Just curious about western holsters in the old days

[chrisash]

Just wondered how much change there was between the 1800's western holsters for the Mr Average and the holsters of the film industry

For instance there is a big difference between the latter John Wayne holsters and the average cowboy holsters seen in the films and probably safe to assume the 1800's were far cheaper and more basic designs

Also never understood that for the slightly longer time to draw a pistol for the average guy, they did not copy the covered in cavalry holsters that protected the gun far better , and if ok for calvary who probably saw more action, then why not mr average

It would appear that gunfights portrayed in films were a very rare occurrence, with few noted in history so micro second speed would really be called upon

[MikeRock]

Chris,  $45 or maybe an interlibrary loan will get you this.  Great book.  I asked about a movie holster and folks here led me to this book, among others.  It has the information you need.

 

Packing Iron: Gunleather of the Frontier West

 

by

Richard C. Rattenbury

Western gunleather is an icon of American frontier lore. Packing Iron celebrates the artistry and innovation of the craftsmen who designed the gun rigs of the old time cowboys, troopers, lawmen, and Hollywood heroes. This unique art form is fully described and richly illuatrated with more than 300 exciting color photographs and nearly 100 rare historic images. In the pages of Packing Iron you will discover gunleather produced by historic government arsenals, along with the famed frontier craftsmen like Collins, Meanea, Gallatin, and Heiser.

[Matt S]

Chris, you are quite right that the holsters you seen in typical mid-20th century Westerns were quite different from what was seen in the Western states from say 1850-1900. Partly it's a matter of what looks cool in a film, and partly the change in what people were doing with holsters in the 1950s (advent of steel-lined, low-slung holsters for quick-draw competitions, for instance). There were a lot more revolvers carried cross-draw back in the day than you'll see in 1950s westerns too -- if you want to know why, try drawing a pistol from a seated position!

Will Ghormley is an excellent maker of period correct Western gear and has for many years created the actual rigs you see in the more modern, realistic (in terms of kit) films. His website, while appearing to date from not long after 1900, gives a lot of interesting detail. For instance I understand that the earlier revolver holsters (commonly called "slim jims" since they're pretty skinny looking) were felt lined. This was to protect the earlier, more delicate revolvers like the Colt Navy on the long early cattle drives (which got shorter and shorter as the railroad heads got closer to Texas).

[chuck123wapati]

What isn't mentioned a lot and something I find interesting was that the civil war soldiers carried their pistol in a crossdraw covered holster made for left handed use, so they could use their sword in the right hand while the pistol was used in the left hand. The sabre was carried on he left and the pistol on the right.  I think there were probably as many self made holsters or stuck in pants as there were bought holsters back in the day due mainly because of cost, the Mr. average guy back then didn't have a lot of extra money but they did have time and i'm sure many pistols for the average came from their life in the war as a battlefield pickup same with the holsters I imagine a lot were war relics with the flaps cut off and doctored up the way the owner felt. From what I have read most folks if they were average bought a shotgun as their first affordable weapon as it had much more use for the family. We all see the good holsters suitable for books and handing down but I think we rarely see actual working rigs that wore out or were so poorly made they were tossed away when newer could be bought.  Old junky holsters and self made holsters don't sell books or movies except for lil Mattie who kept her hog leg in a flour sack lol.

[fredk]

A couple of books to look out for are the reprints of Sears Roebuck catalogues of the late 19th C. They have sections dealing with firearms, hardware, holsters, ammunition, holsters etc all with prices.

The above book is worth its price, but not readily available in the UK. I bought mine off someone on here and it ended up costing me about £120 - customs and VAT got their share!

 

[chrisash]

Afraid the interest does not reach to spending money. just watch this forum and see all the western rigs and wonder about the actual history, I think chuck's reply is the most likely with people buying shotguns and rifles as the most popular and useful tools, with a pistol coming well down the list of needs, The pistol would seem most likely high for the actual cowboy herding beef but of little use for the homesteader/ farmers

[dikman]

Holsters in the Old West were intended primarily as a means to carry a revolver and give it some protection from the elements. That is why you'll see the revolvers "buried" in the holster, often with not much more than the handle protruding. Towards the end of the 19th. century they seemed to change slightly, becoming a bit more open. The "Hollywood fast draw gunfights" didn't seem to happen much in real life back then.

[fredk]

1. a lot of men going west after 1865 carried their arms from the War between the States, aka the Civil War. These were mostly flintlock rifles and basic revolvers of ball & powder loading. If they had holsters for the pistols during the war they kept them.

2. In the early movies very many of the 'cow boys' were actual working drovers and used their own equipment, bought during the 1890s and later 1880s. The main makers of the leatherwork for the early movies were the same people supplying those drovers in the 1880s - 1890s. They continued to make for the films and embelleshed their work for the 'stars'. There is a direct lineage to the leatherwork.

3. Contrary to the movies, a ball & powder pistol is not accurate. You can hit a barndoor at 30 paces. You need to be only about 10 feet from a man to hit him. A rifle is of more use. On cattle drives drovers carried rifles and the chuck wagon carried the pistols in case of need, as well as extra rifles and ammunition

4. Each region had variations of holster work which could identify where the wearer was from or where he bought it.

5. Wearing pistols with butts forward is not necessarily 'cross-draw' but it could be what was called 'the troopers twist'. J.B. Hickok wore two 1860s butt forward but drew by 'troopers twist' . If you have a pistol handy, try it. Butt forward. Use your hand on the side you wear the pistol. turn your hand palm outwards, grip the pistol, draw and turn it as it passes your belly, to present and fire.  I've timed it and drawing one or two pistols this way is actually faster than 'cross-drawing'

 

[Samalan]

2 hours ago, chrisash said:

Afraid the interest does not reach to spending money. just watch this forum and see all the western rigs and wonder about the actual history, I think chuck's reply is the most likely with people buying shotguns and rifles as the most popular and useful tools, with a pistol coming well down the list of needs, The pistol would seem most likely high for the actual cowboy herding beef but of little use for the homesteader/ farmers

That sounds right we had  a big old china cabinet dad made into a gun cabinet it was around 8' long sat  in the dining room no door locks no gun locks one bay just for ammo one for rifles and one for shotguns as far as firearms go rifles 308,3855,3006,270,338,8mm,22, Shotguns  4- 12ga , 2 -  16ga  tons of ammo ,    Hand guns 1 -mod 29S&W 1-1911 colt and one DWM 30 Luger  the luger was Mom's and just one more no one knew about 50 years ago kids plad army i had no toy guns my brother made me one from a 2X4 with a copper pipe in the end for a barrel it was ok but not good enough  an old lady that lived out behind our house she liked me and the bottle one day she said whats wrong i told her i needed a rifle to play army after some thought she said i can help i'll give you the rifle pat used in the war never used it to play army i put it away for safe keeping knowing if my brothers or parents ever saw it it would be gone anyone who has four brothers knows just what im saying sorry guys went on way to long by the way we had nine kids in that little house Mother cooked the best game food in the world and lots of it!

[chuck123wapati]

15 hours ago, fredk said:

1. a lot of men going west after 1865 carried their arms from the War between the States, aka the Civil War. These were mostly flintlock rifles and basic revolvers of ball & powder loading. If they had holsters for the pistols during the war they kept them.

2. In the early movies very many of the 'cow boys' were actual working drovers and used their own equipment, bought during the 1890s and later 1880s. The main makers of the leatherwork for the early movies were the same people supplying those drovers in the 1880s - 1890s. They continued to make for the films and embelleshed their work for the 'stars'. There is a direct lineage to the leatherwork.

3. Contrary to the movies, a ball & powder pistol is not accurate. You can hit a barndoor at 30 paces. You need to be only about 10 feet from a man to hit him. A rifle is of more use. On cattle drives drovers carried rifles and the chuck wagon carried the pistols in case of need, as well as extra rifles and ammunition

4. Each region had variations of holster work which could identify where the wearer was from or where he bought it.

5. Wearing pistols with butts forward is not necessarily 'cross-draw' but it could be what was called 'the troopers twist'. J.B. Hickok wore two 1860s butt forward but drew by 'troopers twist' . If you have a pistol handy, try it. Butt forward. Use your hand on the side you wear the pistol. turn your hand palm outwards, grip the pistol, draw and turn it as it passes your belly, to present and fire.  I've timed it and drawing one or two pistols this way is actually faster than 'cross-drawing'

 

I agree with everything except number 3. Don't give me a chance at 30 yards they are as accurate as any average modern handgun, you just cant load them as fast lol. In fact the sights were built at 100 yards on the early Colts and had a optional Butt stock. The trooper twist came about due to the fact that the gun was carried on the right backwards to allow use of the sabre with  the right hand which was carried on the left. People like Hickok weren't the average joe and most folks in the wild west didn't wear pistols all that much simply because they didn't want to get shot or shoot themselves by accident there were few doctors and no hospitals. The bad guys or hooligans, youngsters, etc, were just like todays dumbasses and were buried pretty early in life if they didn't respect their personal safety.