My Sewing Machine Rant

[Tequila]

A few months ago I bought a new machine from one of the vendors that supports this forum.  My frustration and rant is not with the vendor it is with the trucking company.  The machine made it from the vendor’s location to the trucking company’s terminal that services my area in 4-5 days, I was tracking it and thought this is good.  That’s where the good feeling ends, since it was going to a residence the trucking company sent it to another outfit that handles their residential deliveries, that was over 3 weeks ago.  I’ve hit stone wall after stone wall and heard almost every excuse you can imagine, all the usuals (COVID, labor shortage, etc.) to the Final Four basketball game.  I offered to pick the machine up, that’s when I found out that it was loaded on a trailer and the company has to figure out which loaded trailer it’s on, so I can’t even pick it up.  The vendor has helped by getting their sales agent involved, I’ve called their national customer service number, but no one has been able to crack the code to get this delivered.  I don’t know about you but I’m tired of getting excuses and thinking that saying “I’m sorry” is going to make me feel better, sorry don’t feed the dog.   Ok rant is over for now.  

[Handstitched]

@Tequila Sorry to hear the frustrations you're going through atm. We too here in Oz aren't immune from courier & postal delivery delays.    This is a truly  horrible sickening thought, and pray its not the case,  but just wondering if the machine has been damaged and someone somewhere isn't telling you ? The vendor has been quite helpful by the sound of it.   Do you have a ' consumer affairs/ protection  dept'  or someone you can complain to? .  

I'm still waiting for some sealer & hardware  from Queensland ( in the east of Oz ) . It arrived at a depot in my state (only 3 hrs away) ...and thats where its stayed since March 29 . Postal tracking keeps saying ' its delayed ' and ask them to "investigate if it doesn't arrive"  It would be quicker for me to pick it up .  I'm starting to think  that some numb nuts has dropped it . 

Hope your machine arrives soon. 

HS

Edited April 8, 2022 by Handstitched

[suzelle]

Tequila,

Oh gee, that sounds horrible. Nice of you to point out it's not the fault of the Sewing Machine Dealer and I'm glad that person is involved in helping your sort out just where your machine is. I think I'd be pretty upset myself. I'm waiting for the delivery of a new Juki 1541S. Hoping all will be well, but it started out a little weird, I must admit. I was told just 3-4 days to get it to my address, which will be a Commercial address. No lift gate needed. So we will see. It's supposed to be here Monday for delivery now, which turns out to be more than twice the time they quoted, but it's nowhere near the length of time you have been waiting. Keeping fingers crossed for you!!! Hopefully if you cannot get your machine very very soon, you will be fully compensated and will be able to move forward in another direction. Good luck to you!

[Tequila]

Thanks folks I see I’m not alone here.  Wishing both better luck than I’m having 

[VIIXCIV]

I'm just going to quickly chime in and say one of the things which annoys me the most is incompetence. And I say this all the time. If you're going to do something, do it properly or don't bother doing it at all 

[MtlBiker]

@Tequila - That's gotta be tough... waiting and waiting and not even sure it'll ever get to you.  Crazy!

I'm going to add to the ranting with a little rant of my own... I placed an order through Amazon for a small item I really wanted (actually it's two small Arkansas oilstones which I would use for sharpening my awl blades).  Delivery was scheduled for almost 10 days out, on a Friday.  But on the Monday morning prior to that expected Friday delivery, I got a notice that it was out for delivery.  Only problem is that my office/business is closed on Mondays.  It's never been a problem with any other delivery or courier... they see we are closed, our business hours are clearly posted on the front door, and they always make a second delivery attempt the next day.  That's been the case for the delivery companies Amazon contracts to as well as Canada Post, Purolator, Canpar, UPS and FedEx.

But in this case the delivery company simply brought (supposedly) the package to a pickup location FIVE KM away!  (There are lots of dropoff/pickup locations much closer).  They made NO attempt on a second delivery (as Amazon tells me they are contracted to do).  So two days later I went to that pickup location and the package was not there.  The delivery location is a small corner store absolutely jam packed with candy, soft drinks and other stuff and it was the size of a larger cupboard.  The man running the place could hardly speak English and spoke no French and he couldn't find my tracking number in his records.  All the packages waiting for pickup were just stacked at the side of his counter.  No package.  I called Amazon and they agreed to refund the purchase and said that if I wanted the product to reorder it and they were sure this wouldn't happen again.  So I ordered again and guess what?  The same thing happened!  Scheduled delivery for a Friday but out for delivery on the Monday before.  And again sent to the pickup location without a second delivery attempt.  And again I went there only to find it wasn't there.  And even though it's possible that someone just picked it up (stole it) from the store because the packages are unattended, the man showed me his list of waybills received and mine wasn't there.  I suspect the courier company and particularly the driver.  I went through the whole customer support thing with Amazon and again they agreed to a "goodwill" refund.  And that they would "de-priortize" that delivery contractor for my future orders.  A week later, because I really wanted the product, I ordered for the third time, but this time used my home as the delivery address.  And it was finally delivered!  Left at my door by the same delivery service (so much for de-prioritizing them) but obviously a different driver.

Now my little less than $100 order doesn't compare with your several thousand dollar sewing machine, but the frustration (and yes, anger) certainly was there.

I hope you get your machine soon, and that everything works out well in the end.

 

[Dwight]

2 hours ago, Tequila said:

Thanks folks I see I’m not alone here.  Wishing both better luck than I’m having 

I know it was probably not an option for you . . . but it won't take you long to figure out why I personally drove there and picked up both of my machines.

May God bless,

Dwight

[kgg]

8 hours ago, Tequila said:

My frustration and rant is not with the vendor it is with the trucking company.

I do hope you do get the machine. I assume you paid for the machine the day you ordered it months ago. How long is the vendor going to let this go on before they declare it lost / stolen and ship another machine or refund your money.

It seems this is happening more often these days. Most times it isn't the vendor at fault except they choose the shipper to handle the item. It doesn't seem to matter whether it is a small envelope size item or something needing a pallet.  I ordered 25 meters (82 feet) of 21 oz canvas which is 60 inches wide. So it isn't a small package. The vendor had it pickup up by NationEx on Feb 8 in Montreal, Quebec who handed it off to Midland in Toronto, Ontario. who shipped it to Moncton, New Brunswick then someone figured out it needed to go back to Toronto, Ontario. It then was shipped to Ottawa, Ontario where Midland handed it off to Canex who did the final delivery to me on Feb. 17. I asked the vendor if it came with a mileage warranty. At least I did get the item where as a small envelope sized item I order from Amazon being sold by an US supplier on Feb. 17 is still on a walkabout.

My main rant these days is the shipping costs. I was am looking for two single hole singer style sewing machine hinges and found them in the US for $5.10 plus shipping plus import taxes to Ontario, Canada. I decided against the purchase as the shipping cost was $16.95 US.

kgg

Edited April 8, 2022 by kgg
spelling

[eblanche]

I know most on this thread have not had decent experiences lately, but I have to say, I was just shipped a crated up machine (to a commercial address) from Pennsylvania to New Hampshire and the process was smooth. From hanging up the phone after payment mid morning Thursday to delivery the following Tuesday mid afternoon. This includes the weekend which freight typically doesn't account for. The cost was IMO very reasonable and much less than estimated quotes from back in December. Total shipping/crating costs of less than $200.

There is hope and the fact the vendor is working with you is a good sign. With the recent ongoings, it could very well be held up in a trailer just waiting for a truck to take it along. In my experience, you can't let up and keep trying to contact the necessary people. Talk to the right people and they'll find your machine and be able to tell you what the hold up has been.

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by eblanche
more content

[jrdunn]

@Tequila,

I know this won't help you now.  When I ordered my CB4500 from Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, I had it delivered to my local feed store(A place I visit reuglarly.).  They have a dock and a forklift, no problem.  I have a forklift too but would have to make an appointment for them to deliver, take off work.  If they miss a delivery date, we go through it again.  It all worked out great.  I made the manager a token "gift", everyone was happy.  Bob Kovar at Toledo said that it wasn't the first time to deliver to a feed store.  I suppose any other cooperative business with a dock or forklift would work.  I guess I'm just more comfortable around people with bovine feces on their footwear.  Maybe this will help you if you have to have it reshipped or you order another later.  Maybe it will help someone else.  As with most of my posts, it's JM2C.

Jim

[Spyros]

17 hours ago, Tequila said:

A few months ago I bought a new machine from one of the vendors that supports this forum.  My frustration and rant is not with the vendor it is with the trucking company.  The machine made it from the vendor’s location to the trucking company’s terminal that services my area in 4-5 days, I was tracking it and thought this is good.  That’s where the good feeling ends, since it was going to a residence the trucking company sent it to another outfit that handles their residential deliveries, that was over 3 weeks ago.  I’ve hit stone wall after stone wall and heard almost every excuse you can imagine, all the usuals (COVID, labor shortage, etc.) to the Final Four basketball game.  I offered to pick the machine up, that’s when I found out that it was loaded on a trailer and the company has to figure out which loaded trailer it’s on, so I can’t even pick it up.  The vendor has helped by getting their sales agent involved, I’ve called their national customer service number, but no one has been able to crack the code to get this delivered.  I don’t know about you but I’m tired of getting excuses and thinking that saying “I’m sorry” is going to make me feel better, sorry don’t feed the dog.   Ok rant is over for now.  

Oh yeah sounds about right.  The seller put mine on a pallet, wrapped it up like a baby, and she plastered a note literally everywhere saying WHEN RECEIVED CALL THIS NUMBER (My number).  That was our agreement that I would pick it up from the depot when they call me.  Which of course they didn't. 

The machine arrived at the depot and stayed there for 4 weeks, during which time the tracking number online was simply saying "In transit".  And because it said that I was late to start making phone calls, and when I did they told me all the usual excuses first, and eventually (5th phone call) someone said "oh it's here at the depot come and get it".  Now, finding the god damned depot was another story.  First address they sent me to, a lady told me "oh it's a pallet, you got to go to the big packages depot" and she hands me a piece of paper with directions.  And it wasn't bad enough that it was on those industrial areas in hell's armpit that barely have street names and numbers, but the depot didn't even have the actual courier's name anywhere, not on google and not on the building, because the depot might be owned by someone else, who leases it to FEDEX for example, and FEDEX might have agreements with other couriers to also operate out of that depot. 

So the paper she gave me said something like "drive to Block 15A in Bogansville behind MacDonalds, keep going south until you see XYZ bulding".  And you go there and there's like 30 industrial buildings with trucks and forklits going in and out, that all look about the same and don't really have names or signs because everyone there knows which one is their building.  Except me of course.  So I had to go into literally all of them one by one and ask, and eventually I found the right building.  Now to find the machine was also another story, because it was a giant building with pallets everywhere.  First step was to talk to the guy at the office, to whom I gave the tracking number.  And he took that 10 digit tracking number and somehow converted it to like 10,000 keystrokes on his computer, I don't know how or why but he typed a whole novel.  Half way into authoring his masterpiece he stopped and asked me a few questions, then kept typing for a while, and he finally managed to narrow down the search area to one quadrant of the total depot, and then we started THE SEARCH.  Except of course I wasn't actually allowed in there so I just stayed at the sidelines yelling things like "SHE SAID SHE WRAPPED IT IN BLACK PLASTIC, EITHER BLACK OR BLUE I CANT REMEMBER"  and "DID YOU LOOK BEHIND THAT CONTAINER I CAN SEE SOMETHING, OH THAT'S A BICYCLE SORRY"

On the upside when we finally found it, they had a true forklift artist who managed to squeeze it into my tiny van with half an inch to spare on each side and the top. Amazing to watch him work it was like the forks were extensions of his hands.  The guy could probably clip his toenails with a forklift.

Anyway that was the "machine pick up day" as I call it, I started my quest early in the morning and by the time I managed to take it out the car and into the shed all by myself and put it together the sun was already going down.

Sounds like you're very close, you'll have a lot of fun soon.  it's all worth it mate  

 

Edit:  It is amazing to me that Logistics, an industry that has been around for literally thousands of years, is still in such a state.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Spyros

[suzelle]

6 hours ago, Spyros said:

Sounds like you're very close, you'll have a lot of fun soon.  it's all worth it mate  

Edit:  It is amazing to me that Logistics, an industry that has been around for literally thousands of years, is still in such a state.

Spyros, you are a good writer!

[Handstitched]

18 hours ago, Tequila said:

Thanks folks I see I’m not alone here.

No, you're definitely not alone friend .  With such a large purchase and investment , theres always going to be a certain amount of stress & anxiety . I felt the very same when I paid for my machine.  Then the cheeky b***ard courier asked me to pick it up from his depot. I reminded him in no uncertain terms that I paid for delivery.....to my house.   A few expletives,  later it arrives  at my house. 

7 hours ago, Spyros said:

Edit:  It is amazing to me that Logistics, an industry that has been around for literally thousands of years, is still in such a state.

We would think that with all the technology in the  21st century ,  our hard earned purchases  & investments would arrive on time and in tact .  The logistics industry in Oz  is a mess. Granted, we had COVID, but now things are returning to a , dare I say " normal" ?   

HS 

[Spyros]

3 hours ago, suzelle said:

Spyros, you are a good writer!

You made my day, I learned English later in life and sometimes still struggle with it.  Much appreciated

[Spyros]

3 hours ago, Handstitched said:

We would think that with all the technology in the  21st century ,  our hard earned purchases  & investments would arrive on time and in tact .  The logistics industry in Oz  is a mess. Granted, we had COVID, but now things are returning to a , dare I say " normal" ?   

HS 

2,500 years ago Xerxes took an army of hundreds of thousands to Greece, and along the way he had to keep them fed, watered, clothed, armed and sheltered by carrying tonnes and tonnes of provisions daily across seas and foreign lands.  His generals did that.  They did.  2,500 years ago.  800 years ago Marco Polo was bringing merchantise from China to Italy through hostile Mongol hordes, in uncharted territories, on roads that basically didn't exist. 

Us here?  Feels like we can't send a burger and chips to the faraway table without it getting cold.

Edited April 9, 2022 by Spyros

[Sheilajeanne]

Yup! Have any of you seen this thread about the adventures of a parcel Frodo tried to send to Romania??

https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/92890-is-the-customer-ever-going-to-get-his-package/?tab=comments#comment-634435

Oh, and my niece tried to send a Christmas gift to her sister in Manitoba, from Waterloo, Ontario. It was first sent to New Brunswick! 

So, Canada's not doing too much better! 

 

 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Sheilajeanne

[Tequila]

Here is status directly from the shippers web page, the pallet left the vendor on 3/9/22, so 4 days to get to the shipper’s terminal in Hammond, LA.  I’m starting to forget what I ordered or why 

Shipment History

 

03/15/2022

Awaiting Delivery - Freight Given to Final Delivery Agent

03/15/2022 8:30 AM

03/13/2022

Arrived at Hammond, LA (085) delivery facility

03/13/2022 3:11 PM

[Frodo]

Have patience my friend

here is tracking from one of my ordeals.  This thing bounced around like a basket ball 

If you want your package found. submit a claim.  That will get some attention 

 

Tracking History

December 25, 2020, 7:40 pm
Departed
NEWARK, UNITED STATES
Your item departed a transfer airport in NEWARK INTERNATIONAL, NEWARK, UNITED STATES on December 25, 2020 at 7:40 pm. The item is currently in transit to the destination.

---

December 24, 2020, 5:02 pm
Arrived
NEWARK, UNITED STATES

---

December 21, 2020, 1:45 pm
Processed Through Regional Facility
JAMAICA NY INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

December 21, 2020, 11:44 am
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
JAMAICA NY INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

December 21, 2020, 11:44 am
Arrived at Regional Facility
JAMAICA NY INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

December 17, 2020
In Transit to Next Facility

---

December 13, 2020, 11:02 am
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
MIAMI FL INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

December 9, 2020, 12:56 pm
Departed USPS Regional Facility
JACKSON MS DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

December 2, 2020, 2:02 pm
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
JACKSON MS DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

December 2, 2020, 10:06 am
Departed USPS Facility
OXFORD, MS 38675 

---

December 2, 2020, 6:45 am
Arrived at USPS Facility
OXFORD, MS 38675 

---

December 1, 2020, 1:12 pm
Arrived at USPS Facility
DISTRICT HEIGHTS, MD 20747 

---

December 1, 2020, 12:08 pm
Departed USPS Regional Facility
MERRIFIELD VA DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

November 29, 2020, 9:49 am
Departed USPS Regional Facility
DULLES VA DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

November 29, 2020, 6:05 am
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
MERRIFIELD VA DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

November 29, 2020, 2:13 am
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
DULLES VA DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

November 27, 2020, 9:57 am
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
JAMAICA NY INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

November 23, 2020, 9:16 am
Departed USPS Regional Facility
MIAMI FL INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

November 22, 2020, 3:07 pm
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
MIAMI FL INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

November 22, 2020, 2:17 pm
Departed USPS Regional Facility
OPA LOCKA FL DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

November 22, 2020, 4:23 am
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
OPA LOCKA FL DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

November 20, 2020, 9:56 pm
Departed USPS Regional Facility
JACKSON MS DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

November 18, 2020, 9:35 pm
Arrived at USPS Regional Facility
JACKSON MS DISTRIBUTION CENTER 

---

November 18, 2020, 11:04 am
USPS in possession of item
BROOKHAVEN, MS 39601 

Edited April 9, 2022 by Frodo

[suzelle]

5 hours ago, Spyros said:

You made my day, I learned English later in life and sometimes still struggle with it.  Much appreciated

Well good then, you deserve it! I think we are generally better students later in life than we were when we were younger. I started out in life speaking both English and Spanish, just wish I had more opportunity to speak Spanish on a daily basis now, but always love it when I get the chance to speak Spanish to a person who does not understand English. I'm rusty but it is sure fun! Good way to bond with someone too, just trying.

[PAMuzzle]

sorry you are in the situation.  Happened to me for a much smaller package going by USPS/FedEx.

i bought a sewing machine also.  I am 60 miles from the supplier.  Picked mine up like Dwight.  Didn’t want to pay for shipping since I was so close, much less wait for it to arrive. 

[fredk]

This may not add much but may amuse yaw'l

This goes back a long time, pre-internet days. Time when we used fax machines

I needed some parts for my old Cadillac, a '78 Coupe DeVille. I sourced the parts from a breaker in Alaska, of all places.

They sent the parts out afternoon their time via FEDEX. The parts were in Northern Ireland about 36 hours later!

That's the good part. The parcel then spent the next 25 days in FEDEX depots

FEDEX had two depots in N.I. One serving the west of the country and one serving the east side. My parcel spent over 3 weeks being transferred between the depots

When someone had drawn a line on the map of N.I. to show which area each depot delivered into the person had used a broad tip marker [sharpie?] and the thick line had gone right through and over my house! [I was shown the map later] On one side my neighbour was delivered by FEDEX West and a neighbour on the other side was delivered by FEDEX East, but neither depot could decide which of them I came under.

What didn't help was that nearly all the FEDEX workers were not N.I. people so they had no idea that either depot could have delivered. It was resolved when they got in a part-time driver who knew me. Officially, he had me 'redirect' my parcel to my place of work then he delivered it there the same day

Eventually FEDEX closed their depots and handed deliveries to another courier company, which had a single depot for the whole country

[Tequila]

@Frodo  holy crap!

[JHLeatherwood]

On 4/9/2022 at 3:46 PM, Frodo said:

Have patience my friend

here is tracking from one of my ordeals.  This thing bounced around like a basket ball 

If you want your package found. submit a claim.  That will get some attention 

 

The buyer can't submit a claim - the courier hasn't delivered it. Only the shipper can submit a claim for lost or damaged merchandises if it hasn't been accepted by the buyer.

 

[Spyros]

5 hours ago, fredk said:

This may not add much but may amuse yaw'l

This goes back a long time, pre-internet days. Time when we used fax machines

I needed some parts for my old Cadillac, a '78 Coupe DeVille. I sourced the parts from a breaker in Alaska, of all places.

They sent the parts out afternoon their time via FEDEX. The parts were in Northern Ireland about 36 hours later!

That's the good part. The parcel then spent the next 25 days in FEDEX depots

FEDEX had two depots in N.I. One serving the west of the country and one serving the east side. My parcel spent over 3 weeks being transferred between the depots

When someone had drawn a line on the map of N.I. to show which area each depot delivered into the person had used a broad tip marker [sharpie?] and the thick line had gone right through and over my house! [I was shown the map later] On one side my neighbour was delivered by FEDEX West and a neighbour on the other side was delivered by FEDEX East, but neither depot could decide which of them I came under.

What didn't help was that nearly all the FEDEX workers were not N.I. people so they had no idea that either depot could have delivered. It was resolved when they got in a part-time driver who knew me. Officially, he had me 'redirect' my parcel to my place of work then he delivered it there the same day

Eventually FEDEX closed their depots and handed deliveries to another courier company, which had a single depot for the whole country

Fred, guess how much things have changed since then!  (spoiler alert: not a lot).

I used to be in the waste industry until recently, working for a multi-billion company that has a massive fleet of garbage trucks that collect waste in many countries.  Big massive customers like the MacDonalds/Councils/Tescos of this world.  Now, a garbage truck is very much like a school bus, right? It starts from the depot and does the same route every day, same time, same stops, picking up the same rubbish bins.  Think of it as a loop on a map with dozens or even hundreds of pick up points along the way.  And every depot has multiple loops originating from it, because every depot has 50-100 trucks working every day.

So what happens when you have a new big customer with multiple new rubbish bins to be picked up in multiple locations?  How do they decide which loop they will assign them to? Some would be located directly on those loops, but some would be further out which means some routes would need to be stretched out a little, or a lot.  They also have to think about availability because pick up times have to align with the truck schedule, you can't pick up early in the morning a bin that the customer tells you they will be rolling out later in the afternoon.   And you have to think about the size of the bin because some trucks have a system that only picks up small size bins like your residential wheelie bins, other trucks only pick up medium, others only big skip bins, and so on.  And you have to think about the type of waste because you can't mix recyclables and general garbage in the same truck.  And you can't overload a route with too many pick ups because by law a driver can only drive so many hours a day, and a truck can only carry so much waste.  And you have to do all your calculations by day of the week, because bigger bins are not picked up every day, and you can't pick up on Mondays a bin that is only available on Tuesdays. And all that before you even start thinking about traffic, tolls and road works.  You have to find the most efficient way of doing those pick ups because trucks/drivers/fuel can get very expensive very quickly.   

So it is a bit complex, it's like solving a giant Sudoku. I can hear you saying "Thank God we have computers and all that intelligent software these days!"  Right?  Right?

Nope :D

What they do is just give the problem to a guy.  Usually a 60 year old guy with decades experience, usually a former driver himself.  And he locks himself up in a room for a week with a "do not disturb" sign outside and thinks about it.  Basically no computers are involved, just a printed map, red pen, pencil, eraser and a big cup of coffee.  That's it man, that's all they got in the year of our Lord 2022. 

I imagine that's not very different than how Xerxes's generals did it 2,500 years ago.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Spyros

[Sheilajeanne]

Wow, that's very interesting, Spyros!

Reminds me of when I was doing visiting nursing. One of the most important jobs was the coordinator that assigned the calls to all the nurses. Our company covered a very large geographic area, the company had to reimburse us for mileage, and some of the calls were timed calls, such as antibiotics that had to be given within a one hour time frame.  The coordinator also had to take into account where each nurse lived, and try to assign calls that weren't too far from her home.

I did not envy those people their jobs, but they were VERY good at it!  I may have forgotten the names of some of the nurses I worked with, but I still remember the one coordinator because she was so very good at her job, and sympathetic to the stresses the nurses were under too. Things could change very rapidly throughout the day, too. You could start a day out with 3 or 4 calls and end up with as many as 13!

My husband got very used to me telling him, "I'll be home for supper when I'm done. And NO I have no idea exactly when that will be!"