Plough gauge stuck roller

[plusone]

Hi all. Hoping for some advice on fixing this plough gauge up, found it in an antique shop today. No makers mark that I can see, only mark is an inscribed gv, I think this is the old owners initials. 
while it has lots of wear and needs a good sharpen everything moves except the brass roller. I’m assuming that should be free moving. 
any tips on how to unstick it?

thanks. 

[fredk]

If you can get that wing-nut off the end, then the roller unit I'd dunk into some hot oil for a while. Really hot oil, either clean engine oil, diesel, home-heating oil or even home cooking oil. Keep the oil real hot. Eventually the metal will expand enough to allow the oil to get between the bar and roller and allow you to separate them

or, is that wing nut just tightened up too much?

[TomE]

Spray with Kroil Oil. Wait. Tap on the roller with a plastic mallet.  Repeat as needed.  Patience is the secret for restoring vintage autos.  Can make penetrating oil in larger quantities from a mixture of hydraulic oil and automatic transmission fluid.

Edited January 15, 2022 by TomE
more info

[MikeRock]

I used Duck Duck Go to search vintage plough gauges....  what a wonderful rabbit hole to wander around it...  Lots of links back to this site as well. 

Enjoy.

God bless

[dikman]

That looks a bit odd, it appears that the wing nut tightens up hard against the roller?

[chuck123wapati]

49 minutes ago, dikman said:

That looks a bit odd, it appears that the wing nut tightens up hard against the roller?

yup but there is plenty of space at the other end, if someone forced it on and tightened it down over a bunch of gook then it will be a bugger to get off. I use a soldering torch and PB blaster. then drill a hole big enough for the bolt head but not the brass in a piece of flat bar, put a nut on the thread end so you don't mushroom them and add heat and lube then tap the bolt through the hole in the bar with a hammer and flat pin punch.

Edited January 15, 2022 by chuck123wapati

[chuck123wapati]

17 hours ago, plusone said:

Hi all. Hoping for some advice on fixing this plough gauge up, found it in an antique shop today. No makers mark that I can see, only mark is an inscribed gv, I think this is the old owners initials. 
while it has lots of wear and needs a good sharpen everything moves except the brass roller. I’m assuming that should be free moving. 
any tips on how to unstick it?

thanks. 

 I use a soldering torch and PB blaster. then drill a hole big enough for the bolt head but not the brass in a piece of flat bar, put a nut on the thread end so you don't mushroom them and add heat and lube then tap the bolt through the hole in the bar with a hammer and flat pin punch.

[DrmCa]

I do not see any mechanical possibility for the roller to rotate, with the pictured design. If you badly want this to work, you may have to invest into replacement parts.

Until you get the formerly winged nut off you won't know. +1 for using heat and WD40 to get it off. Later, you might want to get a replacement steel nut.

[Squid61]

I don't see how that could ever have worked as a roller!  It must be missing something at the nut end between the roller and guide that allowed it to both tighten and roll.  Breaking the roller free needs to be done but that isn't going to make it roll.

[chuck123wapati]

2 minutes ago, Squid61 said:

I don't see how that could ever have worked as a roller!  It must be missing something at the nut end between the roller and guide that allowed it to both tighten and roll.  Breaking the roller free needs to be done but that isn't going to make it roll.

the bolt should have a shoulder you can see its thicker on the head end than on the nut end. you can see the clearance on the other end between the bolt head and the roller also. 

Edited January 16, 2022 by chuck123wapati

[plusone]

Thanks for all the replies so far. 

the wing nut does loosen but the thread on the bolt is damaged at the end so can’t get it totally off. 

Not sure if these next set of pics helps any but I think the outer brass tube should roll. 
I’ll try WD40 to start with and see if I can get that thread working enough to remove the wing nut. 

[dikman]

That makes more sense, there is a shoulder in there that the washer under the wingnut should tighten against. It should be possible to fix that thread with either a fine hacksaw blade or a suitable file (at least enough to get the nut off) and heat should be enough to break the roller free of the gunk inside. Mine, btw, has a nylon roller.

[DrmCa]

Looks like a brass tube over the steel shaft.

You could take a triangular file and clean the thread up. I wonder if it's been the previous owner's way of peening the nut in place. There are many strange people in this world.

The surface of the roller needs TLC as well.

Edited January 16, 2022 by DrmCa

[dikman]

More likely the thread end was held by a pair of pliers while someone overtightened what's left of the wingnut? 

[DrmCa]

Which reinforces our opinion that the roller did not rotate since.

[Bruce H]

It might be missing a spring washer at the end of the roller? (Make a leather washer for replacement)

One might try soaking the parts in vinegar for cleanup & rust removal then hammer it with oil.

 

[chuck123wapati]

 

12 hours ago, plusone said:

Thanks for all the replies so far. 

the wing nut does loosen but the thread on the bolt is damaged at the end so can’t get it totally off. 

Not sure if these next set of pics helps any but I think the outer brass tube should roll. 
I’ll try WD40 to start with and see if I can get that thread working enough to remove the wing nut. 

if you want to save it and don't have a good knowledge of this type of work or the tools take it to a machinist. They will do what is needed to get it off and cleaned up for you. and or make you a new shoulder bolt. your going to need heat oil and a hammer and punch and vice at the least. Don't try and twist on it with pliers or the brass will be ruined it already appears to be marred but repairable.

[fredk]

Just cut that bit of  bashed up thread off. Its obvious that its not needed. The wing nut can be replaced  with a thinner lock nut

There seems to be some hammer-bashing damage to this tool

 

Edited January 16, 2022 by fredk

[bruce johnson]

i have had a few with that design. It is simple design but not very common. Normally the height is adjusted with a vertical thumbscrew. On yours the wing nut is loosened so the bolt/ roller can go up and down in that slot for different leather thicknesses. Also there is a slotted head on the end of the bolt so you can grip that end with a screwdriver while you tighten or loosen the wing nut.. The bolts are are machined down at the thread end of the bolt so the shoulder of the bolt binds on the fence, not the roller. The brass rollers are usually thinner walled than this. 

If I was to fix it here is what I'd do. Cut that broken wing nut off and have a machinist make you up a new long shouldered bolt, get some brass tube that will rotate on the shaft of the bolt. Add a washer and  wing nut and you are in business. I have found working on these old tools it is generally faster, easier, and cheaper to make or get new parts made than to try to cobble up the last guy's screw up. 

[plusone]

After some hot oil, gentle tapping, vinegar and bicarb I’ve got the roller working like the day it was made. 
Blade is sharpened, about to try my first cut with  

I’ll tackle the handle at some point  

Thanks everyone for your advice. 

[fredk]

What purpose does it serve having the roller on the top?

To me, I'd think the roller should be under the main frame ?

Edited January 28, 2022 by fredk

[plusone]

21 minutes ago, fredk said:

What purpose does it serve having the roller on the top?

To me, I'd think the roller should be under the main frame ?

Keeps the leather flat. 

[chuck123wapati]

8 hours ago, fredk said:

What purpose does it serve having the roller on the top?

To me, I'd think the roller should be under the main frame ?

maybe its upside down? Looks like it if its for right handed people.

[jcuk]

17 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

maybe its upside down? Looks like it if its for right handed people.

Yes it will be and that why sometimes its easier for me just to use the old unimproved wooden strap cutter which has served me for years, I do own a Plough Gauge, but just might treat myself to new George Barnsley left handed version in the near future being a southpaw.

https://www.georgebarnsleyandsons.co.uk/product-page/plough-gauge

Hope this helps

JCUK