Getting good straight cuts and issues with stitching.

[rckt1rcn]

I am relatively new to leather work and so far two of my biggest hang ups have been getting decent looking straight cuts and my laughable attempts at stitching. I have invested in an Al Stohlman half moon knife, some break off type hobby knives, and the roller type. I understand the equipment is only a part of the success and that’s what bothers me because I know its something I am doing wrong. I would greatly appreciate any advice I could get on this subject. My next issue is stitching. I use a groover and forks to get the holes but, once again, they always seem to come out crooked and look like a pre-school project. Once again I would love some advice. Thank you in advance and thank you for creating a community where people like my self can come to learn and be encouraged. 

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Josh

 

 

[Dwight]

Drywall razor knives are just about all I use . . . have for 20 years . . . and an aluminum 48 inch ruler is your straight cutting friend . . . especially LONG straight cuts.

You need to take a 2 inch by 10 inch piece of 7 oz or thicker leather and rub it real good with green polishing compound to make a strop . . . then strop those razor knife blades to keep em sharp.

For stitching and lacing . . . put a mirror up in front of you so you can see the tool as it stands up . . . and watch the mirror as you hit the tool.  You are somehow knocking it sideways if you are starting in the groove . . . but coming out differently on the back.  Buy a couple of belt blanks . . . groove em on both sides . . . practice until the holes on the back side are in the groove just like the ones on the front side.

Or buy a sewing machine (that's what I did).

May God bless,

Dwight

[mike02130]

Best suggestion I can think of first off, is show one item that you've made.  Tell us what you think is wrong, what you would like to improve and the community will go from there.  You will get a much better conversation and learning experience.

I get in my truck and it's hard to start and when I go it makes a noise.  Can you tell me what's wrong?  I would get 20 different answers all starting with maybe.

[DJole]

3 hours ago, rckt1rcn said:

I am relatively new to leather work and so far two of my biggest hang ups have been getting decent looking straight cuts and my laughable attempts at stitching. I have invested in an Al Stohlman half moon knife, some break off type hobby knives, and the roller type. I understand the equipment is only a part of the success and that’s what bothers me because I know its something I am doing wrong. I would greatly appreciate any advice I could get on this subject. My next issue is stitching. I use a groover and forks to get the holes...

I suspect the half moon knife is not your friend yet, since (although I don't have one) I understand that they need to be well sharpened and well stropped to work well, and then there's a learning curve after that. 
A box cutter (i.e. the break-off hobby knife) will do just fine, as long as you match the blade size to the leather thickness, and use a FRESH blade for each project. 
Are you using a metal straight edge when you cut? Are you keeping the knife snug up against the straight edge? Are you holding the knife consistently straight up and down? Those things will greatly affect your cuts.

When stitching, using the pricking irons or diamond tools or whatever you have (you didn't specify clearly), there are some things to consider:
1) Leather thickness -- thick layers don't play well with most of those stitching tools, especially if  you are trying to do two layers at once. You'll have to do each layer on its own, or else take the time to learn to use a stitching awl correctly.

2) Polished chisels (which make holes, rather than pricking irons, which are meant to just mark the leather) -- if the teeth aren't polished, they don't pull out well, and your leather will stretch and bend, thus ruining your straight line.

3) Learning to hold that chisel STRAIGHT up and down when you strike it, EVERY TIME. This is a big one, which takes patience and time to learn. Go slowly!  Turn your leather so  you are looking along the line (as if it points away from you) rather than across the line will help you determine if it is straight up and down before striking.

Developing consistency is a big step here. Many of us rush this, because it seems so simple! But you have to carefully place the tool, the same way each time, along that stitching line. If on one strike the center of the teeth is along that line, and in the next, the tool is slightly misaligned so the teeth are not centered, the line will meander. Add this to the "not perfectly vertical" problem, and you get crooked lines.

4) There are different opinions about using a groover vs. merely using a line made with wing dividers. The main school of thought for making a stitching groove is that the threads wear less, since they are below the surface of the leather. I can't vouch for this being accurate or not, but what I can say is that I haven't used my groover for a few years now, much preferring the wing divider line. But in either case, you must have STRAIGHT EDGES to run the tool along, or else you'll get curvy, wobbly stitching lines.  Again, don't rush -- take the time to sand the edges flat before using the tool on them. This advice certainly helped me!

[Sheilajeanne]

We just had a thread about punching holes for stitching. Let me see if I can find it!

Okay, can't find the exact thread, but it contained a link to this video, which should be a great help to you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCFTDqQaEIc&ab_channel=ArmitageLeather

Nigel has some excellent teaching videos. I strongly recommend subscribing to his YouTube channel.

Edited May 2, 2021 by Sheilajeanne

[Scootch]

Are you trying to cut belts or short straight lines of a pattern.  If the lines are short you should be able to cut them freehand.  Practice on scrap leather cutting 6inch lines or so.

Take your time.  There is no deadline.  If the edge bevels are not even your knife will try to veer off the line.  If your knife isn't perpendicular it will try to veer. If your knife is not sharp as it can be you'll have to pull or push harder causing you to veer.  Take your time and focus.. if the leather is damp or cased it will cut more easily.  Also you dont have to cut completely through on the first pass.  Make sure your substrate isn't soft where your blade digs in.

If your lighting is poor and you're dealing with shadows it will be harder to stay on your mark.

Just some thoughts.

Scootch

[zuludog]

Welcome to the Forum and welcome to the fun! You've had a lot of good advice; I expect mine will be similar, but here it is anyway

I assume you are working on a strong, firm desk or bench and using a self healing cutting mat. You'll need an aluminium or steel ruler, the stronger, thicker, and heavier the better. 12" minimum and longer as the work requires

A round knife is the traditional leather workers knife, but they are tricky to use and need practice. Also traditionally, leatherwork tools like knives and awls are only supplied with a basic cutting edge to keep the cost down, and you are expected to do the final sharpening & polishing yourself. It is only the most expensive tools that you can use straight out of the box, and even those will need to be resharpened sometime.............So I suggest that for the moment you use simpler knives and leave the round knife till you've got used to cutting & handling & working with leather........A head knife is similar to a round knife but has only one point

A snap - blade knife will do the job, though it might struggle a bit on thicker leather, say more than 2mm...........a rotary knife is good for straight cuts on thinner leather, say up to 2mm. You could think about getting a stronger, heavier knife......a Stanley/utility/box cutter knife is cheap enough and you may well have one already.........a Clicker Knife is purpose made for cutting leather; it is a bit more expensive, but not impossible.....replaceable blades can be resharpened, and seem to be better than new....in fact even new blades work better if you sharpen them first

Use fine abrasive paper like wet & dry, working from about 800 grit to 7,000 grit in increments, followed by a strop. Make your own strop from oddments of wood & leather...........use a proper stropping compound, green chromium dioxide is as good as any.......a small bar isn't expensive and will last for ages

Make a light first cut to mark the line of the cut and make a start for the knife to follow; them several more cuts as needed, but with medium pressure. If you try to cut in one go with a very heavy cut you may distort the leather and move the template or ruler, plus making it hard work for yourself

I started with a stitch groover but changed to dividers. I suggest you stay with the groover as this will give you a more definite line to work with..........change to dividers when & if you feel like it

Support the leather on something that is firm, but soft enough not to damage the tips of the chisels......this could be a piece of thick leather, a plastic chopping board......an old magazine. 

If it's difficult to pull out the chisel, don't twist the chisel & struggle as this will distort the leather; hold down the leather with a block of wood, and pull straight up...........polish the prongs with wet & dry, and lubricate them with beeswax............hold down the chisel with your fingers and press down so that the tips of the prongs make marks into the leather; continue to press down as you hit it with the mallet. If you only hold the chisel loosely it may shift & bounce when you hit it

Yes, go slowly & carefully till you get it right; then speed up 

There is a lot of advice & demonstration on YouTube, both for techniques, such as cutting leather, edge beveling, saddle stitch, and finished items The same sort of techniques are used for most items, so the same sort of methods will be used for belts, wallets, pouches, knife sheaths, and so on

Search for how to make a strop; cutting leather; stitching leather; sharpeninga head knife, the things you'd like to make, and anything else that interests you, and you'll see how other people do things. These channels are good - Ian Atkinson; JH Leather; Nigel Armitage; Geordie Leather, and of course there are many others.......watch as many as you have the stamina for and you'll pick up ideas

Apart from that, all I can suggest is that you practice on scrap leather till you get the line of holes as good as you can

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by zuludog

[Grumpymann]

try putting some non slip tape in the back of your straight edge. and sanding works great for small adjustments in a straight edge on the leather. 

[Frodo]

push THE BLADE. DO NOT BULL THE BLADE

CUTTING HIS ON HANDED AND HOLDING THE CAMERA WA NOT EASY !!!!

CUTTING LEATHER. PUSH, NOT PULL - YouTube

opps. cap lock stuck   

[blue duck]

You have some excellent advice here, so I will not repeat it. I will only add that as you are using a fork, that might be part of the problem with alignment. The curve in a fork makes it a bugger to get a repeatable angle. Using a fork would only be good for showing you spacing. Then using an awl you make your hole. This takes practice to get the hole perpendicular and straight. A line on the opposite (same as the front)  side can help show you where to come out. One trick would be to hammer your fork flat, this makes it easier to see the angle you are holding it at. You can also sharpen the tines to help give you a more defined mark. If you could post some pictures, it would help us point you in the right direction. Cheers.

[Rahere]

In any craft, practice and experience are irreplacable. Practice until you've made all the mistakes known to man, and then some.

[zuludog]

Ah!! It never occurred to me!

Yes, I saw that you wrote you were using a fork, but I just assumed you meant a stitching chisel because you didn't know the correct name....are you actually using a fork, as in cutlery, for eating?!

If you are, no wonder you're getting poor results....yes, you could flatten the fork and use it as a pricking iron, but you would still have to make the holes with an awl, which takes a while to learn to get good consistent results, so get a stitching chisel!

There are loads to choose from, and lots of advice on this forum and videos on YT

Diamond prongs with points, sometimes called Japanese style, are easier to use than those with flat prongs & flat tips, sometimes called the French or European style. For thicker leather such as knife sheaths get 4mm spacing; for thinner leather such as wallets get 3 to 3,5mm spacing. A 2 & 4 prong will get you started, or you can get chisels with more prongs, or sets 

In the Sewing Leather section of this forum there is a Pinned Thread - Stitching Chisels/Irons and Pricking Irons and Information by Dangerous Beans, who is Nigel Armitage. Reading that will give you a good start.

Edited May 3, 2021 by zuludog

[Tugadude]

Answering questions like this is always like trying to hit a target blindfolded.  We really don't have enough information.  The type of tools matter, the type of leather matters and we really don't know exactly what the issues are.  You have gotten lots of advice, good advice and I hope there are answers in there.

All I can tell you is that when it comes to making cuts, I found that thinner leather is more difficult because it can tend to stretch when you apply pressure with a knife.  So the knife needs to be very sharp, or, you need to learn how to use the rotary knife that I believe you have.  But again, even the rotary knife needs a sharp blade.  And you need to hold it at a consistent 90 degree angle to the leather.  And hold down tight on the straight edge too.  

Regarding the stitching, following along with the Nigel Armitage videos will help.  You can get some decent diamond stitching chisels for very little money.  I recommend Springfield Leather for that.  Weaver is another good source.

 

[Dwight]

6 hours ago, Frodo said:

push THE BLADE. DO NOT BULL THE BLADE

CUTTING HIS ON HANDED AND HOLDING THE CAMERA WA NOT EASY !!!!

CUTTING LEATHER. PUSH, NOT PULL - YouTube

opps. cap lock stuck   

That video and that visual advice was almost as dumb as the music.  

Pull the blade  . .  . you push buttons.

May God bless,

Dwight

[Frodo]

WOW,  A personal attack.  

Do you feel better now?  

Instead of being negative and thinking your way is the holy grail  

try it. you might learn something.  

The music is Mongolian Throat singing  done by a group of musicians called the HU

Very interesting culture.  you need an open mind to appreciate the music 

 

[chuck123wapati]

On 5/2/2021 at 11:28 AM, rckt1rcn said:

I am relatively new to leather work and so far two of my biggest hang ups have been getting decent looking straight cuts and my laughable attempts at stitching. I have invested in an Al Stohlman half moon knife, some break off type hobby knives, and the roller type. I understand the equipment is only a part of the success and that’s what bothers me because I know its something I am doing wrong. I would greatly appreciate any advice I could get on this subject. My next issue is stitching. I use a groover and forks to get the holes but, once again, they always seem to come out crooked and look like a pre-school project. Once again I would love some advice. Thank you in advance and thank you for creating a community where people like my self can come to learn and be encouraged. 

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                           Josh

 

 

go to the tandy website , they have a ton of Stohlman ebooks free, I have found these books may be dated but will answer every question you have on the craft cutting ,stitching etc hasn't changed a bit . https://www.leathercraftlibrary.com/category/79/ebooks?pagenum=1  

[sbrownn]

1 hour ago, Dwight said:

That video and that visual advice was almost as dumb as the music.  

Pull the blade  . .  . you push buttons.

May God bless,

Dwight

Unless it's a round knife...ever try pulling a round knife?

[sbrownn]

1 hour ago, Frodo said:

WOW,  A personal attack.  

Do you feel better now?  

Instead of being negative and thinking your way is the holy grail  

try it. you might learn something.  

The music is Mongolian Throat singing  done by a group of musicians called the HU

Very interesting culture.  you need an open mind to appreciate the music 

 

[sbrownn]

rckt1rcn was using a "round knife" or somethin similar which indeed would probably work better pushed...I'm not so sure I would push a sharp pointed X-Acto knife though; it's geometry is designed for pulling. 

[TonyV]

to cut straight keep the knife ange low

The Leather Element: Cutting Clean Edges - YouTube

 

I used a modified old dinner fork to chisel my first slim Jim holster.  Still have it!

Edited May 4, 2021 by TonyV

[Klara]

6 hours ago, TonyV said:

to cut straight keep the knife ange low

The Leather Element: Cutting Clean Edges - YouTube

 

I used a modified old dinner fork to chisel my first slim Jim holster.  Still have it!

Does anybody know what the non-slip tape is that's stuck to the back of the rulers? Because I also have a problem with cutting along a ruler.

I do however get straight enough cuts by rocking a headknife back and forth along a previously drawn line. I love my head knife, even if it's a bit of work to keep sharp. But keeping knives sharp is ine of life's essential skills (like sewing a button back on or boiling an egg) and I've just seen (once again) during breakfast preparation that even a few half-arsed strokes down a steel (or whatever) make a huge difference. 

 

[fredk]

13 minutes ago, Klara said:

Does anybody know what the non-slip tape is that's stuck to the back of the rulers? Because I also have a problem with cutting along a ruler.

Go to a hobby shop which sells items for model railways and ask for cork track underlay. Its thin cork strip, usually with adhesive tape on the back. A big roll will cost you just a few Euro

[Frodo]

It might be just me.  BUT.   I flip the ruler over and do not use the cork side

The cork lifts the ruler  up off the leather,  and your knife can set at an angle as you cut

Instead,  go buy either a bag of lead shot or a bag of BB's  make a pouch for them and use as weights to hold your projects

Here is some more of the HU   

The Hu - Song of Women with Lyrics - YouTube

[Klara]

9 hours ago, fredk said:

Go to a hobby shop which sells items for model railways and ask for cork track underlay. Its thin cork strip, usually with adhesive tape on the back. A big roll will cost you just a few Euro

Thanks, I have read about cork, or seen it on another video.  But in this case it was a dark material and semed very thin, so hopefully Frodo's concern (which I can understand, without having tried) would not apply...

[fredk]

25 minutes ago, Klara said:

Thanks, I have read about cork, or seen it on another video.  But in this case it was a dark material and semed very thin, so hopefully Frodo's concern (which I can understand, without having tried) would not apply...

The dark material might be neoprene sponge rubber. Both it and the cork can be as thin as 1mm