Timbo

Now if I could lace like that I wouldn't worry about making a split!!!! Nice job!!! Know of any tutorials on that?? Tim

I've always heard it called a Montana shell pattern. Tim ps..........Bruce, can you load a pic of one of the fenders??

#9 or #12?? I need to buy some and didn't know what size most saddlers use. Or do you use different sizes in different places?? Tim

I also use nylon and like them alot. I've never had one slip and also don't use the buckle tongue. I think they are way easier to tie and snug up and less bulk in the rigging. When you have to saddle 20 horses a day you can really appreciate them. tim

Sure will. They are made by a company named Texsport, actually they are just the importers. They are made in China. To save some time, I have, in the past, contacted them and they will not sell direct and they are already in the canvas cover and boxed when they hit the states, so you can't by them bare........I used to buy them at Wal-Mart but they quit selling them. Now I order them from Campmor.......here's the link http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___21917 Tim

I wasn't planning on putting a dally wrap on the horn. Not saying I won't, just not planning on it at this point. If my horn comes out crappy looking I will for sure do a wrap on it!! Tim

Very cool indeed!!!! I like everything about it. It has a style all its own. Love the loop seat and high back cantle without cheyenne roll. The combinations you chose for this saddle work very well in my opinion. Good job and very original. Thanks for posting. Tim

Looks nice to me. Plus side is that it looks like it has been taken pretty good care of during its life. I like the fact that none of the leather appears to be curled. Does any of the leather appear dry?? Any cracks on the surface of the leather?? I don't know much about the manufacturer but it appears to be well made from what I can see. Is it a wood/rawhide tree?? If it is solid with no major defects in the leather or tree it is definitely worth 275. I've seen lots worse go for lots more. Tim

I've made lots of leather covered canteens and I sew the covers on tight. So it doesn't breathe by any means. I also fill them with ice and water and go out into 90 degree heat and have never had a problem with condensation. Of course this is all at altitude of 5000 to 11000 feet and virtually no humidity. But I have dunked them in the springs to fill them and gotten them totally saturated and the same when I get caught in the rain. I have never had a problem with the tooling being compromised. I do cover them with 8-9 oz vegtan. I sew the cover half way around get it soaking wet and force the canteen up into it and finish sewing it. By the time it has dried It shrinks down some and is really tight. I think the trick is to make them fit tight in the beginning when they are wet and take alot of the stretch out of them. It will lose a little of the sharpness of the tooling during this process but it is to be expected, especially if the tooling goes over or comes close to an edge that it is being stretched around. As far as mold goes, I finish most of mine with Bee Naturals Rudy's. It has a mold inhibitor in it but I think that after awhile the mold protection would be negligible. But like I said earlier, up here with low humidity it isn't a problem and it might be at a lower elevation with a high humidity level. I've included a pic of what my canteens look like just so you can see what I do. Hope this helps. Tim .......and by the way, I only use plastic canteens that are BPA free. I won't use aluminum due to not liking the taste of aluminum and the possibility that drinking from aluminum as been linked to alzheimers.

Glad to hear that is is not a necessity. So from what I am taking from this the smaller the horn is the less likely it will be that I have to split the swell cover. Now for the next question: What is the best way to keep the horn as small as possible?? Guess it depends on how big the horn is to begin with, but I am going to try to keep it as small as possible..........any tips?? thanks, Tim

Those look great Don!!! The edges look fantastic............perfectly edged and slicked. Gotta love perfect round edges!!! Great color too. I have made alot of spur straps that are darker around the edges and lighter in the middle like these. It is a great effect. Good job!!! tim

Is there a way to do this without a seam?? All the ones I seem to see have a seam sewn or laced up on the seat side of the swell cover. Is it just a matter of getting enough stretch out of the leather or is it just physically impossible to do?? Any tips or tricks to this?? Tim

I always figured you could make a cool stirrup leather stretcher out of one of these. You could sure crank 'em hard with this. Tim If it doesn't show up it is a trailer tongue jack from harbor freight. jack.bmp jack.bmp

My vote is no on back cinches, or belly bands. My opinion is only if you rope do you need one. I ride in the mountains and do not use one. Tim

The only thing I see them used on is pack horses. That's all we use them for at the ranch I work for. None of the guides use anything other than just a normal cinch and breast collar when they go into the mountains. This past summer I learned the hardway about getting a "good deal" on a cinch/breast collar set. (note to self: spend lots on a cinch) tim

That is what I was thinking on the slots in the skirts as well. (that it has the potential for damaging the skirt) I think I'll skip putting on any attachment points for a breast collar and just use the rigging rings like I always have. I have never used a britchen set up and don't plan on it. I also never use a belly band in the mountains. Both of these have the potential to cause a wreck in my opinion. The bushwhackin we have to do sometimes gets pretty treacherous and I don't need extra stuff to get caught on the rocks and trees or for the horse to get tangled in. I'm with you on the thought of riveting all 3 layers together. The tops would always stay in the same spot and adjustment will be done at the bottoms. Don't think I'd like the fender attached to the skirt. Seems like it would impede movement like you said. I've never seen that set up before. tim

Thanks for all the help guys. One last question that nobody caught..........what about the "D" holes cut in the skirt for the breast collar rigging to attach to?? Tim

Once again Troy........WOW!!!! Beautiful saddle, the tooling is world class as is the whole!!!!!!! Thank you very much for posting. It gives us all high aspirations!!!! Tim

That's what I use for my tools too!! They work out really well and have plenty of room and the drawers are felt lined. You could make your own but sounds like you are kinda like me.........don't really need another project, just a way to be organized to finish all the other projects. tim

That looks really great!! Is the diamond stamp a Watt tool?? I recently got some of the Horseshoe brand buckles and conchos and they are impressive to say the least and they look great on the saddle. The rough out looks good and I for one, like the color it is right now. Good job. Tim

I'm also thinking that I could tear drop or taper the top into the stirrup leather so that the pinchpoint would be eliminated. Or what about just making the fender shorter so it doesn't come up so high and cause the problem?? If I wore my tall boots all the time I would just skip fenders altogether, but they are lousy in the mountains. Any fender suggestions?? tim

So as far as the picture goes, you are saying these fenders would need to match the shape of the bottom bar right up to the cantle point?? So that there are no gaps between seat and fender?? I can see how that would work. Also when you adjust them the top of the stirrup leather and fender will need to stay in the same place with all the adjustment taking place on the stirrup end. Right?? Half double stirrup leathers is a new one on me....I thought these would just be considered half leathers. But I'm learning. Thanks for the advice Greg, it is very much appreciated as is all the advice I get from this forum on a regular basis. Tim

Don't have any of it........but if you post a pic of the finish you are after I bet someone could identify something else that will be really close. Then again monitor colors vary but it couldn't hurt. Tim

Man I hate to say it but you got ripped off!!! But in order to help you out I'll buy it from you for what you spent and you'll be able to save face and feel better about yourself!!!! Seriously though......GREAT SCORE!!!!!! Guess I'm going to have to stay up late and bird dog eBay all night!!! Good deal dude!!! you should be very happy with this bargain of the century. Way to shop!!!! I wish there was a way that you could stream the new eBay listings, so as they are listed they scroll across your screen. But it would probably just be a blur now that I think about it. The listing notifications are usually too late and many times are sold by the time you get the email. Once again.......GREAT DEAL!!!!!!!! tim

Thanks for all the replies. Never thought about it but Darc is right, it would be hard as hell to rivet all of that together on the tree. As for the rigging I had already spotted that conflict as well. I don't know why the rigging is so low or so far back. It is bordering on being a center fire rig. I had some experience with a clients center fire rig this summer and on our barrell bellied horses it moved all over the place. Every time I turned around the saddle was sitting up over the horses shoulders and after one long downhill section he was actually riding the horses neck. But it was his great uncles saddle...blah blah blah. If it had been my decision it would have stayed at the ranch and never seen a trail. But anyway, yeah, the rigging needs moved up and forward. As for the stirrup leathers and fender. I'll rivet them as such but probably also sew the leathers to the fender as well. I also agree that the fender top could be a pinch point on a very tender spot of anatomy so I'll have to put some thought into a redesign on that as well. I guess just moving them lower would also do the trick, which would also mean to make them shorter too I suppose. I've thought long and hard about the saddle pocket idea but I have a tooling idea for the back of the cantle that I want to do really bad. I am going to be making a removable cantle bag/saddle bag setup to put on the saddle I'm going to make. After getting my "petroleum" cantle bag and saddle bags ripped off and ruined this summer I have some ideas of what I am NOT going to do anyway. Thanks for all the thoughts and ideas guys........they are greatly appreciated. Without all the knowledge from the saddlers on this forum I would not even attempt making a saddle, but I'm about to jump in with both feet, so expect LOTS more questions. Keep those ideas rolling. Also what do you think about the "D" cutout in the skirts for hooking the breast collar to??? Good or Bad??? I can see up sides and down sides to it. Up is the weight savings.........down is the damage it could do to the skirt in a wreck. Then again once the rigging ring is properly located why not just hook to it?? Sorry if this seems rambling but I'm thinkin out loud........with my fingers. Any more thoughts or concerns on this saddle let me know. Thanks again for all the input. Tim .......and I like the idea of the keeper loop on the stirrup leathers too. I might see what I can come up with in that respect. and by the way Dave the riding I do is as a trail guide/wrangler in the summers in the Sangre de Christo mountains of Central Colorado. (ok, now I'm bragging) Which is the purpose of the saddle I am going to build. Going to try to keep it light weight and comfy. But mostly leaning to light weight since I got by with a very uncomfortable saddle all summer. It will not be possible for me to build something as uncomfortable as that one.