katsass

From the old grump: I do much as Luke does, but I have a few of belt loop forms (made by a woodworker friend) that really help.. These were made to assist in forming the belt loop on holsters, Just a simple 'paddle' blade, with a handle, of appropriate width and thickness for the belt loop intended to be used. I slip a piece of leather beneath the wet keeper, wrap it around the combined leather and form, staple the butt ends into the leather insert and allow to dry. Mike

From the grumpy old guy: For manual application of dye (Dauber, foam brush, etc) Chavez has it down pretty well, except that with the solvent based dyes it should be Denatured Alcohol. Those types of dyes can be cut quite a bit with the stuff. I've gone as far as 30/1 (Denatured Alcohol to dye), but multiple coats at 45 to 90 degrees will cover best. Allow plenty of drying time after the last coat. Mike.

From the grump; Chavez - you did good !! Edges, stitching, all looks great, and thanks for the thanks, and you're entirely welcome.. Mike

From the grump; In the past, when applying dyes heavily, I've had the stuff take on a 'green', almost iridescent color, but buffing and then a coat of my 'poor-man's Resolene', (as some have named it) a 50/50 mix of Mop and Glow and water, cured it. You however, have come up with something a bit different, the finish turning green. I suspect that the dye was just not totally dry, and the Leather Sheen picked up some of it when applied. If you used a water based dye, the Leather Sheen, when applied by hand, brush, wool shearling, etc, will often pick up some of the dye, and with that manual application, will do some odd things. That can be remedied by using an airbrush, or in a pinch an old Windex pump sprayer. (Windex seems to work better as it seems to put out a finer spray pattern) Just stay off of the project a distance, and 'mist' on a coat. Two fine coats are usually plenty. As to dye drying, even solvent based dyes take longer to dry than it actually appears to be needed. The surface may feel dry in a short period of time, yet not be so down in the leather. I live in a desert area, (at 5:00am this morning it was 72 degrees and heading for around 102 today - and for the next ten days or so) and I allow my stuff to dry for at least 12 hours, and in cooler weather up to 24 hours prior to even handling the stuff. As to stiff or firmly molded leather, heat will do that. Now, I make my stuff from a double layer of 4/5oz veg-tanned leather, just to get that extra rigidity - and a lined holster. Too much heat will irreversibly damage the leather. In the worst of winter, with snow on the ground, the most I ever use is an old, little electric space heater set on 'low heat' and blowing into a vented cardboard box - from a couple of feet away. The idea is to warm the leather to assist in the evaporation of the moisture from the molding process, and to keep the warm air moving over the holster to send the damp air away - as quickly as possible. Any temp above 150 degrees is too much. In most of the year, if temps are above 80 or so, just sit you stuff up off the ground, blacktop driveway, cement walk, etc. and let old Ma Nature breath and smile on it. Try this, on a nice warm summer day, walk out and slap your grubby mitt down on the sidewalk, driveway, patio, or plain old dirt. Feel just how warm it is. If you have one of those neat laser type thermometers, run that puppy around on a bunch of different surfaces out in bright sunlight. You'll be surprised at just how warm it gets. Out here, on a warm day (not a good scortcher) the surface of gravel n my front yard will easily hit 150 degrees. Just sit your project up on a small cardboard box and let the natural heat and gentle breeze take care of the drying. If you use an oven to dry stuff, you are do yourself and the leather a disservice IMO. You aren't going to get nearly enough air flow to do things in a reasonable manner, and even at the lowest setting, the comon household oven is too damned hot. Warm air moving over your project is what is needed, and remember, you ain't baking muffins. JMHO mike

From the grump; Very good looking work. Mike

From the old grump; Good looking work, however I think that you might need to tuck the stitch line in a bit closer to that shooter on both, and follow the contour of the trigger guard a bit better - on the second one. Other than that I see no problems. Keep it up, great job for beginning holster work. Mike

I think you did the right thing. A customer that wants something that he is not totally sure about, but insists on being able to micro manage the process of design and construction, is one that will never be satisfied. That picture that sits in his mind's eye will constantly shift, and you will never be able to anchor it down. Good call, in my opinion. Mike

From the grump: I have a standard, two piece disclaimer which covers the make, mod, serial number and condition of the gun in question. It also includes the statement that the weapon is to be used only for pattern making and molding of the holster. The requirements of the design are then hand written in and the customer signs my copy, and I sign and date his for my receipt of the weapon. Upon return of the weapon my customer signs a statement that the gun was returned in 'the same condition as received', on the date indicated. That copy stays with me -- in what some may laughably call my 'filing system'. Mike

The old grump here, started by making the first one for himself. I learned to repair tack as a kid, but scrounged up some skirting leather on our ranch and made that first one for a S&W K-22 Masterpiece - that I wish I still had. First gun I ever bought..I was around 16 at the time. After playing games in the sun and fun capitol of southeast Asia, I went into Law Enforcement and made off-duty rigs for a few friends. The word started to get around that I made holsters and more officers had me make things to their own requirements. Some folks at the local gun club saw some of my work and my customer numbers grew. All by word of mouth and a look-see at the things I made. My advertising now consists of a business card on a bulletin board at the local shooting range, and at a couple of gun shops in my area. I still make holsters upon order only, and most are pretty plain-Jane, but very sturdy and serviceable. I make mine in a different way than most makers, and take my time. I make no 'stock' items, and all rigs start with a new hand drawn pattern, which is discarded after that single use. I'm a dinky, one man operation, and folks wait for my product because nobody expects an old fart to do ANYTHING in a hurry - and that now being retired, I just might want to go fishing or shoot a few rounds of trap. But I have enough orders to keep me busy, and not make this endeavor into a JOB. I'm also very discerning as for whom I construct my pieces. Mike P.S. The 'katsass' maker's mark makes up for any of my shortcomings.

From the grump: Very nice work. My only comment might be that I always keep the muzzle end open. NOBODY ever cleans out the crud that shows up down there - and you'd be surprised just how much junk ends up in a closed toe holster. Mike

From the grump: I use the hole punch and chisel method also. I got a set of hole punches and a set of wood chisels (Chinese made) for very little money at Harbor Freight. The chisels probably aren't too good on wood, but for punching through leather they work well. With the various sizes of each, you can pick the width and length needed for about any slot you want, and one good whack with a 16oz mallet (or any suitably heavy and available object) punch right through. Mike

From the grumpy old guy; The idea MAY have some merit, however, remember that the addition of neatsfoot oil will always darken your dye job to a certain extent. Neatsfoot oil compound more so than pure neatsfoot oil. Also remember that each dead cow skin will accept the dye, and oil, to varying degrees, even different areas of the same skin will vary, so that a 'standard' formula will not generally work out to be exactly the same when used on another skin, or another area of the same chunk of dead cow hide.. Leather weight and tanning processes will also vary the final appearance if using a 'standard' formula on different skins. A final thing to think about is the finish. Most also add a bit of darkening to the dye after application. As to casing or wetting the leather prior to the application of a solvent based dye, I've never been too sure of this idea. To me (and I may be wrong) the denatured alcohol used in dyes is not all that compatible with regular water - that old 'oil and water' thing. You can dump a little of each in a bottle, shake the hell out of it and get an emulsion, but after a little time - they separate. For a reasonably even tone of 'tan' color, I generally give the piece of leather a shot of pure neatsfoot oil then set it out in old Ma Nature's bright smile for a while to 'tan'. You never get exactly the same shade, or even hue of tan from differing pieces of leather, but that's kind of the beauty of using natural substances in your construction - natural variation. JMHO. Mike . .

You are going to have to be a bit more descriptive, don't know what you're talking about. Mike

From the grump, Unless the thing were to be black (back when I made single thickness holsters) I'd leave the flesh side (inside) natural, but case it and burnish it smooth. After assembly, I'd hit it with a shot of neatsfoot oil and let 'er go. Now I make most holsters from a double layer of 4-5oz, bonded and stitched together. That gives me a lined holster that, after wet molding becomes much more firm that a single thickness of similar weight (8-10oz) leather. But even then, I leave the inside natural - with a shot of neatsfoot oil. Mike

Jason, you can order up a 12 -13oz 'stirrup strip' (which is plenty heavy for a gunbelt), then line it with 2 - 3oz of your choice. It's a little easier to work with and still plenty firm. Mike

From the grumpy old guy; Joe, those stitching chisels are useless, nasty, little things IMO. When using a chisel, your stitching will never come out as good as it will with an awl and an overstitch. Learn to use an awl. It isn't all that difficult, but DOES take practice. I'd advise you to get Al Stohlman's book on "The Art of Hand Sewing Leather" , work at it a while and you'll be much better off, again in my opinion. I hand stitch everything I make, from holsters and knife sheaths to belts, it takes time, but the finished product is worth it. A bit of my stitching, all in 6 stitches per inch (6spi).done with an awl. And, as in the last two pics, you can go through as much leather as needed with an awl -- not so with the chisel. Mike

From the grump; if you notice, my lining does not go all of the way to the tip of the belt. Just 'tain't necessary, and with 12 - 13oz skirting, it's going to be a bit difficult to buckle. A little 'conditioner' (not neatsfoot oil0 on the flesh side softens the tip end up nicely. I use a paste type (that melts in the summer heat) conditioner that I've had for years, don't even remember where I got it 'cause the label is long gone Mike

From the grump:: Thanks to all for the compliments, they are appreciated. Rawhide; The belt was cut from a 'stirrup strap' from Springfield Leather. The final color is just a light shot of pure neatsfoot oil and a bunch of desert sun. Mike

It's been a while since I have shown anything because I haven't been doing much. Ma Kat has been recuperating from surgery, and I've been chief cook and bottle washer during her physical rehab and getting to be able to move around. An old customer wanted a 2" wide, simple gunbelt, so I put it together in fits and starts. Made from 2" wide, 12oz saddle skirting, lined, tapered, hand stitched with dark brown waxed linen, and edges burnished but left natural to match the color of the belt itself. Just a basic, simple belt.Mike

From the grump; First off you are trying to do two things at once --- learn to make a holster , then also trying to learn to do basket stamping at the same time..That's kind of a rough way to go, as you have learned. Michael (mlapaglia) has given you the proper formula to get the stitch line down pretty close, so here is a copy from my fifty (plus) year old Al Stohlman book on how to properly do basket stamping. Looking at your stamping, even though it isn't too good of a picture, I don't think old Al would mind that I copied this quick tutorial to give you a hand. Blow it up big enough to read, and follow it, step by step --- your stamping should improve measurably. This is how I learned to do basket stamping waaay back when, and although I don't do much of it anymore, I can still whump out a fairly decent piece of work. Keep it up, you're on your way. Mike

From the old grump: Seems to be OK along the top strap but needs to contour more around the trigger guard and especially at the front of the frame. As it sits, I would expect to see the gun start to sag on down into the holster as far as the frame will go toward the existing stitch line. Mike.

ALRIGHT Matt, that's enough!!. With that back side view you take one of the little pleasures of an old grump away from him --- nothing else to gripe about. Good work. Mike

K-Man, as you say, all are free to disagree with one another, but again I believe you misconstrued my statements regarding chiefjason's rig.. The holster that chiefjason pictured was/is not a multitask type holster -- period. He indicated that on previous attempt he tried to put together something similar to it which would serve as both an OWB as well as an IWB rig -- a multitask type holster --- it didn't work out too well. I still believe that a multitask holster is not quite as serviceable as one made specifically for a single purpose. I don't say that the type pictured is a bad design, I do say that there better designs (IMO) which serve the same purpose -- in a more compact, and less complex way. As to the number of the product sold, I have seen a number of rigs sold by many big name makers go on for years, and sold in huge numbers. How about the break-front styles so prevalent some years back? Or the cross draw pull-through styles? Both great successes -- for a while. I'm very much a traditionalist in my design and work, but I'll never dispute your right to move on to newer styles as you see fit, nor design as you wish, or hold your personal beliefs.. That is the beauty of this Republic in which we both reside, some of the the freedoms we both enjoy. I'll agree to disagree with you on some points here and there, but in the end, I'll bet we aren't to damned far apart, on too damned many things overall. 'Nuff said. Mike

From the grump; Matt you did a fine job, not only with the airbrush, but the entire rig. I personally dislike the exposed muzzle, but that's a personal thing and not a reflection on your workmanship. My only negative comment would be that the mag release is covered, and generally that ain't too good of a thing. Mike

From the grump: With all due respect K-Man, you seem to have misconstrued my statements. My initial statement went to chiefjason's initial statement, in which he indicated that his first try was to be a 'multitasker' --- and he found that it didn't work out too well. Being fully aware that there are many places that a concealed weapon is not allowed, or, in the situation which I vaguely described, I indicated that, as a LEO, were I to be in a situation where (and I HAVE been there) the quick removal of the entire rig was needed -- I utilized a paddle holster -- made by AKER of San Diego. (actually Chula Vista, CA --, nice folks) and certainly would not try to wear a pancake style when the possibility of those instances could arise. I personally do not care a whole bunch for pancakes, but of the ilk, I much prefer the 'Enhanced Pancake', designed by Ray of Lobo Gun Leather; a much better design I feel, than the common or standard pancake holster. The vast majority of the shooting public can plan on where and when they wish or need to travel to a location which restricts individuals from carrying a concealed weapon, even those with a concealed weapon permit, and plan accordingly. Most folks that carry concealed regularly have more than one holster in my experience, and if not, they damned well should.. I'm not knocking chiefjason in any way, nor the type of rig pictured in chiefjason's post, except to say that from the point of view of simple physics, when suspending a mass, the farther from that mass the suspension points are, the less practical the design. And you have to admit that the style of rig we are actually discussing has the suspension points out there a bit. My aversion to snaps (even 'pull-the-dots'), straps, spring steel retentions etc. comes from more than a couple of years of experience of working, living and playing in an area often covered by light to heavy brush which seems to want to grab, pull, scratch and tug at anything that gets close to it. Maybe a step or two down from the 'Big Thicket' in Texas, but generally rough country. A place where a good address is an RR (rural route) Box number, and the actual location of the residence is somewhere off on the end of one of a spiderweb of dirt trails through the brush, and, invisible from the location of said RR Box. A place that is often impossible or impractical to just put the car in 'Drive' and cruise up to the curb. As said, my experiences cover more than a few years, and unless you were asking your mother for a penny for candy in 1940, I think I may have a day or two on you. As to LEO experience, unless you have defied the norm and spent over 35 years at it, I may have a little on you there also. As to firearms experience, I spent an extended stay in the sun-and-fun capitol of South East Asia in my youth, and ended up as a LEO certified to teach the use of law enforcement handguns (both revolver and auto pistols), shotguns, tactical rifle, and full auto small arms. I was also a certified armorer. My entire intention was to suggest to chiefjason that he might think about the combination of his desires, uses, and the ultimate requirements for any given holster he wishes to construct, and consider all elements when doing his design. As to my opinions on mechanical devices commonly used in many holsters, from my personal experience, and those of others working, living and playing away from the paved streets and lights of the city, or the confines of a dedicated firing range, I'll stand by them. Mike.