Steel plate table top?

[DonInReno]

Has anyone else liked the solid feel of a nice welding table and used a fairly thick (1/2"ish) steel plate for a sewing table top?   1/2" x 18"x 42" piece is less than $100 so it's not a huge investment other than time to fit and finish it.

This is for a heavier than normal welded stand with casters that's on a concrete floor so weight isn't a problem.

It seems kind of cool to have a top with the same familiar edge curve, thickness and hammered paint surface finish as the machine.

The attached pic isn't my table - it's just one that got me thinking :-)

 

 

 

 

[CowboyBob]

It should work great,just don't plan on moving anytime soon.LOL

[dikman]

No reason it wouldn't work, although it seems like overkill to me (why not paint wood to get the hammered finish?). If you were fitting a cylinder arm machine then it would minimise the cutting needed, but I wouldn't fancy making the cutout for a flat bed - unless you've got access to a CNC laser cutter! Even with the right tools steel still requires more work and effort to finish (which you probably already know).

[brmax]

Thats a real nice work station there. Although I dont understand the feet, maybe temporary. 

Its possible you could find several color and texture patterns in the plastics now days for countertops. They still need to be thick like 1.5” minimum, that still is ? In my oppinion  

Im sittin doing some coffee here in the warm ( I think 72 )next to my bandsaw, its on an outside wall. I just touched it and cannot imagine having to use gloves to keep my hands warm as would be required at a sew table. Imho

So I had to get the temp gun, suprising sew machines and table surfaces are 70-71 but it sure seems the cast and steel is colder. 

But I will say, it only matters what you want. As your going to be working around it. Besides we have used both steel and wood working together for a long time. I myself was serious about steel frames though the need for lots of table surface so some good mdo plywood was the ticket here. 

Good day

Floyd

[Uwe]

It would look very cool and, unfortunately, it would also be uncomfortably cool. Resting your arms on that steel top as you sew may get uncomfortable quickly because the metal will quickly suck the heat out of your forearms, making them feel cold. Just like a tile floor feels colder under bare feet than a wood floor because stone is more thermally conductive and quickly cools off your skin from near 100˚F body temp to 70˚F room temp. This will not be an issue if you're sewing in a place where the ambient temperature is close to 100˚F.

 

[DonInReno]

Yes, the coolness to the touch appears to be the major drawback during the cooler months.  (About half the year Reno is on the warm side so feeling a little cool would be a plus!)  

Perhaps warming the steel top with an electric heater of some kind would make it more comfortable than wood in the cooler months?  I looked at a thin automotive battery warmer that would tuck away from sight quite nicely - still a requires remembering to turn it on a while before use - not ideal.

With 1/2" steel being about 20 lbs/sqft the top will be around 90 lbs, which seems manageable for the 20 yr old boys I'll talk into helping! Lol

 

[OLDNSLOW]

Like the others have said that is a lot of over kill for a sewing table, I have only passed through Reno, well over night stays years ago and Winter can be brutal and summer is the desert heat.  The table is going to swing both ways with the ambient heat, stay with wood, a nice oak plywood stained looks real nice.

[DonInReno]

A quick update - walking through a garage sale of sorts there was a large cast iron industrial machine table with nice legs so I grabbed it and plopped a 111w155 on it.

Metal tops are simply cold and clammy feeling for a flatbed machine even if the room temp is in the low 70's!  5 minutes sewing on it made it obvious that a heater for the top would have to be used every time - that's a deal killer.  

Oh well, I have a nice metal table for a bench drill press. Lol

[chrisash]

Don't place it over the top of the basement

half inch steel is quite heavy

[SheltathaLore]

Clearly, you should give the table top a snazzy powder coat job.  Don't your machines deserve some bling?

[gottaknow]

We use 1/8” steel tables on our Brother 342G’s. They are stand up automatic work stations. The operators do rest their arms on them at least part of the time. No complaints so far. 

As a side note, my welding bench at work is a section of a restaurant grill. Best welding bench ever. 

Regards, Eric 

[dikman]

Does that mean you can grill lunch while you're welding?

[DonInReno]

In a production situation the cool feel of the table is probably a plus! ...I'm just relaxing messing around with small projects.

The restaurant grill is a great idea!

[DonInReno]

I’m about to try a compact all metal top made from a heavy 12” C-channel.  This picture isn’t the actual material - my channel is buried in the garage and is at least 1/2” thick at the thinnest spot.   

I like my table and use it for flatbed upholstery machines, but mounting a 441 class machine poses a number of challenges.  For flatwork it’s nice to have the machine close to where the upholstery models normally sit and for more clearance it would be nice to mount it on the table edge.   On this channel top the speed reducer, light stand, and thread stand will get mounted to the rear edge on a track.  

The crossed out areas show how much smaller the new top will be.  :-)

edit:  when the 3200 is bolted down a filler plate will fill the flatbed cutout.

Edited December 21, 2018 by DonInReno

[DonInReno]

A little closer - I roughly cut it to size and ground off most of the defects - it still needs to be sanded, corners rounded and mounts welded on.  This particular channel is 30lbs per foot so it should be about 90 lbs - maybe 85 once the cutout for flatbed machines is made.

[ensitmike]

1 hour ago, DonInReno said:

A little closer - I roughly cut it to size and ground off most of the defects - it still needs to be sanded, corners rounded and mounts welded on.  This particular channel is 30lbs per foot so it should be about 90 lbs - maybe 85 once the cutout for flatbed machines is made.

100% badassery. Very cool, Don. 

[DonInReno]

Well the motor is coupled to the reducer - now it needs a new mount.   Something with an easily adjustable belt tension that can be set without tools - the design hasn’t jumped out yet, but it will probably have a simple 2” hand wheel.

I’ve come to like the simplicity of hidden thread spools in some of the big stitchers so I’m making a spool holder that hangs just below table top with a simple tube rising up a foot or so off the bed that supplies thread to the machine.  Maybe the best looking thread stand is no stand at all! Lol  

Somewhat along the same line of thinking it dawn in me that if the thread is already under the table top why not add a somewhat hidden tensioner on one side of the table front running to a simple rotating metal post just barely sticking out of the other side of the table front.  There’s plenty of room to hide a motor for the winder and I’d forgo an automatic stop for the simplicity of holding a small button down for a few seconds - the bobbin is winding a foot from my face so it’s easy enough to manually stop when the bobbin’s full.

The wood top is completely gone and the 1/2” thick top has been roughly attached to the table frame.  Bolting the machine down was as simple as drilling four holes, tapping 3/8” threads and screwing it down.  The top is so solid it really has a nice feel and will serve double duty for leather tooling.  At first the plan was to paint it, but I ran across a door kick plate that had a nicely blued finished much like a firearm and that might be cool - the way a blued finish rubs off with use has always looked classic.  I’ll have to weld closed a couple of holes and spend an entire weekend lapping the top and corners flat and polished.  I picked up a 7” diamond cup wheel for the grinder and after an hour was able to flatten out more than half of the unevenness, but there must be another .020” that needs to be lapped out one way or another.  It’s such a big flat surface that if I can get it super flat it should look and feel really nice.  The downside to using C channel is all the weird internal stresses and there’s no telling what kind of distortion will happen when the big cutout for the flatbed machines is made.  

Maybe the flatbed machines should get an entirely separate top?  At about 100 lbs it’s a challenge to get this top on and line up th four bolts.  There are a lot of trade offs trying to fit so many different machines in one base! 

At Summit Racing I fell for the slightly larger look of their hexagon shaped threaded tubes and a different shaped and slightly larger 3/4” rod ends that were in sale. The 20,000 lb rating on the rod ends definitely isn’t needed, but it passed the cooler than what I have now test! *chuckle*  

One thing is for sure, the majority of space behind the machine on most sewing tables is 80% wasted and basically has been a part of traditional designs as mounting for the motor, thread stand and light and not much else.  I do miss having a little more space in front of the machine for scissors and whatnot so I’m saving a 4” strip off another piece of channel as an extension - maybe removable, maybe welded solid. 

I ran across some 8”x3” vintage iron wheels off an industrial cart that just look cool - much cooler than the current 5” rubber casters...and then saw some hexagon solid axles that would compliment the iron wheels....how’s that for the goofiest use of time on a sewing table! Lol. 

Some designs make sense, on this I’m just adding bits that simply seem cool, however impractical they may be, and so far it’s been a lot more fun than it should be!  :-)

[Metalhorseman]

Don ! I just found this ... awesome table idea! I need to make one  For my cylinder arm I'm tinkering with .What is the right angle motor I'm seeing ? Need more Info on that ! That is Sweet . Wayne

[DonInReno]

On 3/13/2023 at 9:40 PM, Metalhorseman said:

Don ! I just found this ... awesome table idea! I need to make one  For my cylinder arm I'm tinkering with .What is the right angle motor I'm seeing ? Need more Info on that ! That is Sweet . Wayne

It really has been a good little table!  Nice and heavy so it feels very stable even with the arm hanging out off the far end.

The motor is a simple Consew 1000 with an Alpha right angle gear reducer.   These are great reducers and are such high quality they are one of the nicest pieces of equipment I own.   New they sell for well over $500, but on eBay the price of a nearly new one can be as low as $75.  The straight version often pops up for $50.  There are many less expensive brands, but the Alpha W is as good as it gets.
 

The photo below  is a similar model, but I wanted to show what to look for.   The first part of the model number is the size - these things come in all different sizes, but a 060 or 075 size is about right.   The other number you need is the ratio - these things come in a dozen different ratios and many seem to share the same case - the one in the picture below is a 5:1 ratio and that part of the model number is easy to pick out.   The other numbers sort of matter I suppose, but these have so many options within a model that it’s more important to look closely at the output shaft, input setup and aluminum baseplate.    Mine is a 3:1 and is just right with the big handwheel on the 441 clone.   For smaller machines the 5:1 would be ideal - with a slightly larger pulley it would be just like a 3:1 and with a small pulley the 5:1 is about as slow as you’d want to go.    I also have a 7:1 and it’s a bit too slow and the reduction doesn’t allow the handwheel to be moved very easily by hand.

The output shaft comes in a wire range of sizes from huge to pretty small - if your heart was set on a small output pulley this will take more searching - often the seller has no idea what diameter it is.   Going with 5:1 eliminates the need for the absolute smallest pulley.

I have seen some input designs that can’t be used with a servo motor - like splined shafts or weird flex couplings.  The ones that seem the easiest have a very nicely machined clamping collar that accepts a size reducing bushing - just get the correct bushing to fit your motor shaft and you’re good to go!

Attaching the motor to the reducer will require drilling holes in the front plate of the motor and might require an adapter plate of some kind, but on mine no adapter plate was needed.

Hopefully that gives you an idea of what to look out for.  :-)

[Metalhorseman]

Hi Don , would that motor be good on my cylinder arm ? if I can ever get it working , keep taking it apart and adjusting this and that. Im learning .

[DonInReno]

Personally, for $20 more the slightly larger csm3000 700watt would be a better motor.   Both of these aren’t known for very good low speed operation, so a speed reducer is a must have to get good control.   You’ll see these motors sold under half a dozen different names.   Essentially the same motor design is used a lot for a number of different sizes sold by various people up to 1500watts.    I have a 1200watt model that has very good torque down low and is my favorite, but it was twice the price for twice as many watts.

The family fesm550 servo is generally accepted as a better low speed servo, and bang for the buck is quite good, but it’s not nearly as compact and to me looks funny when used above a table.  It’s also sold under half a dozen different names and is a very good choice for most sewing machines and most people.

 

[Metalhorseman]

I do have a family fesm550 on my Seiko with a 2.5 inch pulley ,set at 600rpm , very controllable .The cylinder arm singer is much two fast 3200 clutch motor .So your right angle gear reducer came with a shaft for drive belt pulley ?And u said other side bolted right up to your motor huh. Haven't seen one yet like that. Went on Wittenstein website to get familiar . Can I get a few more different pic  angles of your motor set up? Really need to build some space saver table. Another Gentleman on Craigslist just gifted me a working Singer 133k18 darner machine with table and 3hp motor . It's crazy powerful ! Got 5 machines in the Hoard.LOL Garage is packed . 2 machines in living room !

[DonInReno]

58 minutes ago, Metalhorseman said:

So your right angle gear reducer came with a shaft for drive belt pulley ?And u said other side bolted right up to your motor huh. Haven't seen one yet like that. 

The output shaft of these reducers vary in size a lot - some are metric and some are inch size - you just have to order a pulley to match the shaft.   There is some drilling and head scratching with these - definitely not a simple bolt on, but not overly so.

You have to keep looking at eBay every week or so until one comes up for a decent price.   I’ve had the best luck searching “Wittenstein reducer”, looking at a few of the lowest priced used models, and then scrolling to the bottom of each page where similar items are shown. Then I’ll repeat that and search just for “alpha reducer” Almost every one I’ve picked up didn’t show up in the main searches - eBay has turned into pay-for-play just like Amazon.

 There are more details in this old post:

 

[Metalhorseman]

Holy Moly ,nice work on the Bar !! I got too many projects !! LOL

[DonInReno]

22 hours ago, Metalhorseman said:

Holy Moly ,nice work on the Bar !! I got too many projects !! LOL

Thanks!  It was fun.

I came across a home made 3:1 reducer used to drive an electric hydrofoil board thing.   It uses the nose of a small grinder - apparently the rotor shaft going into the nose is supported by a pretty good bearing so guys cut the shaft leaving an inch or so to attach a coupler to, and fabricate a spacer to fill the gap between motor and grinder casting.  A 10mm to 15mm rigid shaft coupler is $20, so it seems all a guy would have to do is come up with a 2”ish spacer for sewing machine use.  I may try this just for something different.  Lol