Sewing Machine conundrum

[Russ498]

I have a bit of a dilemma. I am fairly new to leatherwork. I am in my 60s and still work part-time as a government contractor.  At this point, I am just a hobbyist but may want to try to sell some goods in the future. I am most interested in making knife sheets and holsters  and some motorcycle accessories.   I jump into everything with both feet. I've already spent several thousand dollars on a variety of tools and other necessities.  I am from a law enforcement background so I have a lot of connections in that field and in the motorcycle field, so that is where my customer base would be.

 I have been hand stitching up to this point and I have to say the results are actually pretty good.   I would like to speed things up a bit with the sewing machine. I have been longing for a Tipmann Boss. I have read every review that I can find but there doesn't seem to be a real consensus. I have also been looking at the Cowboy and Cobra electric machines. The Boss is expensive but affordable.   The electric machines are crazy expensive for a hobbyist.

 

 The mistake I don't want to make is buying the Boss and being dissatisfied with it a year later and buying the electric machine.

 

 Has anyone used the Boss long-term?   Have you wished that you had just taken a big bite out of the bullet and bought the electric machine?

[Uwe]

29 minutes ago, Russ498 said:

already spent several thousand dollars on a variety of tools and other necessities.

Then a proper motorized sewing machine should appear to be a bargain, not "crazy expensive."

[Mark842]

49 minutes ago, Russ498 said:

Has anyone used the Boss long-term?  

Yes, I did years ago and muttered and invented new cuss words every time I used the thing. If I wouldn't have wasted $800 on the Boss I could have bought my Cobra that much sooner. I recommend getting a Cobra or Cowboy or other 441 clone. Just keep in mind that the Cobra and Cowboy machines are set up for leather, other clones may not be so you may have to but different presser feet and a feed dog.

[Matt S]

Tandy sells the Boss for $1300-1500 depending on which level of membership you have (dunno about other vendors). GA5/CB2500 (Singer 45K/Adler 5 clone) is $1000-1300 depending on if you want reverse or not. CB3200 (Adler 205 clone) is about $1700. Both these motorised machines will do a little under half an inch of leather with heavy threads, for about the same price as a Boss.

[Hildebrand]

As a current Boss users I definitely would not recommend spending what it would cost to get a new one, look for an older cast iron model.  I bought mine well used for $700 bucks and after 2+ years of tinkering and reading I finally have it dialed in and sewing decent on a consistent basis.  If I  had known I could get a Cowboy 4500 with all the trimmings for less than $3000 I would have waited.  I am getting by with the Boss at the hobby level but if I decide to take it up any further production wise I will be investing in a Cowboy 4500.  If you definitely want to save the money then I would look at the new Cowboy hand machine, it has a deeper throat than the Boss and that really is a pain on some things getting them bent up so it will clear.

[Gunnarsson]

I'm also just a hobbyist with very limited experience, I'm keeping my eyes open for a usable sewing machine but so far I'm really mostly doing research and trying to learn what to look for.
In my eyes, the Boss is an interesting machine, but priced way higher than it is worth to me. On the positive side it has impressive capacity, on the negative side it seems like alot of people have problems with them (especially the later aluminum ones) and being hand cranked it will be slow and noisy - probably fast enough for the hobbyist doing an item now and then, but much too slow and labour intensive for actual production work. If I come across one very cheap I'd probably buy it just to try it out, but I'd probably sell it on once I'm done playing with it and use the money for something with a motor. 

[supercub]

I bought a Boss when they first came out.  It took awhile to get it (and me) adjusted to it's quirks.  Once I did, it worked fine.  I eventually upgraded to a (then) new Ferdco Pro 2000.  It too is a great machine, but wayyy more $$.  As I recall the Boss was then around $800 and the Pro 2000 was over $5k. 

I still keep the Boss around for small jobs and specialty products.  About 85% of the stuff I make is sewn on the Pro 2000.  Nowadays the Cowboy and other Juki 441 clones are a lot more reasonable in price than the Ferdco.  If I had to do it again with current machine availability, I'd probably just bite the bullet and get a good electric needle feed  machine with a wide throat and reverse.

The Boss can be a good machine, but it will never be practical as a production tool.  It is a whole lot faster than hand stitching though.

[Uwe]

3 hours ago, Matt S said:

CB3200 (Adler 205 clone)

Just for the record and to keep rumors from spreading, the CB3200 is NOT a clone of the Adler 205. The CB-3200 is a well-loved mutt that incorporates some elements of the Juki TSC-441 design along with other design elements of undetermined lineage. No Adler 205 plans were harmed in the making of the CB3200. The barrel hook may be interchangeable, but that's about it.

[chuckgaudette]

Uwe, do you make a flatbed table conversion for this machine?

[Ed in Tx]

I went through the same decision process about 5 years ago. Thankfully I bit the bullet and bought a Cobra 4P machine. I had never used a sewing machine in my life and learning to sew on the Cobra 4 was easy.

Don't spend the $1200 - $1400 for a manual machine and end up regretting it, spend a bit more and know that you have a sewing machine that will work well and hold it's value.

Just my 2 cents..

[Matt S]

3 hours ago, Uwe said:

Just for the record and to keep rumors from spreading, the CB3200 is NOT a clone of the Adler 205. The CB-3200 is a well-loved mutt that incorporates some elements of the Juki TSC-441 design along with other design elements of undetermined lineage. No Adler 205 plans were harmed in the making of the CB3200. The barrel hook may be interchangeable, but that's about it.

Hi Uwe, thanks for the correction!

[dikman]

If you know you are going to have a market for whatever you make then just get a suitable electric machine from the start. It will be the most cost-effective solution in the long run and will likely save you some grief down the track . The most important thing, however, is to figure out exactly what you're likely to be making, as this will determine the size (and cost) of a suitable machine. If you're going to make western-style holsters you will need a heavy-duty machine.

[garypl]

I agree with going for an electric machine, but if you want a Boss, there is one for sale on Craigslist - here is the link: https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/tls/d/leather-sewing-machine/6651491765.html  Asking $750 - located on the SC / GA border in Elberton

Gary

[SolarLeatherMachines]

11 hours ago, Uwe said:

Then a proper motorized sewing machine should appear to be a bargain, not "crazy expensive."

Exactly.  Not to mention that an modern industrial machine will hold its value quite well.  

[CowboyBob]

I'll never forget the look on a longtime Boss users face after he  sewed his knife sheath on the CB4500.The ones he had a problem with is almost 5/8" thick @ the top down to 5/16" at the tip.The sample he sewed on his Boss looked good until he came up from the tip,since it was thicker towards the top the stitch length shortened by almost 1/2.When he sewed on the CB4500 & looked at it he said I'll take it,traded the Boss in & haven't heard from him since. I'm not trying to knock the Boss but just wanted to let people know it helps to have a walking foot & feed dog for even stitches on a taper or going over seams.

[DrmCa]

Same sentiment here. I regret not spending more or not buying machines, when I had a chance, but never regret buying one.

It is almost always possible to use more of a machine for less of a project, than the other way around.

Shop around for a good used motorized machine, and you'll find a deal.

[Yetibelle]

I think after any one hand-sews leather, while sometimes relaxing and meditative, it can also be frustrating and slow.  This also applies to learning to sew leather with a machine, hand crank, treadle or motor; it will take you some time to get the hang of it.  So if you pick the hand crank Boss machine, you will be learning to sew with one hand cranking the other holding the project.  If you get a treadle you will learn how to move your hand back and forth from the hand-wheel to the project and get a foot-rhythm.  Now if you get a the Cowboy CB4500, both hands are holding your project, the needle can move at brisk pace or a single stitch at a time due to the servo motor and speed reducer pulley.   I believe the slower speeds, using both hands and the edge guide reduce the learning curve significantly.

I would also add that unlike a 2K computer that is good for maybe 5 years, the industrial sewing machine may be immortal, since some of my machines are well over 100 years old and in perfect working condition.