Tipmann Boss, Cowboy Outlaw, Weaver Cub

[thenrie]

I'm trying to make a final decision on one of these three machines. My primary use will be stitching saddle skirts, bridles, belts, chaps, spur straps, and other horse-related gear, mostly for my use, gifts, and occasionally to sell. I sometimes refurbish older saddles, as well. My main reason for looking for a stitcher is that, while I enjoy hand stitching, it takes me around 8 hours of hand stitching to complete a pair of saddle skirts. That would come down to a matter of 30 minutes with a stitching machine, and I just have too many projects to spend that much time on saddle skirts. I have searched the forum and not yet found anything comparing the first two machines to the Cub.

If this machine ever "pays for itself" I will be very happy, but I'm not in this for the money. This is not a business decision. I want a manual stitcher that is easy to use, gives me the least amount of trouble over the long haul, and can sit quietly in a back corner of my workbench until needed. I am quite mechanically inclined and have refurbished a Singer 111W155, so the mechanics, threading, adjustment will not be a problem unless the machine itself has problems.

I have long wished for a Tipmann Boss, but I have read many posts and threads about problems with them, although I have seen pretty good reviews about their customer service. One thing I really like about the Boss is the new kit to give it a reverse stitch, which neither of the other two machines has. That is the one thing I wish my Singer had, but as far as saddle skirts, it really doesn't make a difference. The current price of a Tipmann Boss is $1000, but that doesn't include a guide or some other accessories I will likely need. The kit for most of that runs $280, so I'm still coming in around $1,500 with shipping, etc. I don't know what the reverse kit costs.

The Cowboy Outlaw seems to be a very similar machine, with a little longer throat. I like that the body is made of cast iron, as opposed to the case aluminum of the Boss, but frankly, with the pressures involved, cast aluminum is fully adequate to the task. Cowboy is well know for quality machines, so no worry there.  Base price is $1500, another $105 for the material guide. No mention about shipping on their website, so I expect that with shipping, I'm edging closer to the price of the Weaver Cub.

The Weaver Cub uses a flywheel crank for operation, rather than a pull crank. From what I have read, while not quite as easy to locate that first stitch as the other two machines, the smooth operation of the flywheel does, in fact, make the stitches a little more even and fair. Not a big deal on saddle skirts, but on bridles and belts, might make a difference. Operation can also be a little faster, which will make a difference on saddle skirts. The Cub basic price is $2000, but that includes the material guide and shipping is free. Weaver is known for excellent customer service and I have read, seen, nothing but good reviews on them.

Seems all three use the same kind of needles and their thread size and material thickness on all three are adequate to my needs, although the Cub advertises it will handle 3/4", while the Outlaw will handle 5/8" and the Boss 7/16".

I would really like to hear from folks who have used these three machines extensively and have a good feel for them.

Thanks.

[kgg]

1 hour ago, thenrie said:

I would really like to hear from folks who have used these three machines extensively and have a good feel for them.

I think finding someone with extensive experience on all three machines maybe difficult. Most people I think choose one machine over another for various reasons and either stick with that machine or move onto a motorized Class 441 machine. I almost bought the Cowboy Outlaw but in the end decided to go with a Juki TSC-441 clone.

Another option would be a used one arm bandit to see if that style of machine would suit your needs. There is a used one listed by one of the forum members that maybe worth checking out. ( https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/117513-good-used-tippmann-boss-leather-sewing-machine/ )

kgg

 

[Sinbad395]

Don't know if it will make a difference to you...but when you buy the Cowboy Outlaw it comes with all the accessories, including an edge guide and RH & LH footed half shoes for close in edges and a couple of extra bobbins, which are fairly large.  While it may not be as fast as the flywheel driven Weaver Cub, I find mine to be easy to set up,decent instruction guide, and very consistent with minimal practice. As far as back or reverse stitching, I have found it more consistent to leave the threads long at the ends of the run and hand sew the backstitches. Don't know how well that would work on saddles, but there are ways to go about that using the machine.

[bruce johnson]

My thoughts on the Boss only. Haven’t used the others. Mine was the original cast iron frame but I’ve helped a few people set up and get going with aluminums. Forget the  specs, mine sewed whatever I could cram under the foot. I taught two wives and a then 15 year old son to sew on it. Biggest issue with people saying skipped stitches is not making a full stroke on the handle. 
     Edge guide? I never had or used one with it. Sight the axis on the needle down the stitch groove like a gunsight and your line is straight. 
     Reverse stitch would be nice but you can lift the needle slightly out of the leather, slide the work back, and drop as many back stitches one at a time as you like.  Bobbins are the standard large bobbins and fine.

I did a bunch of repairs on mine and couple considerations. Over time on skirts the edges may curl along with the plugs. That makes the holes curved and not true vertical. That needle deflection can be enough to miss the hook. You will get to where you can feel the stitch miss on the slight upstroke-  just drop it again until you feel it catch. New sharp needles help that too, one size up is better also Tip there is take your time sewing or put in new plugs. I had a pile of bronc saddles one week during rodeo here and my powered machines wouldn’t  resew them but the Boss would.

$1000?? Twenty plus years ago they were $1600 with the basic package. Powered stitchers were $5000 or more. My Boss paid for itself about a hundred fold. Ease of control, easy learning curve, and good support. Only reason I sold it was I had 3 other powered machines and wasn’t doing repairs anymore. 

[LeatherLegion]

I used both the Outlaw and  the Boss...The Outlaw has a longer arm if you need the space .They are both great machines, easy to carry around , especially if you do shows. Great customer service from both companies 

[Dwight]

My Boss is over 24 years old . . . and it has been back to Ft Wayne a couple times . . . nothing serious either time . . .

From some rough handling . . . I did have to replace one of the gears in the back . . .

It has sewn virtually everything I asked it to in those years . . . some nylon stuff . . . vinyl . . . and of course, leather.

I've seen both of the others . . . and they don't impress me . . . 

If you get a boss and their narrow foot . . . you should be happy.  A guide is for people who cannot follow a line . . . have one for my cowboy . .. it's gathering dust . . . (it was free).

Backstitching is best done like Bruce said . . . 

May God bless,

Dwight

[thenrie]

19 hours ago, kgg said:

I think finding someone with extensive experience on all three machines maybe difficult. Most people I think choose one machine over another for various reasons and either stick with that machine or move onto a motorized Class 441 machine. I almost bought the Cowboy Outlaw but in the end decided to go with a Juki TSC-441 clone.

Another option would be a used one arm bandit to see if that style of machine would suit your needs. There is a used one listed by one of the forum members that maybe worth checking out. ( https://leatherworker.net/forum/topic/117513-good-used-tippmann-boss-leather-sewing-machine/ )

kgg

 

I am hoping for input from anyone who has extensive experience on any of the three machines. Sorry if that was unclear.

Thanks for the responses. Sounds like, for my use case, the Boss has moved into the lead. I have always liked the machine, but have only had opportunity to fiddle with it at a Tandy shop awhile back. I think I'll give them a call next week.

Interestingly, I just saw from one website that Cowboy machines have their parts manufactured in the US, but they are assembled in China.

@sinbad39, the price I showed for the Cowboy Outlaw at was from the Tandy website and the accessories are listed and priced separately. There are other places to purchase from at varying prices, so I guess the accessories may come with it from different sites. I went with Tandy, as I have a store located not far from me and can see the machine hands-on and get a discount with my business account, although the 10% sales tax negates that.

Edited June 22 by thenrie
additional comment

[Wizcrafts]

42 minutes ago, thenrie said:

the price I showed for the Cowboy Outlaw at was from the Tandy website and the accessories are listed and priced separately. There are other places to purchase from at varying prices, so I guess the accessories may come with it from different sites.

@thenrie

Why don't you contact @CowboyBob and see what he sells a complete Cowboy Outlaw setup for?

[Charley1]

Looking at the Cowboy, it sure seems a close almost copy of the Boss. I've had a Boss for about 6 years, never had any major issues with it. Of course, there is a learning curve with it, but there is a learning curve on every other piece of equipment a well. I do agree about buying the narrow foot, and skipping the edge guide.

[thenrie]

Thanks for all the input folks. I decided to go with a Tipmann Boss. I feel like it will handle anything I will need it to and it has the smallest footprint for my cramped shop. After watching a bunch of videos and reading a bunch of threads on it, I have come to the conclusion that most of the folks who have trouble with it don't have a full grasp of how it functions, the wear items, and correct adjustment and lubrication procedures for the unit. I'm sure that's not always the case, but by and large the folks who are happy with it seem to have a long-term relationship with it. At the current price points and my use case, the Boss will pay for itself much quicker than either of the other two.

The current price, new from Tipmann with the full accessory pack comes to $1251 with free shipping and no sales tax.

[WendlingKnives]

Ill agree with the others. Ive had my boss for maybe 10 years and have sewn a ton with it. It will do up to 3/4 easily and backstitching is quick and easy like others said just lifting the presser foot.