
Chance: Check out this link: http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=6655&hl=%2Bcenter+%2Bfire#entry74965 You'll notice Steve Brewer talks about one of the BLM guys roping horses with a 5/8ths rig... What are you planning on for a tree? I'd highly recommend Glenn Christman out of Pincher Creek. Ron L -
I believe I have actually burnished the leather - The door knob bouncer is convex - Next time I will be definitely using the protective leather pad. I have attached pictures for you to look at - Let me know if this looks recoverable. I guess the other question I have is will this affect the ability of the seat to absorb neatsfoot oil? Bob & Goldshot - I appreciate your help on this. Many Thanks, Ron
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I have a question - When I glued my seat in I used a ceramic doorknob bouncer to really press the leather into the cantle face. It left some rub marks - Can anyone comment if these are permanent or if there is a way to minimize them? I will take some pictures. Ron
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Bob: Timberline. Here is the seat fitted. Few things I will do differently next time that's for sure... Still have to glue this rascal in. R
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Randy: Glenn Christman (tree maker) made me aware of this potential issue. The biggest problem is if your cantle is not square it will push you off center when you lope trot etc...I am not sure how common this problem is - When Glenn explained this to me I immediately checked square on the saddle I am building and it was off...Strange thing is I've never heard of checking this in any books or DVD's...Guess it should be common sense to check it but it sure never crossed my mind. I had marked center on my cantle and horn. I marked center on the cantle by coming off of the bars - Not dividing the width of the cantle. From there I used the nail and string method. One from cantle center mark and one from horn center mark. The right side of the tree - The cantle sat further back by probably a good 1/2" off square. I was told to try and get it within 1/8" of square. Luckily I was able to get it bang on... When I have a minute I will take a pic of the leather neck piece I installed to make up for it. Here is a pic showing the measurements I took... Funny thing is - I had noticed previously that when I sat in the saddle I didn't line up with the center line on my ground seat. It always seemed like I was sitting at a minor angle. Anyhow, after the fix If I just jumped up I'd wind up being perfectly centered automatically. On Saturday I fit my seat - Went fairly well - now I just need to glue it in. Will post pics when I take some. Ron
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Thanks Gold Shot: I will try to hide the divider mark - Have also been practising my decorative cuts as well... I have bought a larger lifter and it seems to work a lot better - Last one was so small it kind of got lost...Also lifting the lifter like you mention sure helps too! Anyhow, I am planning of putting my seat in tomorrow. I have watched the Jeremiah Watt DVD's and will use his layout method for putting the seat in - Does anyone have advice for a compete newbie on installing seats? Also, I have the new skirts blocked on - They fit this time and look ok...I will try to post pics for critique on Monday... An interesting thing, I discovered the cantle on my production tree was off square by probably 1/2" - I fixed by adding a chunk of heavy neck and skiving it out till both sides matched. Not much fun - Took me a whole afternoon of carefully checking balance...Anyhow, I am about to order a second tree and this one will come from Glenn Christman out of Alberta. I like the fact that he uses rawhide he personally prepares over factory produced stuff...
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Randy / Harrington - Thanks for compliments - Harrington - Yes, I haven't done decorative cuts yet - Need to study up on them as so far I've never made a decorative cut I liked! Do you have some tips? I need serious help with my tooling - I think what I need to do is spend the time to study Sheridan/floral style carving in detail, get a feel for how it's supposed to flow etc. The slight point to the otherwise round horn is something I picked up from Dale Harwood - He does it to break the monotony of round caps on larger horns - I like it too although I think I'll order my next tree with a Guadalajara style horn... Roughed out the fenders last night and have made patterns for the second set of skirts - I'll cut them to size once they are blocked on tree this time. R
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Randy - I really like the Barry King awl handle - I get my blades from Douglas Tools - Sheridan Leather sells them: Vandy, I believe, is Bob Douglas's daughter and will help you pick which size to get... I have found that the combination of Douglas awl blades and the Barry King handle is very controllable - I purchased the flattened side handle - Gives me a refererence point every time I pick up the awl... One douglas blade has lasted several pairs of chaps, my first saddle project is half done w/it and it is still perfect, just strop the tip once in awhile. Ron L.
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Have been busy with other projects so not much time for this one - However did stamp and install my horn cap last night - Finished at 5.25" dia. R
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I am thinking of going with exposed stirrup leathers on this saddle. Any one have insight in to the pros and cons? I've searched quite a bit and haven't come up with anything definite. My current saddle has exposed stirrup leathers and I have had no issues... Thanks! R.
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Here is this past weekends progress: Swell cover on, hand hole finished and horn capped and wrapped. Horn still requires the final, top piece. Had the horn cover fitting perfectly but when I glued it and then put it on I managed to get it up from the swell a bit... Horn on this tree was 100% flat so I made a 4" circle that skives to zero from middle to give it a dome effect - This is nailed and glued over the horn filler. Also, to all who have helped and given me needed insight and corrections - Thanks very much...I am looking forward to the second saddle project and avoiding mistakes I have made on this one. Ron
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I'd like to know - Do you install your riggings over swell cover or under swell cover?
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Here is a picture of the wear guard I was talking about above. Bob - I'd appreciate your thoughts about this - And, I will definitely be using plugs on saddle #2. rdl
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Bob - I appreciate this insight - Being a complete amateur I was not aware of this - However, set out like you have explained it I can see the issue. I know of a maker in Maple Creek Saskatchewan who rectifies this issue by running a piece of 5oz latigo as a wear guard - I hadn't realized why he did this until now...It is easily replaceable and obviously he does this so it takes the wear - Not the rigging plate. I think I will do the same for this saddle. I will try to find a photo of the wear guard I am taking about... And, thanks Bob for the information - Proves that no matter how much you study this, there is always more information and tips to be had! Ron
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Ron: Thanks for the compliments and for the tips...I'd read in Al Stohlman's books about the rigging plate plugs but when I watched Dale Harwoods DVD's I noticed he didn't use them - However, on saddle 2 I will use plugs...I think even just from an aesthetic standpoint... That rigging plate you show - Do you use that in flat plate rigs or for in skirt riggings? Nice clean looking plate. Ron L
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Randy: What style of saddle do you plan to make for saddle #2? Who do you use for trees? I just ordered the Jeremiah Watt DVD's by the way (from country supply). Should be here in a couple weeks... Adam: The border stamp is just a tandy stamp - It seems to work... The basket weave is a barry king stamp, the 1/*" bead is a Barry King push beader - Use that in conjunction with a push beveler I picked up from Bruce Johnson. I've done a lot of hand stitching on chaps and chinks too - Good practice for saddle making. I also built a new rear cinch for my current saddle - Just wanted to make darn sure I had the patience to sew 7 linear feet by hand through heavy skirting leather before I up and started a saddle project. However, I've been thinking pretty hard a about a sewing machine too - What I have concluded is that there are two good options - Buy a Chinese built machine for about $2000.00+ from techsew or Leightons or similar or save up little longer and get a Pearson #6 for around $3000.00 - Apparently those Pearsons do a beautiful job and are simple enough to run...I know Steve Mason uses or has used one...and his work always looks perfect. I think that's the route I eventually want to go (unless I happen across something used for a great deal) For now though I'm going to be hand sewing... Ron
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Here are some pics of the rigging plate all sewed up... Going to put second plate together this Saturday hopefully. I hand sew @ only 5 stiches per inch - I figure I'll get good at that and then bump up to 7 or 8 per inch.
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Bob: Thanks for that! Much appreciated, Ron
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Adam: I live real close to the border and have a buddy just south of the line that let's me ship stuff to his place. Basically it'll ship there and the cost is minimal because it stays in the states. Coming up though the border, sometimes they make you pay GST & duty, other times the guy'll just wave you through - It's real random.. I am starting to think that investing in the Jeremiah Watt DVD's would be worth my while. That's one thing Dale Harwood doesn't go into a lot of detail on - Hide layout... Sure be interested to see some pictures of you rig Adam... R
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Adam: Yep, discovered that my layout skills really need work...by the time I am done this saddle Ill have gone through 4 hides which I know is way over what should be doable. However, as I am making my own patterns, when I rough cut I am oversizing fairly heavy - That won't be necessary the next time around as I will have hardboard patterns that will be very close to what I want... Also, next time I won't have to make two set's of skirts! The other thing is, I cut my rigging liner leathers out of fairly good hide instead of running them into the flankier parts of the hide. Figured it was worth it as this saddle will be with me for a while. I just bought a piece of 13-15oz HO from http://www.montanaleather.com Talked to Jamie. They are out of Billings MT. I would be interested to know how many professional saddle makers can get a complete saddle out of two hides...And would that include stirrup leathers too? R
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Adam: Thanks for the heads up - I called Ken and it looks like they won't be bringing in anymore of the 13-15oz HO - Guess I'll call up Sheridan leather and try and get a side from them. Too bad about them closing - Ken is a great guy to deal with... R
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Here is a picture of the first flat plate I have put together - It still needs to be sewed up. Still need to makes the right side plate - Maybe this Saturday... I've ordered more Hermann Oak from Ken over @ Caledon so that will allow me to cut new skirts. If anyone knows of a good used sewing machine for saddle work I am definitely interested. I enjoy hand sewing, however, in view of efficiency I do want to pick up a machine at some point... R
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Goldshot: Thanks for the help on this - I have decided that I am definitely re-making the skirts - I went through my leather last night and do not have enough left so definitely will re-order a side of HO. You said you keep your billet fold off of the horse - How far from the skirts is the bottom of your rear rigging ring? Also, Troy West, Steve Mason & Steve Brewer - Pretty sure I've read/re-read everything they've posted on here!! They are definitely inspiring. Steve Brewer - I used his tutorial for my ground seat - It worked out well! Anyhow - Appreciate the time you've taken out of your day to respond to my problems - I will re-make these skirts and use your idea of cutting the skirts large and finishing once blocked - This'll be a sure fire way to get them right - Should've done it in the first place - I just had concerns with getting both sides identical... so I figured I'd pre-cut. rdl
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Goldshot: I am very inclined to agree with you - Seeing as this saddle should last a long time I'd like to get it as close to 'right' as I can. Do you have a depth you typically strive for at the point of the rear rigging? For $200.00 I can get another side of HO - Money well spent when I consider that this saddle should be the last I every personally will need. (providing that it proves to be functional) My current saddle measures 7" from where the cantle runs into the bars to the outside edge of the skirt... Thanks for your help on this, rdl
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Thanks Aurelie: Also, I do have enough room still to move the rear plate up about 3/4" and it will still be off the bars - This will help the aesthetic issue...My jockeys can swoop down, cover rivets in rear plate, and be off of skirt line by about 1" or so... Anyone else have thoughts on this? rdl