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I have found this step to be completely unnecessary. I used to husk the nuts and blend until I came across a Native American recipe from the 18th century which suggested soaking the whole nuts in water until they fermented and the husk started sliding off (usually takes about two weeks). You can boil with or without the nut itself, it really doesn't make a difference, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't, it really depends on how much husk material I have after peeling.I most definitely agree that you should check the natural dyes thread at CAS City, there's a lot of good information there, make sure you go through the entire discussion though, a lot of the recipes evolve through the thread. There's also a recipe in The Book of Buckskinning vol. VI. I've tried coffee and tea dyes a few times and have never been happy with them, they tend to require a lot of soaking, 12-24 hours, to achieve at most a very light brown color. A 1:1 mix of walnut dye and water, brushed on, gives essentially the same color in far less time and gives the option of darkening by adding multiple coats. Don't overlook fiber dyeing recipes (ignore the mordants and boiling/soaking times), they're good guides for determining if an ingredient will work, what color it will givegive and how light fast it is. Generally speaking, if it works for fabric, it will work for leather.

Without fail, the color extraction process is going to be boiling, toss the intended ingredients into a pot, add water and boil. Some of them will require a full rolling boil (I get the best result from walnuts by boiling the crap out of them) wile others, such as onion skins will work well by taking them to a rolling boil and then reducing to a simmer. A rolling boil will extract color faster than a simmer, but some items don't respond well to that level of heat for an extended period. Regardless of boiling or simmering you're looking at hours of heat and usualy a couple of water refreshes before you reach a useable dye. After you achieve the color and consistency/viscosity you're looking for allow it to cool and decant into containers. You've got a couple of options when it comes to storage, you can freeze the dye which requires no preservative, but does require thawing before use, or you can add rubbing alcohol to lengthen shelf life. I use alcohol, 1 cup of 90% isopropyl per 2 quarts of dye. Others use more or less, but I've found this to be a good ratio, I've got an old (5 years old to be exact) container of walnut dye using this ratio and it has never shown a willingness to mold. I use natural dyes straight from the barrel without cooking out the alcohol and have never had any issues, other people insist that the alcohol needs to be cooked out before use, but I just don't see the point in that, it's extra work which serves no purpose. Isopropyl on leather is a lesser evil than the denatured alchohol found in factory dyes and the amount of alcohol I suggest is an infinitely smaller quantity than is found in those store bought dyes. When it comes to dyeing you'll have to experiment, you'll get a different color depending on application, brush the dye on gives a different tone than imersing the leather, altering the number of layers applied or the amount if time the leather was immersed will also alter the resulting color. The leather itself will alter your color results too, no two hides will give the same color. The amount of oil applied after dyeing will alter the color depth too. Practice and experimentation are paramount when using natural dyes. With the black walnut dye I make I can get shades as light as a yellowish tan all the way to beep dark chocolate brown, it all depends on my method of application and the amount of dye I apply. I definitely suggest you try natural dyes, theyre far less messy than spirit and oil dyes, cheap, easy to make and once you figure out the tricks they're easy to use.

You can get natural undyed linen thread from Campbell Randall http://www.campbell-randall.com/shop/index.php?route=product/category&path=43_60_62 I've used the Barbours Linen 6 cord and dyed it with normal leather dye but you should be able to dye it with the natural dyes you have made.

You could dye the leather with spices, boiled dark coffee and natural dyes. Someone with more knowledge may be able to tell you how to get the colours to penetrate deep and last.

You might want to try this book http://books.google.com/books/about/Harvesting_Color.html?id=8CwxW75P_dsC It lists several types of natural dyes and colors available. Includes how to make them. Pink and purple are just some of the colors she explains.

Makes sense. Im not in my element here, doesn't motorized burnishing create better results than hand burnishing as the pressure is more consistent? For integrity of the product it will make a difference, but is the quality better? In the area of quality vs speed/price Motorized burnishing same as manual burnishing - results wise? Hand cutting vs die cutting - do customers want to pay more for hand cutting vs die cutting? Machine stitching vs hand stitching - I think i got a handle on this one. Hand dying with natural dye like fruits or powders vs conventional oil dyes? (This may be influence by the target market) everything by hand have that big of an influence vs most things are done by hand but a few areas are motorized for cost efficiency and consistency.

everyone gave you some great information. but wondering why no one mentioned evoo(extra virgin olive oil) as a finish oil? also there are natural dyes you can make for dying your projects. for example you can use used coffee grounds, walnut hulls and rusty water for old time dyes. the vinger black dye may not work for you due to the smell of vinger. i also have great results using leather balm with atom wax as a finish. you can get it from tandy. Wyosheen is the new name of Neat Lac since tandy does not carry it any more. it has a very harsh smell but it works real good as a finish. the following link is to cas city that has a lot of information on making old time dyes in your house: http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,11991.0.html

See this thread for info on natural dyes: http://leatherworker...?showtopic=1317

Wayland. CasCity is fhere I read about the black walnut based brown dye. Thank you for the other link as well, because I do quite a bit of tie dying in the summer and am interested in natural dyes for that purpose as well.

spirit dyes, easter egg dyes, natural dyes like coffee, beets, onions, walnuts, and also some types of permanent markers do a real good job of penetrating the rawhide.

when it comes to dying rawhide I have had some experiance, but more to dyeing the whole hide or strings - because of rawhide characteristics I tended to use natural dyes which I soaked into the rawhide for differing periods of time, I guess treating it like leather in some way - as for creating patterns I do remember the authgor of this book - Deerskins Into Buckskins - mentioning ways to use natural dyes on buckskin - afraid thats all I know but I guess rawhide will soak up a water based paint - maybe thats worth trying one of the thick acrylic types. sorry

The rawhide tends to take better to the dyes. Where as with the kangaroo it takes a bit longer to get that all the way through the skin dyed effect. I tested a natural piece of kangaroo and it took about 2 or 3 days just for the color to stay on the surface. So the natural dye like I have been using on the horse hide does not work out too well with kangaroo. I know that a dye for leather will work better. I have not tried rite dye on any natural kangaroo hide yet. One of my next experiments on the table to do. LOL... I did notice that the orange in your photo turned out really nice. It almost takes on the color of Saddle Tan. A tad bit darker and it would almost look exactly like a Saddle Tan, which is one of my favorite colors in leather. B...

I just found this on another site and found it very interesting and helpful Brew some "vinegaroon." Spray fine-grade steel wool with water and allow to rust for several days to a few weeks, rewetting the material daily. When well rusted, put the steel wool in a jar and cover with boiling vinegar. Let steep several days. Longer steeping time and rustier wool will give you the darkest color. Mix vinegaroon with a small amount of commercial leather conditioner to make it easier to apply to leather. Vinegaroon is a good choice for small objects that can be briefly submerged in the dye, such as a leather wallet. 4Brew coffee. Strong coffee can be used as a leather dye. Brew the strongest coffee you can, double the amount of grounds you would normally use, then simmer in an uncovered cooking pot to reduce it to one-third its original volume. You can also use leftover brewed coffee, reduced on the stove top, or instant coffee mixed boiled in water. Allow to cool. Mix coffee with a small amount of commercial leather conditioner before applying to leather. Coffee is a subtle pigment, but can revitalize a faded tan leather sofa by giving it a richer brown hue. 5Go natural. Red onions can be boiled down to make a shade of blue. You can also make a brown dye from the green outer skin of fresh walnuts; crush the walnut skins underfoot and boil the pigment out of them. Natural dyes will give leather a more subtle color than commercial pigments and are most suitable for doeskin or other naturally pale leathers. .

Heres a quick list of natural dye ingredients, all of which have been recommended for use in INK making, not necessarily strong enough for hide but it's worth investigating Silver fir, Mimosa, Green wattle, Sweet acacia, Blackwood, Golden wattle, Blue-leaved wattle, Amur maple, Mountain maple, Horse chestnut, Tree of heaven, Alder, Grey alder, White alder, Red alder, Sitka alder, Mountain alder, Marsh andromeda, Madrona, Strawberry tree, Bearberry, Coast banksia, Chitra, Siberian tea, Cherry birch, Silver birch, White birch, Mysore thorn, White cypress-pine, Red cypress-pine, Heather, Tea plant, Hottentot fig, Chestnut hybrids, Bush chinkapin, Japanese chestnut, American sweet chestnut, Chinese chestnut, Ozark chinkapin, Chinquapin, Sweet chetsnut, Chinese chinquapin, Chinknut, River sheoak, Carob, Spurge olive, Redoul, Cornelian cherry, Mountain dogwood, Hazel, Smoke tree, Berry-bearing, catchfly, Broom, Rimu, Native hops, Male fern, Lemon-scented gum, Ulmo, Stinkwood, Native cherry, Ash, Cut-leafed cranesbill, Spotted cranesbill, Wood avens, Chilean hazel, Honey locust, Gunnera, Witch hazel, Alpine heuchera, St. John's wort, Yellow flag, Japanese walnut, Heartseed walnut, Black walnut, Walnut, Larch, Dahurian larch, Japanese larch, Tamarack, Sub-alpine larch, Western larch, Larch, Siberian larch, Dunkeld hybrid larch, Labrador tea, Wild rosemary, Sea lavender, Tanbark oak, Oak galls. The only thing I have tried is Oak Galls settled in rust for two days, very rich black is the result.

That looks exactly like the stuff I get from LeathercordUSA.com - 2mm round lace... Here it is in black, it's from the natural dyed section not the regular colour section. We happily received a full selection of samples in a nice display too when we asked for it.

With iron and vinegar (which generally contains 4-8% acetic acid) you are making ferrous acetate when dissolving unrusted iron with the acetic acid in the vinegar and ferric acetate when dissolving rusted iron with the vinegar/acetic acid - The way I understand it and I'm not a chemist is the difference has to do with the oxide state of the iron - that determines whether is ferrous acetate Fe(C2H3O2)2 or ferric nitrate Fe2(C2H3O2)3. Ferric or ferrous nitrate on the other hand is made by dissolving one of the oxide forms of iron in nitric acid not vinegar so you are not making that. With walnut dye it's best to use the green ones when possible and make a syrup thick mixture by boiling and re-boiling as needed. Even then it is not a wipe on dye - the leather will need to soaked for varying amounts of time dependent on how dark one wishes. Some folks will say you need to add iron as a mordant and that is true for some cloths, but is not necessary with leather and if added will give you more of dirty gray brown rather than a brown brown. Some other original/natural dyes: Other period dyes: Logwood - various browns to black - you can get it from trapper's or some historical suppliers Cochineal - reds - mix with walnut or logwood fro reddish browns Walnut hulls - in general you need to make it strong and thick and leave the leather soak in it for a fair amount of time to get any real coloring Turmeric - yellows Madder root - reds Coffee - dark roast biled strong makes nice browns (may not be "period" but it works pretty good) Various barks (mostly inner) give good colors: i.e. willow gives reds to browns, oak bark gives browns See more here - all of the materials are available on line from various suppliers http://chestofbooks.com/reference/Henley-s-20th-Century-Formulas-Recipes-Processes-Vol2/Dyeing-Leather.html http://www.museum.state.il.us/muslink/pdfs/dye_plants.pdf

howdy Guys and gals here are some reciepies that ive gotten over the last few months hope these help all that are wondering bout natural dyes Here's some instructions for some of the old time dyes I'm working with these days: 1) Black: VINEGAR BLACK (aka Vinegaroon - these are original old formulas) For giving color to the grain of leather there is no blacking that will at all compare with the well known vinegar black. This may be made in various ways. The simplest, and, without doubt, the best, is to procure shavings from an iron turner and cover them with pure cider vinegar; heat up and set aside for a week or two, then heat again and set in a cool place for two weeks; pour off the vinegar, allow it to stand for a few days, and draw off and cork up in bottles. This will keep for a long time, and, while producing a deep black on leather, will not stain the hands. Another method is to cover iron scraps with sour beer, and allow them to stand for a month or more; then strain off the beer and bottle as before. A third method is to boil sulphate of iron in vinegar; mix some brewer's yeast with beer and allow it to stand for twenty four hours, then skim off the yeast and add the vinegar. Instead of iron shavings you can use steel wool. To use the steel wool burn off the oil first - I dip it in acetone and use a propane/blow torch and light it off in an old pan with a lid, just in case you need to put the flame out. Take all precautions and it will work fine. The only problem with steel wool is it often has copper and other metals in the "mix" which can sometimes add a greenish tint. After the "dye" (actually it's a reagent) dries I then neutralize with a slurry of baking soda and room temp water, about a 1/2 cup baking soda to a quart of water. Then I let the leather dry until just damp and apply a light coat or two of oil (I generally use olive oil, Lexol, Conditioner, or Lexol non-greasy Neats Foot). When the "dye" first dries it may look bluish or grayish at first and sometimes a second coat is needed, but normally the neutralizing and oil will turn it black. 2) Brown: I use black walnut hulls (If they are not available locally - the fresh green hulls are best - you can buy them dried on line from various vendors - to find a vendor search for walnut dye, etc.) Put a pound or so of the crushed hulls in an old stocking and place in a pan of distilled water so that the water covers the walnut hulls about an inch. Cover it and simmer at a low boil for several hours and then let cool overnight - keep an eye on the water level. The next day boil again and let cool overnight. Again watch that the water level does not get too low, but you do want it to get fairly thick. Once it's cool drain off the liquid be sure to squeeze all of the liquid out of the bundled walnut hulls. Save the walnut hulls - hang them up to dry and you can use them a couple of times more. The liquid will go bad so either keep it frozen or add 3/4 of a cup of rubbing alcohol to a quart of the dye. This is the dye I used on the Slim Jim in the DVD. It will come out anywhere from a light brown/gray to a dark grayish brown before oiling (I use light olive oil a lot for oiling and then set it in the sun to darken) - the color will depend on the leather - every piece is different, how long you let it soak, and how strong the dye is. I always do a test on a scrap of every new hide, I use only American tanned hides - mostly from Wickett & Craig. You can also mix the two dyes, which gave me a rusty/black on the pieces shown below. I used a 60/40 mix of walnut to vinegaroon on the belt and a 75/25 on the holster: MAKING COFFEE & NUT DYES = HOW TOO's Just so this doesn't get more complicated than it is. #1 , DARK ROAST COFFEE 1# CAN OR MORE, it's up to you, I make about 10 to 12 QT. with this, and I use a 20 qt. pot with lid, if you have a 20 qt. iron pot with lid , use it if you can lift it... #2, use some IRON, SHAVINGS, IRON NAILS NOT PLATED OR GALVANIZED, JUST SIMPLE IRON NAILS, a lot of your finish nails are iron, if it will rust, or will stick to a magnet it has IRON IN IT, but you want to clean off any oil or grease it may have on it before you put it in your pot, steel wool is OK but you have to burn the oil out of it, which is a pain, LOTS OF SMOKE. WITHOUT IRON AS A MORDANT, YOU CAN'T ACHIEVE MUCH COLOR, IF AT ALL......( IMHO ) especially if you want a deeper darker color. #3 with 10 to 12 QT. of water in your pot, bring it to a boil, then turn the flame down to a slow simmer, and let cook with the LID ON, for about three hours or so, let cool over night, and then do the same thing again the next day, if you want to cook it three or four days go ahead and do so, just make sure you keep your water up and don't let it boil dry, and leave the lid on through the whole process. #4 AFTER THE COFFEE DYE HAS COOLED, you can pour the whole works, COFFEE/COFFEE GRINDS/IRON/DYE, in a thick plastic container, for what ever size you need for what you're going to dye, ( small and deep for holsters ) ( large and flat for belts ) #5 PUT YOUR LEATHER in the container, and leave it SUBMERGED for 24 hours or more if you want. #6 REMOVE YOUR LEATHER from the container, if it is a holster , you want to do your wet molding now, and let dry for 24 HOURS. if it is a belt, lay it out straight, so it will dry the way you want it. #7 APPLY LEXOIL CONDITIONER, both sides of leather and let dry for a couple hours. #8 APPLY NEATSFOOT OIL, a couple coats should do, but you can vary the color with the amount of oil you put on, LET DRY OVER NIGHT. #9 THE FINISH is up to you, you can leave it the way it is now, or you can do like I did by using Gum Thraecanth at 40/60% water, and Bag Kote at 40/60% water, I use a spray bottle to apply this, just apply as you want and rub in, and when it looks the way you want , STOP... YOU can also finish your burnishing at this time. #10 IF YOU WANT AN ANTIQUE LOOKING holster or belt, you will want to bend and twist your leather, to put some wrinkles in the leather, and give the leather that used look. #11 AS A FINAL STEP, I apply a coat of Skidmores Leather Cream, #12 NOW YOU WANT TO STORE YOUR DYE, I put the works in a empty cleaned CAT LITTER container, and I add a 1/2 cup of Rubbing alcohol to every QT. of dye, put the lid on tight and store. #13 WHEN YOU WANT TO USE IT AGAIN, it will help to pour it all back in the pot and cook it again, the alcohol will burn off real quick, and you will have to add more at the end of your dying work, but this helps activate everything, you could even add more coffee at this time, #14 JUST A NOTE, your dye should look like OLD MOTOR OIL, a dirty black, the Mexican one loop holster I did was dyed for 24 hours, and you can see the color of the coffee that came out when the leather was oiled, so have fun with this, you can create just about any shade or color you want by testing on scrap leather. #15 When doing the NUT DYES, Get the nut as they have fallen off the tree, when the hulls are Green, you will get better color out of the Green hulls, you can use the other , but the green works best. you want to remove nuts after cooking and before submerging your leather in the dye, you can hang the nuts up in a stocking and let air dry, or you can freeze them and use them again, also when cooking the nuts, I like to cook them for three days with the cooling in between, and when dyeing I leave my leather work submerged for five days, this longer time allows the color pigment to really get into the leather. Follow up the same as the Coffee dye. I hope this will make it easier to follow how to make these dyes

Thanks Max, yeah Im really liking the Vinagroon way more than the black dye like I used on the WCC. Rawhide1 sent me some black walnuts Ive got em soaking now, Im gonna try making some dye with em, I'll post when I get something done with it so ya'll can see how it turns out. Id like to find out more about these natural dyeing methods, seems like this leather stuff just keeps opening up new projects. Really want to learn some braiding, Id love to do some grips braided like whip handles. That stuff is just really hard to self teach, would love to find a video that teaches it clearly.

Thank Chuck Burrows for this big link about walnut shells http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,21507.0.html This page starts to talk of where to get http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,21507.60.html There are Topics here on LW that also give specifics as to where to find...I just can't find them now. Do some multi searching here, include walnut, vinegaroon, natural dyes, etc. hopefully, someone with the specific answer will respond. But I hope I helped

Hey guys I was wondering if anyone thats into natural dyes tried coffee. I have played with a few pieces and sorry I dont have any pictures to post but have gotten a very very nice either really mild coffee color kind of like the baskins robbins icrcream (coffee flavored) to a much darker british tan/ saddle tan color once oiled. So far I have just boiled some coffee then strained it and let a couple of pieces sit over night to see what colors Id get. I dont have any projects that I can use it on right now though. Maybe in a week or so. Anyways I know holster makers are allways trying to find a streak free dye and usually in a natural color, if you are this is a cheap possibility for ya.

Thanks, Tom. I more or less copied those from originals I found photos of in Packing Iron. They're close but not replicas. The left one is reversed from a right strong side. I had to make the two stamps to make that fern pattern and another one for the running chevron pattern on the other one. The dyes were made from pecan hulls (the left one) and English walnut hulls (the right one). Thanks to Chuck Burrows for the recipe for natural dyes. Here's another one along the same vein done with Chuck's recipe for vinegaroon black.

Thanks for the link and all three of those ingredients are avalable from natural dye resources such as www.aurorasilk.com - they come from South/Central American trees......

My question is where in this order would you oil the leather? I have been using nothing but natural dye/stains, coffee, tea etc, and after abusing the leather with the staining, casing , and boning, it needs LOTS of reconditioning. I am going to try using commercial dye, and am not sure when to recondition the leather, before or after dying? Also I have been using Virgin Olive Oil, and it seem to work very well, the leather just sucks it up. Any problems with using this vs Neatsfoot oil or something else? This is the great thing about this forum and the people on it, it is a deep well of info that is freely offered and shared. Thanks Scott

I agree with using coffee for bone beads. If you're looking for a natural aged bone look (kinda like nicotine stained teeth) then coffee's your best bet. I just brew up some coffee and let the beads soak over night. I don't boil my coffee cause i enjoy a cup while they're soaking. Also different roasts produce different shades. Light roasts produce lighter stains and Darker roasts produce darker stains. You can also use dyes for bone beads too. I've used the royal blue pro dye to stain some bone beads for a choker and they came out great. Just make sure to seal them with a stain or super sheen after wards if using dyes. Coffee is the best natural dye. I've even heard of some people using other natural organic materials also such as berries, cactus, etc. Anything organic can make a great alternative to oil/water based dyes. What'd you think mankind used before Fiebings? Yup! All the things growing from the ground. If you're eco-friendly at heart anything organic can be used. Just be creative! I've experimented with lots of different biological orgnisms and i've been happy with the result. Just make sure to test it first on a scrap before you're actual experiement. Boiling does help. I've seen a couple fully tooled purses colored with nothing but cactus oils and juice. The colors were amazingly bright. Be creative.

Thanks everyone! I guess I will try it. It couldn't hurt. If it does work maybe coming up with some natural dyes to use with it.