Ole South

I've used cloth needles in veg tan before when I wanted nice pretty holes. A cheap experiment in cosmetics for a limited run.

Are you looking at the one in Dartmouth or East Hampton? Don't see any 201-2's for sale in your area but there is a 17-23 you might talk the price down on. And I see what may be a 16-88/188 in Woburn. Both appear to have tables and motors.

Same needle system as 16-188,yes? http://m.ebay.com/itm/Organ-Sewing-Needle-16x63-2077-16x113-TFx63-for-Singer-Model-16-188-Rex-26-188-/251230872942

Side by side, I've found the 201-2 much pickier about thread and less able to handle as wide a variety of heavier material. The 201-2 has hands-down the best stitch of the old Singers. Same motor different power trains. It was the "Tailor's Standard" of home machines. The 15-91 was known as the "Farmer's Wife" of home machines due to its versatility and ruggedness. I've had both, sold the 201,still own and use the 15-91 for those reasons. But to speak to the question: $150 for either machine in working order with a case or in a console is reasonable. You are more likely to find a good 15-91 at that price (or cheaper) for the very reason Al has mentioned. You don't NEED a console or case for either of these machines to sew on them (tho on certain few 15-91's you may need to shim the back of the casting's "feet" with a piece of leather or thick rubber on a benchtop) but getting one helps. A lot of tailors and seamstress' built their businesses on the 201. I've had both in my shop at the same time, were I sewing fabric, I chose the 201; leather or suede the 15-91 gave me better and more consistent results. These are "low shank" presser foot machines. A Teflon or roller foot might help in a marginal case but neither will make either into a walking foot machine. Nor will the Singer "Walking foot/Pattern Matcher" accessory you can still find.

Old Singers are very photogenic.... you can't trust a photo of an old Singer to determine condition . These are great starter machines... for fabric! They ARE pretty unbreakable tho. There are tons of 99k's out there. The Spartan (as I understand) was an entry level machine that sold for slightly less than a 99 (which is the 3/4 sized cousin of the venerable Model 66) and without the name. Most of the parts are interchangeable.

Yeah, what The Wiz said! But don't stop looking for one. It's one of the most robust and versatile of the home straight stitchers. You'll max out at about 6 1/2 sti and anything heavier than 4oz is gonna lift the pressure foot unless you use a huge diameter needle (book says it'll take up to a 21 needle but 18 is the largest I've found) and forget anything heavier than 69 thread but all that said, it's one of the cheapest ways to get started sewing suede and light upholstery leathers. If you get one that runs well(most do with very little work) keep it!!! It's a great "goto" for any heavy fabric work you might need. Parts are cheap and easy to come by for now. You can learn a lot on one of these machines even with its limitations. Singer commercial machines are done for and I hear the home machines are next but these have survived 50+ years and will serve you well for a long time to come (unlike the home machines they've sold for the last 20).

Thread's a little lost in those holes but congrats on getting the old girl going! It is rewarding working on the old Singers and it looks like you can convert yours back to treadle immediately after the zombie apocalypse hits.

Some of those are really just spats. They lace on or around your existing boot much like the WWI Calvary spats do. Easy way to be comfortable while (Larp/SCA/Civil War) recreating what ever era you choose. Lots of ways to "antique" them. Get em wet, beat em with rope and chains, wad them up and rough em on concrete or 60 grit sand paper... basically abuse the material you use, then get creative with dye and finishes. or visa-versa.

Veedub3, (option 1) if you bore the center out leaving a 3/8 - 1/2" bottom we'll have to make a spacer and/or leave a shoulder inside to contain the shot/BBs/lead sinkers and keep the head centered. Or (option 2) you could drill a series of holes almost the length of the head equally spaced inside the circumference and fill each using a fender washer to cap the top. Or (option 3) drill like option 1 and fill with shot and epoxy around the metal shaft. Personally I like the shot loose inside the weighted mallets I've made. Thanks for the picture I was wondering how those were assembled!

Half the joy of tools are in the making. Tool or project.

www.amazon.com/Wooden-Leathercraft-Carving-Leather-Cowhide/dp/B00PY24OQK www.ebay.com/itm/Strengthen-PE-Wooden-Material-Leather-Cutting-Hammer-Craft-Stamping-Tools-Set-/121585628994 www.ebay.com/itm/Leather-Stamping-DIY-Tools-Set-Craft-Tool-For-Leather-Cutting-Tools-Hammer-US/141495177407?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D28772%26meid%3D2bf4876311c24d728c82f11951ab40cd%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D121585628994&rt=nc The wooden handled ones are 14-15oz. The aluminum handles are about a pound (I've seen these for $12 + free shipping). I was thinking of getting a wooden one and filling it with lead shot. Deadblow mallet heh.

Yep Singer 15-91=domestic machine, I only mentioned it as a reference. Going by Toledo Sewing chart Http://www.tolindsewmach.com/thread-chart.html The Adler + 23/160 needle should handle 207 Tkt15 thread for occasional use. 22/140 and 138 Tkt20 and 16/100 #69 Tkt40 would be my more common setup. For me, using 207 thread would be entirely cosmetic. I'm not planning on doing 3/8" stacks of veg tan on this machine. Thanks for your knowledge of these machines. It's a valuable resource.

So Vertical/Horizontal is how the hook itself is oriented. A Patcher or 15-91 is a Horizontal hook and a drop in bobbin is gonna be a vertical hook... got it! 160 would get me to 207 thread... that's all I need for now. This machine sews great on short runs with a 16/100 needle and #92 bonded poly or nylon thread through chrome, suede and 4/5oz veg. Waiting on other needles to arrive to test them. As far as needle bar height adj. Is that USAPR link above a fair guide for any machine? If sew (<-- ha, see the pun there?!!?) then my needle bar is too high by about 2mm. The Adler Service book only says: "Loosen screw o and adjust the height of the needle bar accordingly." I don't see what "accordingly" is. I am still not comfortable with the loop pulling tight around the basket BEFORE it reaches halfway around. This appears to be a take-up arm timing issue... any thoughts?

Thanks all! I assumed horizontal meant the bobbin assy is oriented horizontally and the hook path rotates like a dinner plate. Vertical like a wall clock. I'm guessing this is wrong. My hook is the same as Alesandro's in. "Adler 267 Problems" As far as parts.... it's only a couple washers and a screw. But coming from a technical service background.... multiple sourcing is a blessing, especially with offshore units. It's always good to know you have a backup.

Thanks Gregg, do you stock parts?

Horizontal hook. How do you date the Adlers? Simply pre and post DA? Thanks Trox

Found some 134-35 (16/100) needles locally today. Re-timed the Adler with the correct needle and even though the loop still goes snug at 4 o'clock with #92 thread ...it sews. The hook lines up only 1 or 2mm below the top of the scarf; that seems kinda high to me.. I've got size 22 and 23 needles coming; I'm guessing I'll still have the same problem with larger diameter thread. I found this while looking for an alternative method of setting needle bar height (the Adler Service Book is painfully vague as to where exactly the hook should line up in reference to the needle eye) : http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0CCgQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.usapr.com%2Ffiles%2FPosts%2F1%2Ftiming.pdf&ei=P0v-VPL3F8q_ggShv4DwAg&usg=AFQjCNFGsnjO4nocYzDhlhRbQJ6J6Z70qA&sig2=p7G4DNISiXTkkBSyCtGfEA&bvm=bv.87611401,d.eXY It doesn't reference a specific machine model but the pictures appear to be a Singer. 'Think this would work as a generic adjustment?

Don't punch or awl too far ahead of yourself... your holes close up. Last time I handsewed suede I had good luck with one of those Hand Stitching crimp type Punches. Only did 5 or10 ahead of the needle. The old black Singers do well with suede too, but you'll only get at best 6spi from a 66,99k,201 or 15-91. Most times that's fine for a napped leather.

Trox, I've started a thread for my Adler http://leatherworkers.net/forum/index.php?showtopic-62230 Yeah, that was the second part of the original problem but after removing the hook and cleaning all the grime away, the opener/lifter began working properly. Looks like the previous owner was trying to use and gave me the wrong needles for the machine.

Does this machine have a needle guard adjustment? Double checked the bobbin lifter gap? Ooops... old thread. What fixed it?

I don't think this machine has ever been set up right. Too little usage wear. What IS worn are timing path screw heads!! The Adler service book doesn't make sense. It has you set the hook to needle timing FIRST. Then needle bar height. If loop timing is based on stroke vs loop length I don't see how this works. There is a timing ring machined into the lower part of the needle bar that is never referenced anywhere in the Service Book. I'm wondering if the GK373 is different somehow. SB doesn't include the GK373 as one of the many subclasses. I found an old one page brochure from Keystone for the GK but can't date it. The DA website only has a single page brochure that identifies the GK373 as an upholstery machine. All the other 273 modules have at least 3 pages. I'm using 138 thread and the thinner needle sews worse. I think your right. Until needle bar length based on needle bar height + needle length is set properly... this machine will never sew right. Probably why it has so little use. Btw, SB has Vertical and Horizontal hook timing ref. figures are mixed up, both in German and English. But it says to rotate the "large" gear to time the hook. I can't get it to move on the main drive shaft when both set screws are loosened nor can they be easily removed. I can loosen the smaller gear on the hook shaft to change hook/needle timing but those screws can't be removed easily either and it doesn't spin smoothly on its shaft! I fear people may have buggered up the shafts and screws trying to make this piglet sing! :\

Gahh, needle systems... so far every time I think I have a handle on them I find I don't. So, DPx35, 134-(x??)35 and 135x17?!!? I have on-hand: 135x16DIA, DPx16DIA, 125/20PD and 135x16DIA, DPX16DIA 180/24 and 135x17, DPx17 130/21 and 135x17, DPx17 90/14 *Sigh* The 180's were what the previous owner was trying to use, probably why he'd only used the machine 5 or 6 times. I'll order some needles and start over. Are the 135x16 (DPX16) longer than the 134-35 (DPx35)? btw, Trox indicated he's used 180's intermittently in his Adler (if I've read his post right) http://leatherworker.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=41621 (I sure wish I could paste a url on this forum.) Thanks Const!

I could use some help sorting the timing/setup on my Adler 267-373GK. I picked it up used but it has little noticeable wear, The hook and basket are snug with virtually no play. The needle bar is tight and the bed only shows some scissor rash, no feed path paint wear. I've been working on getting it timed correctly. The manual states the hook should be centered on needle at 1.8mm - 2.0mm (depending on subclass) rise after BDC. This doesn't come close to matching Constabulary's 1.6mm above the needle eye (hook too high). I get random skipped stitches with book settings but no drops with Constabulary's timing. The needle does barely deflect as the hook shield passes but is within specs for needle/hook spacing. Unfortunately, all I have are 180/24 needles but the forums indicate this needle will work in this machine and I don't want to move the hook assy until things are resolved. Okay finally, here is what I think the problem is. I get serious loop resistance about 4 o'clock on the bobbin case (needle is 12 o'clock) after the hook catches the thread. After carefully watching and comparing a couple machines it appears the thread take up arm is rising too soon after hitting it's lowest point. This pulls the thread tight before passing the apex(?) of the bobbin case arc i.e. 4 o'clock instead of 6 or 7 o'clock, The loop flows easily and smoothly around the bobbin case on all my other machines. What determines take up arm timing? Needle bar height? Am I on the right track here or out in the weeds? thanks

Sailrite/Thompson PW-301 here. Bought a spare presser feed foot and ground and polished the teeth about half way off; then knocked the sharp edges off the feed dogs with a diamond file and it does great on chrome but you have to watch the presser foot pressure on veg tan. But seriously, once you've dressed a new LS(x) up with everything you need to do leather you've pretty much paid for a decent table machine. So unless you need the portability of a carry around machine do your homework. I got the Thompson 301 because: 1. NOS (originally sold in 1997 never used) 2. Didn't think I had room for another bench/sewing table (some creative reorganizing proved that wrong) 3. Great price for a fully decked out machine (Monster Wheel, base and binder attachment, all I've added is a spare foot and a thread stand) I will say this; it's a good beginner leather machine. If you've never used a sewing machine nor sewn leather on a machine you can't go more simply. They're like your first swivel knife... if you stick with it... you're gonna get a better one!

I just wish the timing procedures were easier to follow :'( They seem to intermix the sub classes a lot.