UKRay

Many thanks, Art, perfect! No need to worry about metric - I work in proper grown-up measurements!

That was all useful and very interesting stuff - thanks guys. Now we are getting near... So if you were making a quiver to sell, what length would you make it? Would you make it for an average arrow length of around 31 inches? How much of an arrow is fletching as it seems that this relates directly to the amount of arrow that sits in the quiver. In other words, how much allowance do you make for fletching - 4", 6" or what? Can you / should you allow the feathers to stick out the top? Do the fletchings need to be protected from the weather? Is there any kind of standard size for broadheads or do they all vary?

This may sound like a very silly set of questions but I would like to make a quiver and have no idea how long / wide to make it. Do arrows vary in length? How many arrows do people carry? I know there are several types of arrowhead but what are they and what are they used for? Are hunting arrows a different size to field archery arrows? I have seen circles of leather with holes in them used in quivers to stop the arrows from rattling together - why do people do this and how big are the holes? Why do people build pouches into quivers - how big should a pouch be? I have heard of bowfishing but what sort of arrow would you use for that? Should a quiver be lined and if so, what with? Should a quiver be worn on belt or shoulder? Sorry for all the questions, especially as I actually feel I haven't asked enough! I just feel the need to know as much as possible about arrows and quivers before I start work - can anyone help fill in the gaps please?

Now that is what I call a 'result'. Congratulations, John.

Nice clean job! You must be pleased with that one. What next?

Now that is a good looking sheath, Karl. Glad to see the pearson is still working as it should. I'm going to be hammering on some of my Baker leather tomorrow as I am waaay overdue on a PIF. Sorry Tasha... Regarding hats, I suspect Luke would soon find a woolly hat of his own if he had to deal with our British weather for any length of time. Mind you, I happen to know he has a fine collection of hats of his own. What I'd like to see is a tutorial from Luke on making proper hat bands. Glad to see you have gone back to your original avatar, Luke. Much cooler than Clint - even if he was wearing his Pale Rider hat!

You might find this link interesting, RDB, even more clogs! http://www.history.uk.com/articles/index.php?archive=67

I'm with Obi Wan, all the way! Having just switched from rawhide mallet to maul I wouldn't ever go back but I have to say the first couple of weeks were a bit tense... If I were you, Skipj, I'd find myself a heap of scrap leather and beat the bejazus out of it for a couple of weeks until you have got your eye in... If it doesn't work for you, just remember that I'd kill for a Barry King maul and paying to ship yours to the UK wouldn't be a problem at all! LOL

Last week was very exciting for some of the UK contingent. We (Karl, Terry and Ray) went on a road trip to Devon to visit Steve Brambley's amazing workshop. After meeting Steve for an uproarious lunch in a South Molton pub we went back to his workshop in the wilds of North Devon. The attached pictures tell part of the story, about beautiful old tools, machines and demonstrations, but they don't do justice to Steve's warm welcome and enthusiasm for his work. Steve really is a superb craftsman and his products are an example of everything that is good about British leatherwork today. Check out his website at www.bishnym.com Thanks Steve - a really excellent day! edit: Added a couple more pictures for fun. These were the only 'in focus' pictures I could find of Terry and Karl.

I really like your work, Kate. The tooling is lovely and the finish and stitching is superb - what have you used in the way of colour and finish here? My only concern is that if I had an expensive and precious guitar rather than my cheap, cheerful and slightly battered Yamaha then I wouldn't want to risk damaging it with a chunky buckle on my strap.

Josh is quite right, I do sell quite a bit on eBay and providing you build in sufficient profit margin to make it worthwhile it is a good place to sell. Personally, I don't have any problems and I shift a reasonable amount of stock without trying too hard. What is it you want to know? I'm happy to help in any way I can. Ray

That makes perfect sense to me, Tashabear. As I am excused anything with a saw blade will you make me a very big one please? LOL

Thanks for that Tony - I can hardly believe they are selling 'em for that much - you have to give those guys full marks for cheek! Don't you just love living in a capitalist society? LOL

Thanks muchly, Barra. I'd seem 'em at Abbey but I can't always afford their prices. Although these seem pretty good, I find Abbey, generally, rather expensive. I was hoping for a couple of inexpensive options. Celticleather is bound to know where to find some at the right price!

Does anyone know of a wholesale supplier for Wenzels - those needle and thread on a bit of cardboard things. I have been looking for ages and can't find anyone who sells them. Any assistance gratefully received!

Ed, have you looked at using a cheapo gold foil printer? They sometimes have a quick and easy way to set up letters and work by pressing the hot letters onto the foil on the leather surface. I have used mine cold to emboss an image onto cased leather. I guess that could work for you.

I knew where you were coming from, John! I have started another thread over in marketing about the value of networking and hope to gather enough information to put together another KNOL. I'd appreciate it if you could take a look and add your comments and suggestions.

Anyone who does leatherwork for any length of time will almost certainly have to sell some of their work - if only to make room for more stuff in their workshop. I do this by talking to pretty nearly everyone I meet about what I do. By listening to what they have to say about leatherwork I can often pick up on something they would like made and in a short time I have a sale. I find that I sell far more stuff to people I know and talk to regularly than casual buyers because they know I won't rip them off. They are happy to trust me with their order because they know I'll deliver on time and they know I won't hike my price at the last minute. - I think this is all about trust. I've sat here for quite a while trying to work out precisely what it is that I say to folk to build that trust. Aside from general pleasantries and chat, I believe I get the best response by reflecting their own interests. In other words, if they are interested in history then I'm happy to talk historical leather with them. If they are interested in sport I'll gladly talk about any aspect they care to discuss but I try to put a leathery spin on the conversation: making leather footballs, sewing boxing gloves, making cases for firearms, that sort of thing... I'm not sure if this is always the best idea and I'd like some suggestions for other lines of discussion. I'd also like some ideas about how to increase my circle of contacts - networking hints if you like! How do you network with people? Where do you network? What do you say to get them interested in what you do? How do you build trust?

As you say, the whole networking thing is so important, John. People like to deal with folk they know and trust. Unless you make time to go out and talk to people and learn how to discuss your work in a way that isn't confrontational or dull you are definitely inhibiting potential sales. I think this probably warrants a seperate thread as there is a lot to discuss here.

What Lobo said... Nice job. It is hard to believe you have only just started out - watch out guys, we have a live one here!

Keep up the good work, Josh. I'm keen to see the next set of pictures! Ray

Not a silly question at all. I currently have a centre room light and no less than nine anglepoise style lights in my workroom supplemented by three additional flourescent lights over critical areas (sewing machines and tooling bench). I still find myself struggling sometimes and have had to resport to getting a special pair of glasses made for very close work like threading needles and fine tooling. I'm fascinated to hear what advice people might offer!

I while back I wrote a brief document about marketing that Johanna pinned to this section. I'm honoured that she did so. Unfortunately, IMHO, I left a lot of questions unanswered and so I decided to work on some of the other issues we face whilst trying to sell our products. The upshot was that I wrote a few more Knols for my own benefit as a way of reminding myself of the advice I have been given and the mistakes I have made. Part II- Shelters or Booths Part III - Displaying Leather Goods Part IV - Paperwork and Signage A lot of the questions that get asked here in the marketing section seem to revolve around a few important points. High on the list is how to present goods for sale and how to get more sales. The answers given are almost always the same so I tried to condense what I know from experience and what I have learned here into Knols that can be found at the following URL: http://knol.google.com/k/ray-hatley/market...ing-and-selling Having shown one or two people, I was asked to share them here but I would like to say very clearly that I am not claiming to know anything at all - especially not all the answers! I just hope that these documents might be useful to a few folk and offer them as a starting point for informed discussion and thought. Nothing more. If you have a minute, please take a look and tell me where I went wrong! Ray

Chuck - and all, I had a feeling the sequence thing wasn't going to work in this instance. I finished the job by fitting the metalwork onto wet leather and shaping the leather around the metal to keep it in place. Unfortunately I completed and returned the job to the client without photographing the fittings (I have been so busy I completely forgot to do it until it was too late...) but you were quite right, the central supporting ring was split and squeezed into place after the job was completed. It was then painted over with a varnish-like substance to cover the join. I didn't even think to look for a split as I was convinced it was a solid piece of metal. Thanks for that one. The leather I used was fairly standard veg tan. I split it down from 3.5mm thick to around 2mm thick and stitched up my butt jointed tube using concealed stitching (in other words stitched inside a knife cut) and then boned it down to hide the join. I like this type of join but it is a fair bit more work and, IMHO, the hammered butt joint is slightly more decorative. Personal preference I guess. I accept that many old scabbards were covered wood but this scabbard wasn't. I stripped the original myself and it was simply a leather tube. I think the idea of half-cured leather is a good one and I'll try to find some half cured oak bark tanned leather for the next one to see if there is an appreciable difference. I have tried the hot water process on a couple of offcuts and I'm now convinced that the correct tanning is part of the solution. In the end I simply ran very hot water, straight from the bath faucet, through the tube for a few minutes and, having slipped the fittings into place, moulded the scabbard using my long steel bars. Warning: If you plan on doing this, wash your dirty workshop hands thoroughly as dye stains on the bath mean I'm forbidden to play in the bathroom again... I have identified a couple of 'specialist' tools and useful materials that may be useful if anyone plans on doing this kind of thing. Start out by getting several 3ft lengths of mild steel in different widths and appropriate thicknesses (I use 1/8th thick x 1/2" 3/4" and 1" wide steel) as you will need to form the scabbard around something and the sword is often too precious or fragile to risk, I made do with a set of steel loop sticks for a while but found the length issues irritated me - hence the investment in the long bits. Curved swords simply require a curved former so heat up your metal and give it an appropriate bend to match the original sword. Invest in a few curved awls of different sizes and learn how to use them properly. You must be able to sew the full length of your scabbard without a single mistake or slip of the awl. Practise is the only way to learn. Mistakes look horrible and IMHO are not acceptable. As I'm fortunate enoughto have a silversmithing bench in my workroom I am able to silver solder broken fittings and heat up small pieces of metal to straighten them. I use a Sieverts gas torch for most of my silver work but a relatively cheap, fine flame 'can type' gas torch is handy for difficult areas. To make the job a lot easier try using silver paste flux rather than borax. This stuff comes in a hypodermic style syringe and you simply put a squirt on your job and heat it to make a perfect joint. Much easier than conventional methods although the joint isn't always as strong. Invest in a bench anvil if you haven't already got one. make sure it has a nice pointed 'nose' as you may need to slip fittings over this to re-shape them. Hope this helps.

All really helpful ideas, fishguy, especially about the sheath maker's dip. I'm not quite sure how the curved form comes into it as this is a straight Naval sword not a cutlass. Do you mean a former to open out the 'tube'? Sorry, but I haven't understood. Like you, I usually make a groove or sometimes a slit for 'invisible' work for the stitches to lie in but this leather is around 2mm thick so you can't take it too deep without affecting the strength of the work. Tapping the seams flat is just how I was taught (I think I referred to it as pounding earlier but this was simply a figure of speech) , but maybe Chuck knows a different way. I can see that boning would do a similar job if you spend enough time and energy at it - I tend to prefer the leisurely approach! LOL One thing that has just occured to me is that old style leather was often less supple than modern leather - maybe it was inherently stiffer? Anyone got any thoughts on that? I'm really looking forward to what Chuck has to say as his work is legendary, even over here in the UK. BTW: I am inclined to slide the fittings on whilst the leather is wet too (I have done one or two of these before) but Chuck gave a specific sequence of events in his post and I am keen to hear how he works.