UKRay

It is currently 10.30pm here Tex and I'm enjoying the company of my friend Jose Cuevera... Cheers! Okay, ebay are hardly Saints, they are simply a bunch of corporate suits doing what corporate suits do. Trying hard to shaft the rest of the world and retain their life on Easy Street... I don't even think that is up for discussion. I might take issue with them being undehanded or decptive as they have made it quite clear what they are doing. Okay, they may have been 'economical' with the truth about why they have made payPal mandatory but I don't think there is a law anywhere in the world that says you have to badmouth your own business. Hey, there are plenty of folk all too ready to shout about anything that looks a little sniffy! Safe transactions - hmmmm. I can see where you are coming from here. I don't have any problems paying cash but I have to say that PayPal has made it very easy and very safe for me to trade with folk in the US. Why would they care? Good question - I think that comes under the heading of corporate social responsibility. They can't be seen by the community to making a fortune without making it obvious that they are protecting the people who use their service. Sadly, not everyone is like you, Tex. A lot of people are, frankly, very vulnerable to internet fraud. They don't understand that there are just as many - probably more - wicked people online than there are in their own Main Street. These same poor suckers wouldn't walk around waving a wad of $100 bills but they are quite happy to give their bank details to anyone that asks for it. Those are the folk that benefit from PayPal - not guys like you. I don't even think it is an issue of liability. They have been taking eBay fraud very seriously for quite a while. I was ripped off by a guy a while back (more than three years ago) but because I paid with PayPal I got all my money back - I can't argue with that kind of protection. If they can make money and still cover my ass I'm happy for them to do it Firearms issues are another story and, like you, I feel they have gone waaaaay too far. However, as a British citizen living with some of the world's most draconian gun laws, I think you guys still have it pretty good. You still have the right to bear arms don't you? When my license came up for renewal I didn't have a specific reason for owning guns so the British police confiscated all my firearms and wouldn't even give me a receipt. I have been trying to recover them ever since. That was ten years ago. eBay's attitude is just a reflection of the 'nanny state' that wants to tell us how to live our lives. Short of leaving the country or living outside the law I can't see a way round that. Enough said, I need another Marguerita...

Josh, I have just run a couple of searches for belts a little like yours - you may find this interesting: RANGER STYLE BELT: Dye colors=Black., Brown., Tan, Natural-Oil. (a.) #6-7, PLAIN (no tooling), Body width choice =1-1/4" or 1-1/2", billets 3/4" or 1". Single Layer =$100.00 Lined and Machine Stitched = $140.00 ...and this was not the only one I found. I'll be honest and say this belt looked very nice indeed but it won't be long before your belts look even better. Get those stitch sizes sorted like Bruce suggested and it will make a world of difference. You could be charging at least $100 for a belt like yours if it were finished well and promoted properly. You might also want to look around and see if you are paying a bit more than you need to for materials. That sounded like a lot of money to me. Can anyone in the US comment on this please as I'm not in touch with pricing over the water. If I'm right and you can reduce your costs substantially, you can't help but make more money. I suspect that, as you are just getting into your stride, you may be buying small quantities and paying a premium for it. Is there anyone else you know who would split an order or two with you so you both save money? Regarding the 'made in China' thing, once again, we are all competing in a global marketplace. There are some fantastic leatherworkers in China - just look at those amazing carvings we have seen from John Barton's guys and Mr Bobocat - and they are all selling on eBay too. Their overheads are less than ours so they can sell more cheaply. We just have to make our goods more desirable and work harder to market to a homeland audience. Sell US made products to an American audience and be proud of your work - it will do you more good than worrying about being undercut by 'sweatshop' labour in China. Why not make a big thing of Handmade in the USA - I'll bet there are enough patriots that will buy your work on the strength of that alone. Most important of all, never stop trying to improve your work. Every time you improve your skills it will become easier to sell what you make. Enough - I have rambled on far too long. Good luck Josh, I enjoy watching your leatherwork develop. R.

As an ex-single parent, I'm a tad concerned that you haven't even come close to the size of bag you will need for a day out... I'm not going to go into the details but that lovely natural coloured leather and white stitching may come to grief too.. Great job though and, as I thought that was machine stitching, I have to say you have my respect too. One suggestion - make yourself a nice waterproof bag and stitch that inside somewhere to keep the icky stuff from the rest... have fun - kids are great but I prefer 'em when they stop having a loud noise at one end and a complete lack of responsibility at the other!

Y'know Josh, you are a very kind and generous man but I wonder if you are undervaluing yourself and your leathergoods. That hair-on belt you made a few days ago was just as good as most I've seen. The quality of the leather looked excellent and you worked hard at it. In my eyes, that makes it a thing of value. Would you mind telling me how much you value that belt at? The reason I ask is that Bree made a good point a few weeks back when she talked about people failing to recognise the worth of their work. It would be good to hear what other people feel about this. I believe eBay is a great place to sell but IMHO people really need to pitch their stuff really well to get the best price for it. if you don't have confidence that your stuff is worth the money then perhaps you won't write a convincing listing. Hence you won't get the price you really want or need. Yes, this is patently unfair because someone like me who makes their living from writing technical and commercial copy (advertising, marketing and suchlike) obviously has more experience in writing sales copy so their (possibly lower grade stuff) stuff may be inclined to sell faster than if a person who makes really excellent stuff simply lists what they are trying to sell. Would it help if we all put together some tips and hints for ebay selling and posted them in the marketing section? At the very least it would give a starting point for discussion about the best way to work eBay and come out of it with a profit. Despite the negative feeling about 'the bay' I don't think this situation is entirely eBay's fault. They have simply followed the trail to the money. By this I mean that the big bucks on eBay are being made by those people who sell thousands of cheap products and allow eBay to scoop a chunk off the top of their profit. eBay are simply led by market forces. Look at the businesses that do well on eBay - packaging material suppliers make a small fortune - now I wonder why? I have an eBay shop and it does okay. Nothing even slightly spectacular but enough to make it worthwhile continuing to pay the bills, but I am already looking for more exciting ways of selling my stock online. - I don't know what they are yet but I'm confident they will turn up as people find better ways to use the internet. Just keep looking and let me know if you find 'em before me!

I've sat back and watched this thread with interest, but it seems that some people are missing an important point. For most people, eBay serves an important function. It allows them to get rid of stuff they don't want without having to try too hard to sell it. Folk simply put their junk on 'the bay' and watch it trundle away down the road a week or so later whilst they are jingling a few coins in their pockets. Now that is fine if what you are selling is junk and you are happy to get whatever you can for it. A few cents/dollars either way don't make much difference. The critical issue comes when you want to sell something you value for the 'market price'. If you set up a stall on a street corner or open a high street shop then you will get the 'market price' you choose because you are setting the trading rules. If you put goods on consignment in another traders store you make less money because they are setting the rules. If you don't like their rules then you don't have to sell through them, you can always open your own store or sell elsewhere. If you do choose to open your own store you may not sell as much but sure as hell your percentages will be higher when you do make a sale - but just remember the overheads... it costs a lot of money to operate a store of any kind - online or bricks and mortar. It may be that the only way you can make enough profit to stay afloat is by increasing the volume of the goods you sell - more stuff through the door equals more profit. Likewise, if you put your goods on eBay, of course you make less because - guess what - eBay sets the rules. These rules favour those who make lots of low value, high volume sales (I believe they call them Power Sellers) because that is the direction eBay likes to travel. Lots of sales equal lots of commission. The amounts of money involved are often quite low but they represent a high percentage of the transaction value. Therefore, if you sell high value goods (saddles, bags and other well made leathery stuff) they feel entitled to make the same percentages from you - and why not? It is their store after all. The answer may simply be to walk away and find another route to market that pays enough to make it worthwhile. Standing around and whining about an organisation that is making honest money is simply sour grapes. If you want to make money from your leatherwork then best get off your backsides and start looking for ways to promote it to a wider audience. eBay isn't the only way to sell. On a personal level, I an happy to deal through eBay as long as I make a respectable profit. It allows me to sell my stuff in a worldwide marketplace and I simply accept that I will make more money when I sell elsewhere. I won't cut off any of my routes to market because that would be stupid. I simply make sure the things I sell on eBay carry a high enough percentage to pay the charges. Just good business practice... The PayPal monopoly isn't an issue for me either. It is simply a legitimate business expense. I always sell on a fixed price, buy now basis and so, just like with shipping charges, the purchaser picks up the tab for the convenience of buying on eBay. They also pay a premium for being able to pay me with Paypal. I don't put it in those terms on the listings but you don't have to be a genius to work out that somebody somewhere is paying for the convenience PayPal and eBay offer - and it isn't me! I haven't said anything here you don't already know and have no intention of getting into an arguement with anyone about it. I just wanted to have my two cents - this is an open forum after all! Have a good week.

I'm a technical writer when I can't find anything else more exciting to do.... I really ought to get a proper job but I'm far too idle!

It's ought to be the brains, Terry <grin!> However, I agree that, in this instance, the alum soak would be the best and safest option. I dunno about queasy though - this lot are pretty bombproof and have you seen what kids eat these days... it's enough to make you shudder! Thanks for the links guys. If nyone has any more hints I'd be very pleased to hear them. Ray

I was planning on getting the kids to do the job themselves - having explored the task in depth in advance. I have a source of good fresh rabbits and i thought it might be an idea to get them to skin the bunny, eat the rabbit and tan the skin... am I being ambitious? Maybe, but they are pretty good kids and I think they would think hard about what they are doing and talk about this for years. This will be part of a woodland skills weekend that is intended to teach them something more useful than carving their names on the trees in the local park... We have all kinds of good people offering to help and I was asked to do something with leather. yes, i could have done tooled keyfobs, but this is a lot more fun! Thanks for the link, Tasha. I'll let you know how I get on...

Absolutely fascinating!

Josh, that is a superb belt. It is hard to believe that such a short time ago you were just starting out. What a great achievement, fella. Congratulations! (got any of that hair-on left... I wouldn't mind one like that for myself!) <grin!> Ray

Does anyone have a simple but effective tanning method that might work for rabbit skins. I have a group of scouts to teach later this year and I'd like to get them onto something like this. I'm slightly concerned that materials may not be available over here so I'm keen to get a long 'lead time' on this. Any help gratefully accepted. Thanks in advance...

Tina, I have re-leathered a couple of these in the dim and distant past and didn't experience any great problem with them, but the ones I did were very simple indeed. My only advice is to take a bunch of pictures before you start work and then take a lot more pictures as you go and if you dismantle any of the frame keep all the bits nice and safe - I once lost one screw and it held me up for half a day whilst I drove miles trying to replace it. I got back, put the replacement screw in the hole and tightened it up and almost immediately saw the missing one on the floor... anyone else done that? Doh! Here a couple of pictures of finished chairs - not my work I'm afraid but I particularly like the 'campaign' furniture look. I'd be interested to know if anyone knows a director chair frame maker? Ray

Great pictures - but far too much snow for me! Where are you based, Broncobuster?

Nice job, Karl, you must be pleased. Have you any idea how old the machine is? Ray

Amen to that Greybeard... I like the view too - and the leatherwork is cool. I haven't forgotten I owe you a mail, Allen, but I'm still struggling to recover my main computer. I'll get to it very soon! Thanks for your patience. Ray

Welcome to the forum. I'm just south of Oswestry in Shropshire - I'd guess you'll have heard of the orthopaedic hospital there. If you ever get below the border then I'll gladly give you whatever guidance I can with the tooling - otherwise drop me a PM and we'll arrange a telephone chat. As Roo said, there are lots of people willing to share their knowledge here so I'm sure you'll get offers closer to home. Ray

Many thanks for this Gary, most useful. I'm going to make up a few and see what happens. Has anyone got any experience or knowledge about which colours sell best? - Black and tan always seem to be popular but I made a batch of veg tan collars a few months back and dyed them bright colours - I still have most of them! Does this match anyone else's experience? On the veg tan question, I've been using it for years and never had a complaint. It absorbs the grease from a dog's fur quite readily and this alone is quite an effective sealer. I agree with Gary that bridle leather would make the best quality collars, but IMHO veg tan works fine for most jobs as long as it gets a good waxy waterproof sealer on top of whatever colour dye job you choose.

This past month or two I've been making a lot of dog collars. Mostly the sort that are used for 'running dogs' whipets, greyhounds, and lurchers. I just make two sizes and that seems to be plenty for this type of dog. In the main, and probably like most folk here, I usually make stuff like collars and leads to special order; I get the measurement and make a collar - no problem. I have always made quite a few collars each year but had no idea how many sizes of dog there were until I started some market research. Last week I took a few minutes to check out my local pet store and discovered that they only hold a small range of sizes (I live in a very small place) and have to get most stuff special order. Most of the collars and leads they sell are pretty badly finished and very basic. I'm confident that there is a good market bt I need a bit more information before I can start orderiing quantities of buckles and dees. I'd greatly appreciate some advice, if you can spare a minute, about the overall sizes of dog collars. It sounds simple but it appears there are three main variables and I'd like to get it right first time in order to save some money. I'd like to know your thoughts on the most common: Width of collar Length of collar Thickness of collar If you were putting together a sensible range of sizes what would YOU make and how would you make them? Edit: As a thank you I've included a link to short video that ought to make you laugh: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=MklwlkTF6z8 Why do people do this stuff?

I went down to South Wales yesterday to collect some sheepskins and visit a leatherworking friend near Swansea. The route took me through the mountains and valleys. This is one of the most beautiful places I know. These pictures were taken about an hour from my home - I feel so lucky to live here.

I'll assume the towel is to catch all those fingers and thumbs shall I? <grin!> ...or perhaps its there to soak up the bood before it gets on the leather! I've been using a head knife for a week or two now and I get along with it quite well. It took me a while to learn how to sharpen it properly but now I wouldn't be without one on my bench along with my two double sided strops, five sharpening stones, jeweller's rouge (white and red) and a small can of light machine oil... and yes I use them all quite frequently! I find the head knife is perfect for straight cuts and long curved cuts in heavier leather. Of course it works well on softer leathers too but I prefer a rotary knife nowadays. About thirty years ago I thought I might leave off the head knife and tried a shoemaker's utility knife but it didn't feel quite right so I explored the dark world of craft knives and found some little yellow handled things made by Swann Morton the scalpel makers that were ideal for very fine work. They hold their edge very well indeed and can be stropped to a fine edge time after time. I couldn't be without one now. My point is that one knife simply wouldn't be enough for me. Some folk pride themselves on only having one knife and I take my hat off to them. My work is so varied that I can't imagine that luxury - fancy only keeping one knife sharp... whoooee wouldn't that be nice! Somehow, I can't imagine using a head knife for fine filligree work or using my little scalpel blades for slicing belts. In the same way I like to use a plough gauge to cut straps. They all do different jobs. The scissor issue is a tricky one as i'm a recent convert to leather shears. For many years I was unable to cut a straight line with shears but now it seems like I may be getting my eye at last... 'bout time too if you ask me! I watched those videos that Mr Gibb kindly put on the forum for us and have to say that I probably wouldn' sharpen anything quite like that - but then I probably wouldn't take the same route between towns as many of the people who do the journey every day. We all learn from experience and if those video clips inspired even one person to learn how to sharpen correctly then they served a good purpose. Lets face it, if what you are doing doesn't work - and like Tony and Art, I have my doubts about that first sharpening stone! - then most folk will very soon find a way that does work. I really enjoy the video clips that people put up here. There was a superb laced bracelet making video a while back that inspired me to buy one. I remember the incredible spray can artist clips - amazing. Let's not discourage anyone from putting stuff on here that could teach us something and respect the comments people make about what they see. As the wooly hatted Badger so rightly says: "The sum total of the leatherworking experience on this amazing board runs into the thousands of years" but we mustn't lose sight of our need to learn and for the pressing need to pass on our knowledge whenever we can - none of us are here for ever. Okay - I'll stop pontificating at this point and get back to making my tooled dog collars...

I reckon its that hat... warm up the brain too much and you never know what might happen...

I'd be concerned about using velvet or velveteen as it absorbs water so easily and takes ages to dry. I had a wonderful black velvet cloth that got put away after a show and by the next week was foul with mildew as it wasn't properly dry when it was rolled up. Also velvet creases really badly - not a problem if you like the crushed look... I have used drop down bamboo shades in the past and they worked quite well until somebody sat on one in the van on the way home. I couldn't get a replacement and so had to change the whole set up as it looked silly with one missing. The fence roll sounds good but how big is that stuff - the only roll I have seen was huge. What about using the stuff they use as to make windbreaks in garden centres? It comes in several colours, seems almost indestructible and is waterproof. I'm going to have a look at what is available in the UK.

You might like to try the old win a bottle of champagne or whisky trick... it has worked plenty of times for me. Simply find a glass punch bowl and stand a bottle of booze in it with a label saying put your business card here to get a chance of winning the bottle. You will have a huge mailing list in no time (most people will try to win booze) but it won't be particularly product specific. If you want to refine the process then use a piece of your work as the prize. If they drop their contact detils into the pot then you will know they could be potential clients I never had any luck with a visitor's book though and I did try it a couple of times. Another option is the 'internet raffle' where you give free entry to a prize draw to win a nice prize - all people have to do is write their email address down on your list. Now personally, I'd not be inclined to do that as I hate getting spamed, but plenty of folk will.

I've been doing a lot of research into booths - I'm not sure I know anything useful but what did you want to discuss? Personally, I'd like some ideas about the sort of background colours and fabric people use for their booths. I am almost settled on using hair-on reindeer hides for the table part of mine. They have a nice range of natural colours and lay pretty flat and the fur is very pretty. The best bit is that the leather really stands out against it. I'm now trying to identify some backdrop material for the back and sides of the booth. Like you I want to display guitar straps, but I also intend to hang some tooled and carved bags, archery quivers and wide belts with gemstones set into them. A trickly combination of items and colours so I think a plain colour is called for. I don't particularly like hessian as IMHO it looks cheap - hey, it is cheap and i've used it plenty of times in the past but I feel with this economic situation it is time to go up market with the look of the booth and keep the price of the goods reasonable - any thoughts?

I have seen shoes like these (made in Germany) that have rubber soles and they are superb. My only regret was that I don't speak or write German well enough to chat with the makers but I did have a few very pleasant emails from them. Nice folk making good leatherwork and well worth a look. Check out www.lederstrumpf-und-wichtelland.de but specifically: http://www.lederstrumpf-und-wichtelland.de...uhe/schuhe.html