dikman

I may have to take back what I said earlier. I read the whole document this time (I stopped at the shuttle timing last time) and it's somewhat more complex than mine! The bits to check are the needle bar adjustment and the shuttle timing - the shuttle timing adjustment is quite different to mine. Check them out, but DON"T adjust anything unless you know it's out of whack. If you feel that they need adjusting, I suggest you put marks first on the various bits so that you have a reference where they are now. I didn't, when I got stuck into mine, and if I had I may have saved myself some grief. Photos may be a good idea too. And yeah, when you change materials the tensions may require tweaking slightly (I figure webbing may be particularly problematic, due to the varying thickness i.e. material and "holes"?).

Seems to me that if he wants a "rough look" then leave it as is, so that it will gradually acquire a nice used look about it.

Unless you're very lucky and can find a suitable machine at a bargain basement price, be prepared to spend a decent sum on something that can sew leather. Look in the "sewing machine" section as a starting point. The minimum you will need is a walking foot, and ideally a compound feed walker. You could always hand stitch it - might take a while, but then you can amaze your friends by saying "yep, I made that, all done by hand".

I've watched that video a couple (!) of times, and found it most informative - but it was certainly painful to watch, as he "fumbles" around a bit. JLS raises a point that I also thought of, i.e. the bullets rubbing on the diagonal stitching. It seems to me that it would be a good candidate for running a groove on the diagonal line?

Thanks cd, that makes sense (we tend to think in terms of leather on here and it's easy to overlook other materials, I guess). Looking at your list of classic machines, I see that I've got one that you haven't .

That stitch looks pretty good to me, considering you're sewing webbing! That document I mentioned has info on setting the hook timing - although it says "parts list" it has more than that in it. I had a quick look as I was curious (it's different to my machine). I can't help with the cutter, as I'm not familiar with them, although mine had an automatic cutter which cut the excess material from the seam as it was sewed - I removed it as 1) I didn't need it and 2) it was one more complication I could do without! As long as the machine is working mechanically, virtually all problems, in my experience, will be due to thread tension and/or hook timing. Spend the time to make sure the hook timing is correct,

Yeah, I got a pair of those too, impulse. Seemed like a good idea, for the price, but I've found them to be too much magnification for my needs! Still, didn't cost much to try. (Been a bit wet in the hills lately, hasn't it?).

I have discovered that getting the thread tension is critical. The bobbin tension, in my experience so far, has to be a lot "looser" than I would have expected. I spent a lot of time just turning it by hand, watching the bobbin and the hook in operation, and experimenting with thread tension. I also had a problem recently with something catching individual strands in the thread, cutting it and the thread partially "unravelling". Turned out that I had the hook timing wrong and the hook was catching the strands. These old machines aren't actually that complicated - but you have to spend a bit of time becoming familiar with their operation. Just found this parts list, I don't know if it's of any use - http://www.supsew.com/KnowledgeBaseArtefacts/Images/Singer%20269W.pdf

Welcome, medion, I too have discovered the paucity of information about old Singer machines. I managed to find a parts listing and a user manual for mine (51W59) and that's it! Fortunately, the user manual had the most critical bit of info - timing the hook. The rest of it I figured out by cleaning and oiling it. I can tell you that the W in the model number indicates it was built in the US. Some say that any Singer can be identified as to its build date, but this doesn't apply to the W series at least, as the records appear to be pretty patchy.

I like where you're coming from, Don. At our stage in life we are lucky that time is not an issue when making something. It does give us an advantage over those who must try and make a living from what, to us, is an enjoyable pastime. On the other hand, I doubt if we could ever charge enough to really cover our costs when making something. I certainly can't!! I recently made two single-action gunbelt rigs for club members - one paid me with pistol primers and powder (which is fine, as it saved me buying it) and the other in cash, although he wanted to pay me more than I asked ($150 - plus materials - is nowhere near to covering the time I spent on it, but I was happy with that). I figure if I can cover my material costs and get a little bit extra, to put back into the hobby, then I'm doing well. I'm under no illusions, however, at being able to sell much, particularly as I'm only really interested in making belts, holsters and knife sheaths (very limited market). I see nothing wrong with "specialising" in particular items, as it means you should be able to learn how to make a quality item, and to make it efficiently. If it were a full-time, income-earning business then you probably wouldn't have the luxury of being able to concentrate on what really interests you. Your idea of helping others in the community to learn about leather working is also commendable, I hope it works out. My involvement in leather working, by the way, is measured in months, so you're way ahead of me. Live long and prosper, my friend.

The wording is pretty much the same in my manual. I agree that while a 24 needle seems a bit much, particularly for anything but thin leather, I don't believe they would list them if they wouldn't work. These are industrial machines, and if they didn't work as claimed industry simply wouldn't have bought them. Not that I can see much use in such a large needle and thread if it will only go through thin stuff! I suppose it sounds good, being able to list bigger needles, even if the practical applications are limited!! (I must admit I was momentarily excited at the thought of using 207 thread, until I stopped and thought about the possible problems of using such a large needle in this machine. I'm happy enough at being able to use 138 thread, as it puts me way ahead of my other little domestic Singer). I used it today to pre-punch the holes on another gunbelt, I used a broken size 21 needle, which I ground to a point, and simply turned the wheel by hand while feeding the belt in. Worked very well, and gave me nice even holes. I did try using the motor, but even though I've fitted a speed reducer it still doesn't have the real low speed control I need and can run away very easily, particularly when doing a pattern.

I agree, while there are times when high magnification might be handy, I think 20 power will be too much for most things. Some of the head-type magnifiers have variable magnification, you just flip down additional lenses. Two of mine are like that and I find them very useful, as most times I only need low magnification.

I had a bad day a couple of days ago, courtesy of this machine! I thought I had it sorted and was happily running a line of stitches when I broke a needle - size 21 - and everything locked up! I eventually tracked it down to one of the bevel gears that drive the hook/shuttle shaft, it had been knocked along it's shaft just enough to get out of mesh (I'm just glad they used metal gears). I reset the hook timing, but then found that something was catching a strand of the thread occasionally, breaking it and causing all sorts of threading problems. I stripped and polished all the parts where the thread ran (found a few grooves in one of the thread guides, so smoothed them out) but it didn't help. Eventually I noticed that the hook was the culprit, catching the odd strand, breaking it and then the strand was unravelling back along the thread, making it appear that the problem was elsewhere!!! I couldn't see anything wrong, but I polished the hook with some metal polish just in case but to no avail. The timing appeared right, so at this point I gave up for the day. Next day I searched the 'net for hook problems but couldn't find anything that I hadn't already checked. I figured it had to be a hook timing issue, so redid it, starting from scratch. Previously, I'd used my "calibrated" eye to get the required 3/32" adjustment on the needle bar, this time I used a 3/32" drill bit as the gauge. So much for my "calibrated" eye, it wasn't even close to 3/32"!!!!! After I adjusted it correctly, the hook position was way too advanced, no wonder I was having problems. I reset the hook again, and that was it, the hook picked up the thread perfectly every time. In the meantime, my size 18 needles had come in, so I tried the #138 thread and found it slid through the eye without any drag. I fitted a needle, loaded the thread and, with some trepidation, started the machine. Eureka! A perfect row of stitches! I tried different stitch lengths and different thicknesses of leather and it didn't miss a beat until I got to 1/4" thick. It worked if I turned it by hand, but the motor didn't like it too much, although I discovered later that it depends on how hard/dense the leather is as it will (just) do soft 1/4" stuff. It will actually punch through 1/4" fine, using the motor, if there's no thread in the needle, but adding thread appears to load it down a bit more. Doesn't matter, it'll be fine for most of my needs. Wiz, the manual states that it will use up to size 24 needles and the only criteria on thread size is that it must pass through the eye of the needle with no drag. This means that theoretically I should be able to use up to #207 thread, although the thickness of the material is likely to be more critical (should be ok for thinner stuff). The only real problem is that I would need to open up the hole in the needle plate, but I'm not sure that I really want to do that. I think I'll stick with the 18/#138 combo as the max size used, as it appears to work fine. I found an old belt, about 3/16" thick and a bit on the hard side, and ran several rows of stitches down its full length without missing a beat, so I'm feeling pretty happy with it. Hallelujah!

Dunno about magnified glasses, but I've been using an "optivisor"-type head magnifier for years (for all sorts of things). Wouldn't be without one, in fact I have three scattered around the house/sheds!

Isn't it great to have an area dedicated to your work? Wish I did .

I agree, not finishing the edges makes it look as though you were in a hurry. I'm a rank amateur at this stuff, but I've found that people were very impressed when they saw finished edges on the (three) gunbelts I made. They asked how on earth I did it!

As it's only a hobby, I can't see the point in spending such a large amount on a machine that, if I'm honest with myself, I will only use occasionally. I'm more than happy to wait and see if something used (or old and needs some work, which would suit me fine) turns up. In the meantime not having such a machine won't impact on my leatherwork, it would just be the icing on the cake. The sage advice from members here has at least stopped me from buying something that wouldn't have been suitable, and I now understand exactly what a walking foot machine is and what it can do. Also, 25B is right in that a professional wouldn't mess around but would just buy one (or two or three), as they would get the use from it.

Thanks Darren, the problem is that I can't justify a new machine as this is purely a hobby for me (with little prospect, or intention, of making any money from it!). There is a dealer in Adelaide who specialises in industrial machines, but I was quoted $2800 (and he said that was a heavily discounted price) on a new cylinder arm walking foot - brand was Protex, or something like that. My only hope is to keep looking and hopefully an older machine will turn up at some point. I'm actually quite happy hand stitching my stuff, but I just like having "new" toys to play with!!!

Wiz, I have no doubt that you're correct, as I assume that the needle/thread combo it came with (#16/69 thread) is the optimum for what it's designed for. I'm sure that at it's original speed it couldn't handle anything heavier. I've slowed it down significantly, however, which is giving me greater control, and while it will never handle what a good walking foot can do I reckon I can get it to go past its original design parameters - within reason. Like I said, it's all good fun, and your assistance has been invaluable.

I searched on ebay - again - and couldn't find them listed at the quoted price, they were all around US $180. (Even at $119, that comes out at Aus $160, at that price I think I'll stick with my manual knives). It may very well be a nice unit, but at that price it falls under "discretionary spending", and is far from necessary.

Titanium needles? Good grief, I consider myself lucky just being able to get the right size in "plain" needles! I increased the rolling wheel pressure, and that definitely helped (I forgot that I'd backed off the pressure last time I was messing around). I think 138 thread is do-able, although I think that a #22 needle may be a little too heavy. I experimented with a #16, with 138 thread, and got it sewing pretty well - until I tried two layers of 3-4 oz and one layer of 6-7 oz. I got a couple of stitches and then the needle snapped most convincingly! I'd obviously pushed that combo a wee bit too far. The problem with the breakage appears to be in the design of the roller and feed dog. The feed dog mounting plate is actually raised just a little above the adjacent area of the needle plate, so in effect the leather where the needle pushes through is unsupported. If the leather isn't too thick then the needle can push through ok, but if it's too thick (for the size of the needle) then the leather deflects downward slightly and allows the needle to bend just enough to miss the hole in the needle plate, resulting in either a bent point or a snapped needle. I may try and build up that area to give more support to the leather. This is all good, as I need to find the limitations of this machine. (I've just made yet another pulley - larger - for the stepdown that I made, to try and slow it even more).

Yes, it is lifting with the bigger needle. Good point. More experimenting today.

Good idea, Bob - and a lot cheaper!

At the risk of boring everyone, I decided to experiment with thread/needle size. It came with #16 needles and #69 thread, which is what was used to make shoes with, I guess. I bought some #138 thread (on special for $14 for a cone, so I couldn't help myself). The thread actually fitted the #16 needle quite well (no sign of dragging), so I gave it a go on a piece of old stiff 4-5 oz leather. It actually went through it ok, but wasn't pulling the bottom thread into the hole. I put this down to the needle hole being too small for the four strands of thread going through it. Or maybe the leather was too stiff? The only bigger needle I have is a #21, so I tried that. It worked fine if I turned the wheel by hand, but as soon as I tried using the motor (very slow speed) I started getting runs of dropped stitches, looks like the hook on the shuttle isn't grabbing the thread. Strange how it worked with the smaller needle, but not the bigger one. I'll get some #18 needles next week (out of stock at the moment) and give that a try. I was pleasantly surprised that it worked at all with the thicker thread.

I have a pair of battery operated scissors (actually, 3 pairs!) and I find them great for cutting material for patches and cleaning swabs for my muzzleloaders. I haven't tried them on leather, but I have grave doubts about them cutting thick veg tan!! While I like this unit that's mentioned, my battery scissors only cost me $5, so unless these are the same price I see no point in buying any more. Edit: I just looked them up on ebay - $260 Australian!!!!!!! I definitely won't be buying any.