Is it always this difficult?

[JLSleather]

10 minutes ago, JayEhl said:

but I do have an expectation that when I buy ANYTHING new it should work out of the box.

THANK YOU -- finally SOME sanity in a pool of crazy.

If you're  buying something USED, you might legitimately expect an issue (or even multiple issues).  NEW means it DOES WHAT ITS SUPPOSED TO.

I'm always confused (but NOT impressed) by people's willingness to pay NEW / RETAIL / FULL price for goods that need to be worked on BEFORE you use them.  Now, there ARE legit considerations  ...

I helped a gal other day assemble some cheap furniture you get on Amazon and assemble yourself (or get the bald guy up the road to do it).  It comes with a PRICE TAG that ALLOWS you to assemble yourself, and the FREELY OFFERED STATED POSITION that you WILL have to assemble it. 

But I will not pay retail for stuff that i have to FIX or REWORK before I use it.  I have bought a HANDFULL of sewing awls (not to mention other blades) that arrive DULL.  which ended up RETURNED because they wouldn't cut.  OH WAYTY .. I get to tell that old story AGAIN!~....

Went to local Tandy, St. Paul MN.  Asked about their 9/10 oz double shoulder tooling cow and a sewing awl THAT WORKS.  Found a nice looking, firm belt hide in that stack, good size for belts.  Gal brought me the "premium" awl (or some such adjective, maybe "top shelf").  So I said I've bought too many that DONT cut, so how bout I TRY this one.  Went to poke it thru the leather (an awl worth owning should easily pierce 9/10 veg tanned leather).  Manager came ALMOST AT A RUN, wants to know what's going on.  I said
ILL TAKE THE LEATHER, and IF this awl cuts like it should, I'll take that too. 
If it doesn't work, I'll take the leather and  you can KEEP the piece of metal you're calling an "awl". 

Wouldnt cut, and I mean I LEANED on it a bit and still wouldn't pierce. Left the awl there.  Yeah, I COULD HAVE got out a stone and some oil and FIXED it, but WHY SHOULD I?  

Same thing with oblong punches (think holster slots) from Weaver, which were JUNK.  I GAVE THEM AWAY (BTW, the so-called Hermann Oak tooling leather I got from Weaver was also pathetic - I sold it at about 40¢ on the dollar to a guy making knife sheaths, who was able to cut smaller bits between the MANY imperfections, and marked it in my mind as a lesson learned - never been  back there).

Rings Mfg (blue guns) has sent me quite a few very acceptable holster molds (dummy guns).  The ones that weren't got returned.  Yes, I could "rework", but I'm NOT in that line of work, nor should I need to since YOU CLAIMED it was an accurate representation of the "real" gun.  

SLC advertised genuine python 39"x8".  Price wasn't SO bad for python, and it seemed a good call to buy by the meter since I generally dont' like snake but had agreed to use it for a special request.  I got a piece that was 17"x5-6", which for the math-challenged is NOT 39"x8".  It's a belt, so I don't NEED it to be 8", but that IS what I paid for.  Now, I "COULD" have cut in lengthwise and used 2 PIECES to inlay that belt.  But WHY would I do that?  How about just send me what I ordered and paid for?
I complained, and they DID replace it with a piece which CERTAINLY WAS acceptable.  But that wasted DAYS on a project that HAD TO BE delivered on time (anniversary presents lose some of the punch when they're LATE).  Had to push back some OTHER work to get that out on time.  For those who don't follow stories well, I MEAN SENDING ME THE REPLACEMENT DOES NOT "MAKE IT RIGHT"... and does not FIX the situation.
Now, everybody I talked to and "rescheduled" was okay with it, so not earth-shattering destruction here.  But I paid FULL / RETAIL price, allowed time in the schedule to get everything needed and time the work, fit in my work flow, and organize it all.  Then - due to this simple FAILURE TO CONFIRM WHAT THEY SHIP OUT - I ended up killing the time on the phone and emails with customers who WERENT GOING TO get their projects quite when I had said.  I'm okay with apologizing when I'm wrong, but I admit that I SUCK AT sucking up when I DIDNT CAUSE IT.

Phew .....

[JLSleather]

51 minutes ago, Daffy said:

I don't buy a car with the expectation that a mechanic sits on standby for me waiting to work on it or offer free advice on how to fix it.

Uh... WHY would you need a mechanic for a NEW vehicle? 

If a NEW vehicle is not running right,  I wouldn't buy it. 

If it's a USED vehicle, I would consider the possibility would have an issue or two, and I would EXPECT the price tag to reflect that.

If IT WAS ME that caused it to not run right, that would be different and that would be ON ME.

[kgg]

2 hours ago, JayEhl said:

Maybe it's just me, but I do have an expectation that when I buy ANYTHING new it should work out of the box. 

I agree.

My expectation of a new anything particularly a sewing machine is that it works out of the box except for minor adjustments, thread tension type stuff. Unless it is a Chinese Patcher which is a "tinkers delight" or a used machine I expect it to sew properly in forward and reverse for the needles sizes and thread sizes it is rated for. Yes, I can do some of my own repairs but not everyone wants or should be a sewing machine mechanic. If a machine requires 4 or 5 hours of adjustments before it sews properly what does that say about the initial quality control at the manufacturing level. Like the old saying "you get what you pay for" the difference that separates dealers is the level of service they can provide.

I do like brand name equipment and Juki has never disappointed me, yes they are more expensive but the quality difference can be great and noticeable. I have test rode a few clones and I do admit some were good while others I would put them in the "sounded like a bucket of bolts banging around" category.  

kgg

 

[Gregamee]

I have an Artisan Toro 4000R. I bought it new some 6+ years ago and its been sitting for approx 5. I moved and my skills have gone from mediocre to crap.To top it off my machine is hanging up in the bobbin something cronic. Sewing doesnt look bad on top but underneath it's a mess. I need some type of troubleshooting assistance badly. Can anyone give me some kind of direction?

 

[DrmCa]

Not trying to be a devil's advocate, but everything is painfully slow these days. Many businesses are chronically out of stock. Time to ship is slow. Shipping time is ludicrous. People are frustrated bordering on angry.

[Spyros]

I think every sewing machine comes threaded, and with a piece of stitched leather still hanging from the needle, specifically to prove that it works when it was delivered.  

But I don't think this is what this thread is about, it is about lack of responsiveness when people tried to contact some dealers.

[TheDavidLeathermanShow]

Hello my fellow craftsman,

I understand a lot of your frustrations with quality service, I own and operate a construction company in ohio. It seems the days of quality customer service as well as some product manufacturers have jumped on the it’s “due to COVID” excuse wagon. I have a lot of suppliers that instead of doing their job and looking for something that’s available immediately jump to the 10-12 week or if at all excuse. I was told this morning 18-20 weeks on a certain product that was ordered 6 weeks ago (that was supposed to arrive yesterday) was due to COVID! I called the owner of the supply company that I’ve met before to discuss the issues at hand. Low and behold my order was in fact there , the employee was just too darn lazy to look it up on his computer. With all the being said there is a glimmer of light, and the whole point of my post is that if you look hard enough there is always a diamond in the rough. And that diamond being Ryan Neel owner of Neels Saddlery. His office is over an hour from where I live, he is located in North Lima, Ohio. The man is a genius when it comes to sewing machines. So to the original poster , give Ryan a call!!!!

He deals in cowboy machines and I was just at his shop last week he has a boat load of machines in stock. He will for sure return your call, I haven’t even bought one of his machines, but I will say without a doubt he has treated me with the utmost quality and respect. Has worked on my machine like he was the one that sold it to me, provided me with accessories and parts that will work for my machine as well as suppliers that stock parts that he doesn’t. I’ve called for advice numerous times and he has always called me back within the hour. Has always pointed me in the correct direction with all my sewing and leather working needs. And the man is a human dictionary of knowledge when it comes to sewing machines. He can tell you in depth about all the machines on the market new and old, what machines parts are compatible with other machines. Again I have picked his brain about anything sewing related on numerous occasions and he has always answered my questions and then some, he has NEVER and I mean NEVER made me feel like I was wasting his time or that my needs weren’t important to him. Has always given his utmost full attention when speaking with him.

I bought my machine used off Craigslist, it was out of time and the bobbin case was wrecked, numerous screws were lose as if someone disassembled it and then poorly reassembled it. I sat it his work area while he fixed and tuned my machine and went thru it top to bottom for about 4 hrs all the while I asked questions and he gave answers. Offering  me a cold soda , set me up with needles, thread, oil, and an extra bobbin case he had laying around. He even gave me a lesson on using the machine for about an hour. He gave me a bill that I will certainly say was very cheap for what he had performed. He called me the next day to make sure the machine was performing well. Gave him a call a month later for some pointers and advice and he remembered who I was as well as my machine. This guy knows what quality customer service is to the letter and he has made a customer for life! Seriously cannot recommend this fella enough! So again to the original poster give Ryan a call you will be extremely happy you did! Ryan Neel if you are on this forum I cannot thank you enough!

Best regards,

Dave

[Spyros]

3 hours ago, TheDavidLeathermanShow said:

Hello my fellow craftsman,

I understand a lot of your frustrations with quality service, I own and operate a construction company in ohio. It seems the days of quality customer service as well as some product manufacturers have jumped on the it’s “due to COVID” excuse wagon. I have a lot of suppliers that instead of doing their job and looking for something that’s available immediately jump to the 10-12 week or if at all excuse. I was told this morning 18-20 weeks on a certain product that was ordered 6 weeks ago (that was supposed to arrive yesterday) was due to COVID! I called the owner of the supply company that I’ve met before to discuss the issues at hand. Low and behold my order was in fact there , the employee was just too darn lazy to look it up on his computer. With all the being said there is a glimmer of light, and the whole point of my post is that if you look hard enough there is always a diamond in the rough. And that diamond being Ryan Neel owner of Neels Saddlery. His office is over an hour from where I live, he is located in North Lima, Ohio. The man is a genius when it comes to sewing machines. So to the original poster , give Ryan a call!!!!

He deals in cowboy machines and I was just at his shop last week he has a boat load of machines in stock. He will for sure return your call, I haven’t even bought one of his machines, but I will say without a doubt he has treated me with the utmost quality and respect. Has worked on my machine like he was the one that sold it to me, provided me with accessories and parts that will work for my machine as well as suppliers that stock parts that he doesn’t. I’ve called for advice numerous times and he has always called me back within the hour. Has always pointed me in the correct direction with all my sewing and leather working needs. And the man is a human dictionary of knowledge when it comes to sewing machines. He can tell you in depth about all the machines on the market new and old, what machines parts are compatible with other machines. Again I have picked his brain about anything sewing related on numerous occasions and he has always answered my questions and then some, he has NEVER and I mean NEVER made me feel like I was wasting his time or that my needs weren’t important to him. Has always given his utmost full attention when speaking with him.

I bought my machine used off Craigslist, it was out of time and the bobbin case was wrecked, numerous screws were lose as if someone disassembled it and then poorly reassembled it. I sat it his work area while he fixed and tuned my machine and went thru it top to bottom for about 4 hrs all the while I asked questions and he gave answers. Offering  me a cold soda , set me up with needles, thread, oil, and an extra bobbin case he had laying around. He even gave me a lesson on using the machine for about an hour. He gave me a bill that I will certainly say was very cheap for what he had performed. He called me the next day to make sure the machine was performing well. Gave him a call a month later for some pointers and advice and he remembered who I was as well as my machine. This guy knows what quality customer service is to the letter and he has made a customer for life! Seriously cannot recommend this fella enough! So again to the original poster give Ryan a call you will be extremely happy you did! Ryan Neel if you are on this forum I cannot thank you enough!

Best regards,

Dave

That sounds great, and good for you to pass the message along

I *suspect* that many, if not all of the guys mentioned here start out something like that, and want to stay like that, but at some point work catches up to them and they just don't have the time to offer that kind of quality service or even answer the phone sometimes.   And everybody knows how difficult and risky it is to find and hire good help.

But like I said, I don't actually know the specific circumstances of each dealer, just speculating. 

[RockyAussie]

11 hours ago, Gregamee said:

I have an Artisan Toro 4000R. I bought it new some 6+ years ago and its been sitting for approx 5. I moved and my skills have gone from mediocre to crap.To top it off my machine is hanging up in the bobbin something cronic. Sewing doesnt look bad on top but underneath it's a mess. I need some type of troubleshooting assistance badly. Can anyone give me some kind of direction?

 

I and I am sure a few others here may be able to help but ....so as to not highjack this thread it would be worth starting a new thread of its own. Please post some pictures showing what you are calling a mess top and bottom as that will help to narrow down the problem. There are many different reasons that can cause a mess underneath like wrong needle wrong thread combination to start with. Remember that pictures need to be reduced in size before posting to a maximum of 1.4mb in total.

[jrdunn]

4 hours ago, Spyros said:

That sounds great, and good for you to pass the message along

I *suspect* that many, if not all of the guys mentioned here start out something like that, and want to stay like that, but at some point work catches up to them and they just don't have the time to offer that kind of quality service or even answer the phone sometimes.   And everybody knows how difficult and risky it is to find and hire good help.

But like I said, I don't actually know the specific circumstances of each dealer, just speculating.

I was kind of wondering the same thing when I read David's post.  I just ordered a machine, so I kinda wished I had known this before.  Then, I thought "Assume there are 10 people on the forum right now wanting to order a machine.  We all call him this morning.  He is "busier than a one armed paper hanger in a windstorm", his machines are out of stock and can't remember where he put his coffee, much less what my name is."  I'm not making excuses!  I want my machine to work out of the box.  I have no doubt that Neel is indeed a great guy and wish I had heard about him sooner.  Now, I'll stick with the bronc I saddled(dealer I ordered from), hope for the best and work through the rest.

JM2C,

Jim