Can you run a cowboy 3200 on an old singer treadle?

[kyleboedeker]

Hey guys,

 

I'm just curious if anyone has tried to run a cowboy or similar machine via a treadle? I just ordered a hand cranked CB3200, but it occurred to me that I have access to an old singer treadle that's in good shape. I'm wondering if it would be possible to combine the two. 

[SolarLeatherMachines]

It's possible, but not very effective.  Treadles were best when run at speed, using the fly wheel to punch through light leathers, on a machine that had very loose tolerances that spun freely.   There's precious little torque in a treadle, and most of what you would generate would be eaten up by the frictions in the head.  

 

[kgg]

You can set it up using a treadle but like Solarleathermachines said you are going to loss torque and it is going to be a frustrating to say the least. The main reservation I would have is whether or not the treadle frame will take the weight and any side to side movement of the machine. Treadled machines are great for what they were intended for, sewing lighter weight items when and where electricity isn't readily available.

kgg

[cdthayer]

2 hours ago, kyleboedeker said:

a hand cranked CB3200, but it occurred to me that I have access to an old singer treadle that's in good shape. I'm wondering if it would be possible to combine the two. 

Yes.  Combine the two.  With leather sewing, you'll probably use the hand crank on most things anyway, but if you get into a long run on something, the treadle will already be going along with the hand crank motion, and your feet can help keep the machine going without wearing your arm out.

I treadle a Singer 20U zigzag machine.  It's got lots of drag with the zigzag linkage, and I do a lot of hand cranking to get going, make short runs, and make turns, but when I have a long run, the treadle comes in very handy.

With that said, I hand crank an Adler 205-64 and an Adler 205-370, but have not ever tried treadling either of them on an Industrial Singer 16" flywheel treadle.

CD in Oklahoma

[kyleboedeker]

5 hours ago, SolarLeatherMachines said:

It's possible, but not very effective.  Treadles were best when run at speed, using the fly wheel to punch through light leathers, on a machine that had very loose tolerances that spun freely.   There's precious little torque in a treadle, and most of what you would generate would be eaten up by the frictions in the head.  

 

Alrighty. Hand crank it is. Can't wait for my machine to come in from you guys!

[Ken Nelson]

At one time the Singer 45K was available on a treadle stand.   If you could find one, I am sure it would be heavy enough for your machine.  You could probably build one similar from the pics if you have a shop available.

[Constabulary]

I never understood why someone would like to hand crank a heavy duty machine when electricity is available or health reasons make it impossible or you don´t live out in the boonies. Space is no "proper" reason in my opinion. You can make space saving solutions even with servo motors and speed reducer. Sewing proper straight lines must be a pain with must 1 hand on the material. Or what am I missing?

This was my solution but you for sure can build narrower stands with smaller pedals (scroll down to the end)

 

EDIT:

I tried the heavy treadles (as for the 45K´s) a few times - did not like it at all. The control and torque at slow speed is not nearly as good as with servo + speed reducer. These treadles may be nice for display of historical reasons but not relay comfortable in a daily use (from a nowadays view).

Edited July 4, 2019 by Constabulary

[Matt S]

4 hours ago, Ken Nelson said:

At one time the Singer 45K was available on a treadle stand.   If you could find one, I am sure it would be heavy enough for your machine.  You could probably build one similar from the pics if you have a shop available.

I have one of those 45ks on a proper industrial treadle stand (not a poor overloaded domestic or 29k stand). It works fine because it has a massive flywheel. I also have a BUSM6 with the stairmaster treadle stand. Also a massive flywheel. Plenty of torque at low speed. I think the table flywheel really is key to to a workable treadle... If you really want to treadle. I like servo motors. Far simpler manual of arms, more concentration on the work, faster acceleration, faster braking, less chance of wobbling a stitch line, needle positioning available.

[kgg]

6 hours ago, Constabulary said:

I never understood why someone would like to hand crank a heavy duty machine

I figure it must be a Zen thing. Since I'm wound a bit too tight at the best of times I would utterly not be coordinated enough to enjoy the full on hand cranking experience. I can see that I would have to sound proof the sewing room from the steady stream of curse words being versed together in a manner longer then the bobbin thread.

kgg

[chrisash]

I would have thought the motor and control system from a old mobility scooters, would be a good way to modify a sewing machine to electric with maybe a solar power pack to recharge the battery, just a idea as it has speed control, good range and plenty of old ones around to dismantle

[cdthayer]

I won’t argue with you guys that like motors, but I need to respond.  I realize that there’s a lot of money to be made helping to sell the latest motors.  The OP didn’t say what kind of sewing he would be doing with his handcrank 3200, but since it’s a handcrank, it sounds to me like he’s not going to be doing a bunch of production with it.  One-offs, occasional-use projects, and repair work can work really well with manually-powered machines, even the so-called “heavy duty machines”.  Just look at the Tippmann, the new Cowboy Outlaw, and the Hand Crank Outlaw 3200. It appears that hand-operated large-capacity sewing machines are gaining in popularity, or why would we be seeing new ones coming onto the market?

Hand cranking a large machine is not for the squeamish, and if you don’t think it will work well for you, then you probably ought to pass on one, because you probably won’t have much luck with it.  Mounting a handcrank machine into a treadle can just enhance the functionally of the machine.

There have been a great number of stitches (even the “heavy duty” kind) sewn using manual machines in the past. I see no reason to not continue doing the same.  I can use my manually-operated machines anywhere that I can move them to, and I don’t have to pay someone else each time that I use it ($ to the power company, or $ to the guy that sells me fuel for a generator).

Less (someone mentioned Zen?) can actually be really better even in this day and age.....

CD in Oklahoma

 

Edited July 5, 2019 by cdthayer