katsass

Sorry Bob, I guess that I wasn't specific enough, I'm speaking of sanding the EDGES of the mouth and toe, and along the edges of the belt loop.areas, then burnishing those areas -- because after folding and stitching down, they will be difficult to get to for burnishing a nice finished edge. After stitching down the loop, sand the cut edges of the mouth and toe of the thing with about 220 grit paper, and then burnish Almost any fairly heavy cloth will do for buffing out fresh, dry, dye. An old washcloth, soft burlap, old T-shirts etc. I just like to use denim from old, worn out jeans. I place the gun used for molding in a plastic freezer bag, stuff the gun down as far as it will go into the damp (NOT WET) holster and mold by use of my hands and fingers only. What you are speaking of is 'boning' a holster -- after molding, and any solid SMOOTH object will work. Many use a polished antler tip, the smooth end of a 'Sharpie' pen, a toothbrush HANDLE, etc. It's kind of like whatever suits your fancy and what is at hand. I don't think I'd use the creaser. I personally do not bone my holsters because my construction method precludes a good 'boned' effect. Lastly, sand and burnish the stitched edge of the holster after molding, because the molding process can easily reshape that stitched edge. Hope this helps a bit. Mike P.S. Leave the gun in the damp holster for long enough to firm up the leather well, then EASE the gun out and allow the thing to dry, undisturbed, thoroughly. Since I live in a desert area where the humidity is well below 20% generally, I leave the gun in the holster and in the sun for as little as 1/2 hour. Then remove the gun and allow to dry thoroughly. You may have to leave the holster and gun out in the sun for as much as an hour, depending on temp and humidity. After removal of the gun, allow it to dry at least overnight.

From the grumpy old guy. From my experience, those German WWII leather items, along with the Japanese, Italian, and Chinese that I have had my grubby mitts on are generally VERY dried out and actually brittle. If you try to ease an awl or even a needle through the existing holes, the leather tears out or (at the worst) breaks apart. IMO I'd leave it alone. It's better (and worth more) to have an original item in somewhat rough shape than to have an original item, damaged as the result a not-so-good repair job. JMHO Mike

OK Sam, I cut my pattern out, dye it (if I'm going to), and since I use two layers of 4/5oz leather stuck together on their flesh sides I sand and burnish the toe, and the mouth (including the belt loop of the thing. I then groove for stitching those areas, mark the stitch holes and go to stitching. I stitch partially around the toe and then I stitch partially around the belt loop, then stitch it down in place. I wet the thing down, make the fold and allow to dry. Glue in the welt (if needed) glue those sides together, sand smooth, gouge my stitch line and go to stitching, matching in with the stitched toe. Finish sand the edge and burnish. Wet mold. Apply finish. On yours, you just need to sand and burnish the mouth and toe areas, and around the belt loop, and since you are there now -- dye the thing. When good and dry, buff it well with a semi coarse cloth (soft denim works well) stitch the belt loop down, make the fold and glue it up, sand the edge, gouge your stitch line, and go to stitching. When done, wet again, allow to dry out a bit (case it) and do your molding, then burnish the edge. When dry, apply your finish. Mike

In my experience, to make good solid brands, the wire has to be red-hot and glowing. One shot is all you get when placing the iron to the leather, and it'll sizzle, squeak, and smoke a bit, but a good deep impression is what is needed. Practice on some scrap first. Mike

Well, the issue is that I'm old, far-sighted,, didn't have my correct glasses on, and didn't notice the swivel studs sticking out between the lacing ---- so, disregard all previous questioning on my part. Mike

From the old grump, Burning (branding) latigo will work well. Sorry that I have no pics of a branded latigo item, however here's a veg-tanned holster with replicas of southwestern brands done with small diameter wire (thin coat-hanger wire works also) and a propane torch. No torch? - Ma's gas stove works well also - as long as she doesn't have a fit from the 'burning flesh' odor. Mike

Welcome from the old grump; There is a pot-load of good holster makers on here, all willing to give you a hand when needed. A few suggestions before you really get going: First, get the book "How to make Holsters" by Al Stohlman. Most holster makers have an old beat-up copy laying around, mine was purchased in the early 60's. Second, go to someone like Springfield Leather, they advertise on here (Google them) order a catalog and see what a TRUE leather supply outfit is like - there's more in the catalog than they can put on line, and they are easy to talk to and work with. Finally, once you get going (this is what I tell all that I work with) "slow down and take your damned time", your work will benefit from slow, deliberate effort. Mike

Jamcam, from the old grump. I think that unless you overdid the Mop&Glo, you'll find that the finish should wear pretty well. I started using it over 40 years ago and have never looked back. The trick is to mist the stuff on, too much and it ain't good. As in many cases moderation is the key. Hope it works out for you. Mike

From the old grump: I really looks good, however, in my experience, it seems as though it may try to slip forward on the stock during recoil, especially with some 00 buck loads. Have you fired a few through the scattergun with it on yet? Mike

A wise man told me once that "just because you haven't cut yourself recently, is no reason to get rid of the bandaids"

Bill -- ain't that the truth! 'Planned obsolescence' is now, more than ever, the name of the game. I used to be able to work on my car, not so's you'd notice anymore! But those that can work on my car just see $$$$$ when anyone shows up. Not only are things made to be thrown away, they charge you for the privilege. About 12 years ago I got a cell phone for "emergencies". Basically it was so I could get hold of Ma when I was going to be held over after an already 12 hour shift. But this idea of one for emergencies was more in case of something happening to me on the road - to and from work. I'm home now all the time so I don't use it - it's charged and if the power goes out I can call Edison to get a busy signal, and try a dozen more times. This 'in case of emergency' as advertised by many, is a farce. If you are 50 miles away from home and you get a call indicating some tragedy has struck (sink stopped up) -- what the hell are you going to do? You're 50 miles away! And if I'm out wandering the boondocks, nobody is going to find me in time to do anything anyway, 'cause I'm out in the boondocks AWAY from people, on purpose. Anyhow, my first one took a dump within a few years. (Hell I have somewhere in my junk an old, stand-up dial phone that still works if I plug it in.) SO, a new one was 'needed'. I go to the store and see prices of up to $300 or so -- for a damned telephone - that does everything in the world but work to call others. I finally find one down in a corner for $25. It's a telephone - that's all. I pay $20 every 90 days to keep it going, and have over $400 in usable credit on it. But I have one - if I can find it. I have a computer, which can take the place of a typewriter. But to use it I have to pay to get a line into my house for the computer. I then have to buy a printer to do just what my old (1920's model) folding portable typewriter does with a piece of paper - make words on paper. I'm thinking more and more that 'technology' is more and more used for toys - expensive, unneeded toys, but hyped a NEEDED, and the bottom line is just $$$$$$. Mike

For no separate loop, the old fashioned pouch holster is the way to go - like this little rig for my personal 'snubby'. Basically a single piece of leather cut, folded, stitched and molded. Mike P.S. Maybe a little more info would help. Do you want it to be carried on your strong side, off side (crossdraw) or maybe mounted on your chair?

Bluesman, I hear you. I've got some years on you, but this site CAN be worked out - what sent me off recently was that my 10 year old, 36", 200 pound TV took a sh- uh - DUMP on me. Now, for years, you called a TV repairman, or took the thing to a place to get it fixed, or maybe just pulled some tubes and ran them in to check them -- not anymore. I had to buy a new one. I toddled up to a joint to look at the things and find that my old TV (which was a pretty good sized one back when I bought it) is now a dinky little thing, squashed down in height and stretched sideways a bit. I ended up with a 50" thing of about the same size as the old one, so that it would fit where the old one was. A kid shows up to load the thing in my car. Runs it out on a hand truck, looks in the back of my vehicle, says 'it'll fit", picks it up and slides it in. My old one weighed almost 200 pounds, and this kid picks this new one up like it's nothing!!. Get it home and my son shows up to help me out. He pulls the new one out and just carries it into the house - the thing can't weigh 60 pounds. He looks at the wires all over hell and half of Texas,from the Direct TV box and the DVD player, and starts yanking them out. He say that I won't be able to use the DVD player 'cause it's too damned old - won't look or work worth a crap on the new 'Hi Def' machine. I say what about hooking the TV to the Direct TV box? He pulls out a single cord, says that he knew that I wouldn't know to buy one, but he had an extra from when he remodeled his house, then just plugs the one cord from the box the the TV. Messes with my remote a bit and turns the new TV on. It fiddles and farts for a bit, talks to itself and finally I have bright, new picture, and off he goes. I don't think much about it, other than to think that this Hi Def stuff isn't any better than my old one. About a week later a friend drops by, sees the new TV and says that the picture looks like hell. I tell him it's just as good as the old one was. He jumps up, messes with the box, pushes a button a few times and all of a sudden, I can count the hairs on a dog's - uh - tail-end. Anyway, I can remember our first TV, an Emerson with an 8" black and white picture, and initially we used a coat hanger out the window for an antenna. This technology stuff is getting to me. I can remember that my grandmother had a cast iron cook stove, mostly wood fired, but with two gas burners on one side of the top. She never used the gas burners because she was afraid of the gas. I guess that now I understand how she felt. Mike

For what it's worth from a grumpy old guy: I agree with T.O. that in that trying to replicate a precise angle, described by someone else, is a difficult proposition. Also, that saying a specific angle is "what you need", is more or less a bunch of , uh, STUFF. I work out how much angle my customer wants, or needs - more or less just by sight and talking with him. I then I draw a horizontal line on my paper (I use cheap manila folders) indicating the belt-line then proceed to draw the pattern with that as a guide. I lay the shooter on the paper at the angle wanted, lightly mark along the barrel side, make a fold in the paper following that mark, put the shooter back on the paper, aligning the top side of the shooter in the fold, lay it over on it's side, make my outline, and go to it. Probably clear as mud, but that's how I do things. In my day 'Fitz Specials' were not uncommon, and in my experience, as long as the trigger guard cut was right at the front edge of the trigger (as it should be) at the right angle, and smoothed properly, no problems arose, Good molding is necessary. Mike

Jeff, a I have said, my favorite one is about 1/10" (.-097") wide and about 1 1/4" long. Most are probably wider but a bit of work with a stone will take care of that, just get a decent one. Mike

Jeff, IF, and I say "IF" because it generally is not the best way to do things, but IF you are going to drill stitching holes, you need to drill LITTLE BITTY holes -- smaller than 1/16" as so many do -- thinking that they are small enough. Nothing larger than a 3/64" drill bit. Drill your holes then open them with a stitching (diamond) awl. NOW, this small of a bit will NOT do well in a drill press - the machine will not turn up fast enough to stabilize the bit, so it will catch and 'wander' all over hell in leather (and most materials) and especially on heavier welts. Use a rotary (Dremel) type tool. I only use a drill when teaching beginners (that will put up with me). I have them drill a series of dinky holes, basically 'pilot' holes, place the leather in a pony and then open each hole (properly) with an awl. It's a drill some - open some - stitch some - drill some, etc. What happens is that eventually the student just goes beyond the drilled holes and begins to punch the marked spot with the awl. Then, he's off and running. AGAIN, IF you drill stitching holes, find a 3/64" bit and use a Dremel type tool. If you don't have one - you can get an inexpensive rotary tool for under $15 at Harbor Freight on sale (I just looked it up). One more thing - a smart lady here on the forum once said a very intelligent thing, and I paraphrase: 'leatherwork is not for those looking for instant gratification'. I say it a bit differently; "slow the hell down and take your damned time' - maybe that's why I have few students, and why I was labeled a grumpy old man. BUT, those that think I'm grumpy should have met the old man that taught me. In comparison I'm a sweet, lovable, old grandpa. . Mike P.S. I don't generally groove the backside of my work.

Well, Jeff, I don't profess to be an expert on stitching, but I think I do a fair job at it. First off, I will not use artificial sinew unless I'm making something specifically to appear to be very primitive. Use waxed linen thread. The stuff can be obtained from many places (including Springfield Leather) in nice little spools for a pittance. It will come in white, dark(ish) brown or black.(I personally will not go anywhere near Tandy anymore) Artificial sinew is not all that good for stitching IMO, it seems more useful in 'crafty' type things. and waxed linen has been used for 100's of years (as can be seen in the book 'Packing Iron') and holds up well. You can also get spools of 'Nyletex' (sp) which is a good synthetic thread often used. To use, I always re-wax the stuff and run it through my hands a few times to remove excess wax - even though it comes pre waxed - don't ask why, it's just the way I was taught. You should use a stitching gouge prior to stitching, so that the thread lays slightly below the surface of the leather when done. This avoids abrasion of the thread over the upcoming years. It looks also that your stitching holes are pretty big. I use a 'stitching awl", also called a 'diamond awl' or 'saddler's awl'. It's called a diamond awl due to the blade shape. A round scratch awl CAN be used, and also a stitching punch, but both are generally not really very good for real stitching IMO. First, gouge the line you wish to stitch. You'll need an adjustable stitching gouge which has a guide on it to keep the line an even distance from the edge of your work, and a free-hand pencil shaped gouge for other areas. After the gouge, I dampen the leather slightly and use an 'overstitch' tool which will mark the stitch length - a #6 is a good all-around size. (6 stitches per inch) I now poke stitching holes with my awl. My awl is slightly less that 1/10 inch wide - many are wider, but I prefer a narrow awl. Many folks poke a hole and make a stitch - I poke a pot-load of holes first, the go to stitching - it's up to you. When done stitching, I dampen the thing slightly - again - and run the ovestitch tool right over the stitch line - too 'set' the stitching (that's why it's called an overstitch). After all of this being said, you might try to get hold of Al Stohlman's book "How To Sew Leather" to read how it's done by a REAL expert. Hope this helps a bit. Just remember to just take your time. Mike

OK -- From the grump: First,I think there has been a bit of misunderstanding re: my use of Mop & Glow. I mix it 50/50 with water, apply with a an airbrush (but an old Windex pump also works well). I apply to warm leather and allow to dry for a couple of minutes, then follow with a second shot. I MIST the stuff on - lightly, this allows it to penetrate the top layer of leather.I follow the last application with a hand rubbed (no applicator - fingers only) thin coat of Kiwi 'Neutral' shoe wax, buffed out by hand with a soft cloth. Secondly, as to drilling: I use this method to teach (those that will put up with me) initial stitching. A drill press will NOT work for my method. A high speed rotary (Dremel type) tool is necessary. A drill press simply will not turn up fast enough to work with a small bit, as the bit will bend and/or wander all over hell I use nothing larger than a 3/64" bit - a 1/16" is too damned large. I have the person drill a few (10 -12) holes in a marked, gouge channel - place the piece in a pony or horse, and have them open the holes with an awl - properly. The drilled holes are nothing more than 'pilot' holes, to give the person starting out, a way to feel where and how the awl works. They drill a few, stitch a few - and pretty soon they just start poking with the awl. It's a learning tool which seems to remove the 'deflated, and demoralizing effect' of my comments on p#%%-poor initial awl work, and gives them something to look at with a little pride - when starting out. A little moistening of the leather, a run with the overstitch, and VOILA - the holes more or less disappear and a (sort-of) decent piece of stitching is the result. I feel that it is better to boost the ego of a person new to stitching, rather than continually bite them - (verbally, that is) Now, I'm not saying that what I do is correct or the best way - it's just how I do things, but it has (in the case of M&G) done well for me over the past 40 or more years - without cracking or spider-webbing, and teaching stitching my way seems to produce decent stitching a bit quicker than other methods. Mike P.S. Here is a holster that my (16 year old) grandson made - the very first thing he ever did with leather. It's stitched as I mention - done COMPLETELY by him with just a growl from me now and then. He's the one that started calling me a "grumpy old man".

From the old grump: I have nothing to comment on your math - but I'm not a mathematician, but find that attempting to be that precise (1/16") in cutting is counter productive. I make almost all of my holsters from a double layer of 4/5oz veg-tanned shoulder leather. I personally find that two layers of 6/7 oz doesn't work and come out as neatly nor as well as does two layers of 4/5oz. I think that you will find that the double thick 4/5 oz works more easily, does not (generally) need to have the liner side to be cut smaller, needs no alteration to the pattern, and still shows no buckling. The biggest thing is to bond the two flesh sides together well (I use Wldwood Contact Cement). I apply as directed on the jug of stuff, place the two pieces together, roll with an old wallpaper wooden roller, and allow to sit overnight in a warm area to ensure conplete bonding. A stack of heavy books, a chunk of marble, or any available flat, heavy object (or combination of things) placed atop also ensures total contact and bonding. I think that you will also find that, since there are two grain layers (one inside and one outside) which is where the rigidity after molding and drying is produced, that after wet molding and drying the holster will be much more firm and retain it's molded shape better than a single piece of leather of equal weight. (around 9/10 oz leather). Here's a pic of a holster I made similar in style to what you want to put together - done about a year or so ago. Very firm and rigid in shape - and the inlay of ostrich shin just adds a bit of color, texture, and interest.. JMO. Hope this helps a bit. Mike

From the old grump: VERY nicely done. Mike

From the old grump: I've made a few over the years and all of them are (were) unlined. I have a couple of old ones sitting in my shop - made back in the 20's or so - both unlined. Just determine if the scabbard will be facing foreword or backward. so that the attaching straps will be of appropriate length. Also check the location of the straps on the scabbard for balance of the rifle/carbine when in it. Mike

I do make 3" wide belts. They usually are for 'historically accurate' rigs -- something like this copy of a 100 year old (or so) rig for a Colt Single Action Army -- had to modify a bit for the Ruger Super Redhawk. One difference is that the belt is tapered - I think I see more tapered belts overall that ranger style. For those of us that have some doo-lap (a tummy that 'do lap' over the belt and buckle) it's more comfortable. Mike

Well, as to the 2" wide belt, I don't think it will fit through standard Levi's belt loops. The customer wrote me and ordered a 40", 2" wide gunbelt, with no loops, so I expect it was to be worn over his standard belt with the holster slipped over it. For heavy belts (total of 15oz or so) the roller buckle seems to work better than a standard heel-bar or center-bar buckle. You'll be doing the stitching a lot quicker on your machine - but, there is nothing quite like a heavy, hand stitched rig IMHO. Mike

Yes, for watch bands I'd use a smaller needle. Mike

From the grumpy old guy: I hand stitch everything I do, and use #1 harness needles. In my opinion you should use nothing larger than #0 (zero) sized needles. Mike P.S.Needles are sized (from larger to smaller) #00, #0, #1 etc.