Belt Thread

[Outfitr]

I don't do a lot of belts. If I did I'd certainly get a good machine. I try to incorporate stitching in all my projects because I love the look of good hand stitching...just a personal thing. Fortunately I'm more of a hobbyist, if takes me longer I'm ok with that. Here's another one I just completed.

 

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, kgg said:

There is always going to be market for items completely hand sewn and those willing to pay for the extra time

 Bingo. Someone has to make the stuff on the top shelf.

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Outfitr said:

I don't do a lot of belts. If I did I'd certainly get a good machine. I try to incorporate stitching in all my projects because I love the look of good hand stitching...just a personal thing. Fortunately I'm more of a hobbyist, if takes me longer I'm ok with that. Here's another one I just completed.

 

your work is definitely top notch stuff. I don't mind hand sewing its kind of relaxing. plus i can do it out in the back yard in the summer or just about anywhere.

[JLSleather]

On 3/6/2023 at 9:24 AM, PastorBob said:

Others will know for sure, but I would guess 277 thread with a 25 needle.

Close   277 and #24 needle (LL point - it matters).

I've hand sewn quite a few belts, and many other items.  Still do sometimes... as the situation calls.  But its NEAR IMPOSSIBLE to find a GOOD sewing awl/haft these days.  Everything is basically JUNK or JUNK.  Yeah, yeah.. somebody will pop in to say you have to spend for the "good" ones, but I'm not one who buys into that garbage that more expensive = better.

So the machines do a good bit of the work

[Hags]

Roger that Doc. Arthritis and my time is worth something. I bought a cobra class 3 and never looked back.  Been about 2 years and many holsters, belts, knife sheaths, axe covers, and who knows what else. Wouldn't have been able to do all that by hand. But, I still do the occasional handstitched item that is just to small or awkward to fit in the machine.

[chuck123wapati]

19 hours ago, kgg said:

There is always going to be market for items completely hand sewn and those willing to pay for the extra time but the market is much smaller then similar items sewn with machines.

You are getting 8 hours of sleep? Hell I only get 5, I feel cheated.

You'd be lucky to get a good machine for $1500. Since a hobbyist should be able to get at least 10 years out of a machine so the machine would cost $150 per year. If you were just doing belts that would be 7.5 belts or 7.5 hours of machine time plus cost of electricity to run a 1hp servo motor for 7.5 hours which would be $1.40 ((1hp=746watts) /1000 x .25 cents per kilowatt hour of electricity x 7.5 hrs = $1.398).

kgg

funny thing yesterday i went over to a customers house to pick up some work. His wife showed me her quilting sewing machine over $12, 000 bucks she has into it and its just her hobby. doesn't sell just makes and gives away but man its awesome. just program the thing and it sews, it even counts the stitches, all she does is  adjust her quilt. Any pic any design. She uses her regular machine for the front piece but this bugger for the quilting of the complete piece. i admire quilters for the amount of sewing they accomplish, my granny made them by hand back in the 70,s and 80s still using only a treadle singer her dad bought her as a young woman.

You know when  I can afford a machine, if i ever can, better than my Chinese patcher, i will surely get it and use it and love it just like everyone else, heck i love my patcher and my old singer slantomatic. But on one hand it seems kind of anti climatic sometimes i mean a guy spend hours hand making, hand tooling  a project then in the end drop the hand sewing and pull out the old machine. In the end there is no right or wrong way only the way each of us wants to do it or in my case can afford to do it lol. On the other hand and honestly I would use one if i had one unless i had a customer who wanted different. I'm not a top shelf guy my tooling work isn't good enough and will never be at my age I'm past having the time to gain the experience. 

[kgg]

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

His wife showed me her quilting sewing machine over $12, 000 bucks she has into it and its just her hobby.

Yes the quilting people do spend a lot on their tables let alone their machines where the sky is the limit. Most of use, me included, complain and ponder about spending any amount for a new machine. Some hobbies are more expensive then others.

kgg

[Handstitched]

13 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

His wife showed me her quilting sewing machine over $12, 000 bucks she has into it and its just her hobby.

One of my friends is a ' quilter' and  she showed me her very  ex$y machine, around the $12-14k mark.  OMG !! Very impressive. She does it as business and does great work and just one quilt could be in the hundreds. 

The machines I could buy with $12k?? 

HS

[chuck123wapati]

6 hours ago, Handstitched said:

One of my friends is a ' quilter' and  she showed me her very  ex$y machine, around the $12-14k mark.  OMG !! Very impressive. She does it as business and does great work and just one quilt could be in the hundreds. 

The machines I could buy with $12k?? 

HS

lol if i had an extra 12 k to spend I would be setting in an ice hut drinking hot toddies and jigging for walleyes and buyin my leather goods already made.

[Doc Reaper]

22 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

lol if i had an extra 12 k to spend I would be setting in an ice hut drinking hot toddies and jigging for walleyes and buyin my leather goods already made.

I’d have that and a pretty waitress serving us food too, but at a warm beach

[Bert03241]

2 hours ago, Doc Reaper said:

I’d have that and a pretty waitress serving us food too, but at a warm beach

[Stephen111]

Step-by-step assembly of the electrician's tool belt. Step 1: Choose a sturdy belt with pockets of different sizes. Step 2: Hold your most important tools in your dominant hand. Step 3: Store less-used tools on the secondary side. Step 4: Add/remove or change pockets.Step 5 - Use braces to support the weight.

[JLSleather]

On 3/11/2023 at 8:30 AM, chuck123wapati said:

 I would use one if i had one

this is likely true.

On 3/11/2023 at 8:30 AM, chuck123wapati said:

at my age I'm past having the time to gain the experience

this is likely not.

 

[AussieTanker]

On 3/11/2023 at 1:03 AM, Outfitr said:

This is what I usually use, .8 tiger thread, 4mm hole spacing. All hand done...about 4 hrs of stitching per belt. I think it looks better than machine stitch but is it worth the time?? Not sure.

That is one mighty fine looking belt. Is it hand tooled as well? If so, how many hours to make the entire belt,  start to finish? I also really like the colours that you used.  It's beautiful!

On 3/7/2023 at 1:59 AM, Handstitched said:

My machine is set up for 277 M10, #24 needle. 

Thank you for that info.  It's really helpful

On 3/11/2023 at 4:48 AM, kgg said:

You'd be lucky to get a good machine for $1500.

What would a reasonably priced machine cost? Not top level, but one suitable for an enthusiastic hobbyist.

 

I have seen some basic sewing machines advertised in the headers on this website. They are hand operated.  You pull a lever and the needle and thread moves forward one or two positions. They seem like they might be an easier starting point,  altho I think that they might be rather tedious in a long belt, considering how many times you would need to pull that lever down.  Does anyone have any thoughts on those types of machines?

Edited August 27, 2023 by AussieTanker

[dikman]

There's been a few posts on here about the advantages/disadvantages and use of those "one-arm bandits" but being in Oz those machines aren't going to be easy to find. I looked at importing a 441-class machine from China (where the prices are fairly reasonable) but by the time all the other costs were added in there was no advantage so I bought local. And since then shipping costs have skyrocketed. Living in Oz gives us limited choices.

[Handstitched]

22 hours ago, AussieTanker said:

They are hand operated. 

Are you refering to the tippman boss  machine?  If thats the case, imagine doing a few belts, using one of those ?  After a while your hand would seize up .Ouch !! Its bad enough cutting out a few hundred holes  on a bag using a rotary punch. 

3 hours ago, dikman said:

And since then shipping costs have skyrocketed. Living in Oz gives us limited choices.

  I'm glad I got my machine when I did, it came from Q Stitch in Capalaba  Qld.  All my needles, thread etc. also come from SMA  Qld.  

HS

[kgg]

23 hours ago, AussieTanker said:

Does anyone have any thoughts on those types of machines?

Every machine has it's place each with their own individual pro's and cons. On the manual heavy duty market there are presently three one armed bandits available, that I known of. The Tippman Boss coming in at about $1000 USD for a basic machine then you have the Cowboy Outlaw at about $1400 USD and the most expensive machine being the Weaver Master Tool Cub at about $2000 USD. I almost bought a one armed bandit last year myself but after a lot of thought I decide to go with a 441 clone. Stuff the item under the needle and push the go pedal. Everyone's situation is different and a manual machine may well serve your needs. Before investing in one be honest and consider the cons, do they out weight the pros. Once you buy one you are basically going to be stuck with it for awhile.

What thickness of leather are you planning on sewing and with what size of thread? Since you are looking at the one armed bandits a cylinder arm machine like the Juki LS-341 or LS-1341 or similar clone with a table attachment may work.

kgg

Edited August 28, 2023 by kgg

[Heartless]

the cost of a one armed bandits just makes no sense to me.. far too expensive for what they are.

especially the Weaver one.. for just a couple hundred more I can get a Class 26 cylinder arm (or similar)... why would anyone pay $2000 for a manually operated machine??

[fredk]

I bought a 'Boss'

To answer some questions, in order in which I think of them

1. Speed; I like to  work at a speed I like, not at the speed a machine wants me to. I've converted my Singer 99K to manual

2. Time of use; I live in a small flat/apartment, surrounded by others. Families in those frequently change. Currently above and to my left are families with very young children. I need to work quietly. Late at night they can even hear a an electric drill or my washing machine. I can use the Boss at 2am if I want to

3. Size; I have the Boss bolted on to an extension to a desk.  It has a 'foot print' of about 15 x 10 inches, smaller than my Singer 99K. Any of the powered machines I considered  were much larger. And many need their own work table. I simply do not have the room

4. Power; Any powered machine I considered did not use UK electric. On top of the main price I would have had to pay a minimum of £300 extra to get it converted over. Also, power cuts, (outages ? to you) whilst neither common nor frequent, they do happen. No worries with the Boss. I used to do craft shows, so if I want to I can pack the Boss and take it along. No worries if the show is outside in a field or an old castle somewhere, I don't need power, just a table and some clamps or ~ I've considered getting a piece of tree trunk and drilling it for using coach-screws to hold the Boss

5. Use; I do not sew belts I make. I make smaller items using thick-ish leather. Thus it doesn't take long to do anything, At the moment I just use mine to make holes for saddle-stitching by hand

5a. Use (#2); you set your powered machine to 4 spi and zip along. But what if some of the holes/stitching don't fall just where you want them? With a manual machine you can adjust where the holes will be easier by seeing them come up more slowly. Yes you can do the same on a powered machine but not just as easily

6. Exercise?! Its not your hand, its the muscle in your upper arm (bicep?) which gets exercised! Its what one gets used to. Such upper arms exercises are no stranger to me. Sore & tired? Just take a short break. After a few sessions your time sewing lengthens and the time for breaks shortens

7. A 'Boss'; will hold its value more readily that powered machines. Any 2nd hand powered machines I considered all needed attention, ie work to make them work. I got a  comprehensive new Boss outfit for less than the price of one of those very used and broken powered machines here. Good powered machines will hold their value as well but good used are hard to find. A new machine with guarantee is better than a used machine with none imo

[AussieTanker]

On 8/28/2023 at 8:14 AM, dikman said:

looked at importing a 441-class machine from China (where the prices are fairly reasonable) but by the time all the other costs were added in there was no advantage so I bought local.

Thanks for that info.  What machine did you end up getting and where did you get it from.  Are you happy with it?

On 8/28/2023 at 11:39 AM, Handstitched said:

 I'm glad I got my machine when I did, it came from Q Stitch in Capalaba  Qld.  All my needles, thread etc. also come from SMA  Qld.  

Thanks for that.  I will google them.  And might send you a private message closer to the time that I'm ready to purchase of that's ok

On 8/28/2023 at 12:39 PM, kgg said:

What thickness of leather are you planning on sewing and with what size of thread? Since you are looking at the one armed bandits a cylinder arm machine like the Juki LS-341 or LS-1341 or similar clone with a table attachment may work.

TBH in not really sure.  I'm only just starting my leathercraft journey.  It's really just gathering info and ideas at this point in time.

On 8/28/2023 at 9:54 PM, fredk said:

I bought a 'Boss'

To answer some questions, in order in which I think of them

Thank you.  That was very helpful!

[Dwight]

I have a Boss and a Cowboy 4500 . . . will one day in the near future sell the Boss as I've just about learned all the old tricks I did with the Boss . . . now on the Cowboy.

Belts with a Boss. . . you betcha . . . about 10 minutes each side . . . vs 2 1/2 hours per side hand stitching.

Boss was the best 1K I've spent in all my money making ventures of 78 years . . . not as much fun as some of my toys . . . but my toys are not money makers . . . the Boss is.

To top it off . . . Tippmann has been great to work with as far as problems are concerned.  Great people to work with.

Toledo sales did my Cowboy . . . have nothing bad to say about them either.

May God bless,

Dwight

 

[dikman]

On 9/3/2023 at 1:06 AM, AussieTanker said:

Thanks for that info.  What machine did you end up getting and where did you get it from.  Are you happy with it?

I bought a Cowboy 4500 from Sun Valley Trading, in Qld. I only bought the head unit as I already had a suitable table and servo to use with it. They are very good people to deal with. I have to admit I haven't used it much as I seem to keep getting distracted from leatherwork and doing other things. But it's a lovely machine.

I see they also have the Cowboy Outlaw for $1800.

[AussieTanker]

13 hours ago, dikman said:

I bought a Cowboy 4500 from Sun Valley Trading, in Qld.

Thank you.  I will probably go the same route when I'm ready.  Appreciate the heads up!

[Cattleman]

I bought a Cowboy Outlaw after I hand sewed the first belt I made... Never again, will I hand sew a belt without charging a healthy premium.

 

I chose the Outlaw for a few reasons:

1) its built heavy duty

2)many of the parts are exactly the same as some of the better known powered machines.

3) it's a cylinder arm machine

4) it has a pretty decent throat

5) from my research it seems to be more user friendly than the Cub or Boss.

 

There are a few things that I wish were better with it, but none so glaring as to make me not recommend it to other beginning craftsmen or hobbists. The only thing that I find to be somewhat frustrating in the stitch length adjustment is a little sensitive and definetaly takes a little getting uses to.

In the first year of having it I figure it nearly paid for itself... Just in saved time alone.

[Outfitr]

Quote

That is one mighty fine looking belt. Is it hand tooled as well? If so, how many hours to make the entire belt,  start to finish? I also really like the colours that you used.  It's beautiful!

Hey thanks a lot. Sorry didn't answer sooner. Yes all hand tooled. Total hrs., man I'm not sure really. Floral tooling ones definitely take me the longest although I'm getting faster on the tooling part. I also really liked how the colors came out on that one.