Wizcrafts

The inline foot set will cause you to lose about 5/16 inch, or so, of sewing thickness, which the 4500 can deal with. But, as a plus, when I first install my holster plate (From Toledo Industrial), due to the extra elevation, I don't need to lower the presser bar to equalize the lift of the feet. It becomes a fairly simple adjustment of a crankshaft that comes from the back to move the feet vertically. I shot a couple of amateur videos on me installing the inline feet and would be willing to share them offline if you send me a PM (I'm dissatisfied with my videography).

With the 3500 and 4500 (and 5500) you have the capacity to sew at least 3/4 inch, if not a little more. With the 3200, you have 1/2 inch capacity, with possibly a tish more if you dink with the presser feet. Both of these measurements are done using the standard curved throat plate that is only about 1/16" thick. What happens if you need to sew stirrups, or holsters that have tabs on the back, or something that is shaped on the bottom and the stitch line must be elevated? When you install a holster throat plate you instantly lose between 3/8 to 7/16 inch of usable sewing capacity. If the machine is a 3200, that will leave you with about 8 ounces of sewable thickness on the throat plate, before the feet max out. With a 4500, you'll have at least 16, if not 18 ounces thickness left. Also, thicker thread requires bigger needles which add to the stress on the presser feet that are trying to hold down the stack of leather. There are many times when I have to tighten down the pressure spring all the way. And, I have an extra heavy, not standard spring on my presser bar. I don't believe that the 3200 can hold down that load.

My Singer 42-5 can handle #277 thread, but it fills the bobbins rather quickly. The bobbins are half the size of the 441 clone bobbins. I don't know of any old sewing machine with reverse that handles #277 thread properly. In fact, the only machine in my leather shop that has reverse at all is a Cowboy CB4500. It has a very large bobbin and handles up to #415 thread and #27 needles. Even my Union Lockstitch machines lacked reverse. The barbed needles would tend to rat out the previous stitches anyway. Neither did the Singer 132k6 I once had. Come to think of it, the Juki TSC-441 is now considered an old machine, since they first came out in the late 1980s. It has reverse, as does the Adler 205-370, which came out in about 1988 or 89.

Tighten down the pressure spring and run that sewing test again. If the pressure spring isn't tight enough to hold the feet firmly on the leather, the leather can lift with the needle and you'll have skipped stitches.

From the photos of the underside it seems that either there is too little top tension, or too much bobbin tension, or the needle is too small for the thickness of the thread. First, make sure you are following the full thread path and that the bobbin tension is not too high. If the knots can't be pulled up inside the leather, try a larger needle. There is a needle and thread chart on the Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines website. Find the size of thread you are trying to use and it will show the best needle size or sizes to use. For instance, if the thread is #138 (the maximum your machine is rated for), and the needle in it is a #22, move up one number to a #23 needle (leather point). The largest needle your machine may take is a #24. It gets harder to punch through as the needles get bigger. Thicker thread forms much bigger knots than thinner thread and is harder to pull up. If your thread is larger than #138, stop ruining your machine and buy some #138 thread, along with #22 and #23 leather point needles.

We'll need photos of the stitching on top and bottom of a representative piece of leather. Remove the bobbin temporarily and reinsert it so the thread feeds counterclockwise, against the slot in the case.This is the most reliable direction of feed in most instances. Make sure that the windings aren't overflowing the edges of the bobbin. Make sure you line up the tab on the case with the indent on the housing and make sure the bobbin case snaps in all the way.

I'm hoping that this thumb nut, which I am getting from Uwe (thank you), will help to fully hold down leather that is somehow not flat against the throat plate. If this doesn't stop the skipped stitches, I mad need to get a custom made presser foot with very narrow clearance between the toes. The needle, although titanium coated, is fighting against Venture Leather Tape in many instances. Only my patchers have problems sewing through this tape. All of my walkers have no problems with skipped stitches through tape. I have even pondered replacing the paddle shaped check spring with a heavier duty spring. The loops dissolve much too soon if the surface isn't flat, or there is tape between the layers.

Sounds good Uwe. How do you want to proceed?

FWIIW: I have a box of prewound small patcher bobbins that I am slowly using up. I bought them two summers ago for sewing patches at a bike show. The problem with them is that the thread is heavily bonded in some areas and lightly bonded in others. The bobbin thread tension is all over the place, from loose to binding. And, they flip over as the thread is used, changing the tension. I don't recommend investing in these pieces of shit. Wind your own bobbins in advance of the job.

Wrong answer! Those are blank bobbins. The OP asked about prewound bobbins.

I have a Singer 29k71 that would benefit from a thumb nut presser foot spring adjuster. The part number is 113088 or NN88w, which is pictured here. I'm hoping somebody in the USA has one they don't need, or NOS they can sell.

Good find, Chayse! These machines are usually shoe sole stitchers. But, the American Straight Stitch Machines can be used for holsters, harness and other thick leather jobs. They were designed before the advent of bonded nylon thread, so are best used with linen thread run through liquid wax. Some folks have been able to use bonded polyester thread in their American SS machines. Further, they have limited throat depth behind the needle. A Campbell-Randall or Union Lockstitch is more useful for saddlery. The seller lists them at over 500 pounds each.

The Juki TSC-441 came out around 1988, or so. It could sew up to 3/4 inch of whatever, using #346 thread. It is still in production and lists in the USA for about $5500, plus or minus This machine gave birth to an entire genre of similar, but improved machines known as "441 clones." Many of the modern day 441 clones can sew 3/4 inch and more, with #346 thread, top and bottom. They are sold by dealers who have ad banners on top of our pages. The top brands are Cobra, Cowboy and Techsew. The clones cost 1/2 of a real Juki and do the same work. Both Cowboy and Techsew now offer a 441 type machine that is limited to sewing 1/2 inch, but still handles #346 thread. They cost about $500 less than their bigger, thicker sewing brothers. There was a major player in the modern day heavy leather sewing business that has sadly gone out of production. It is the Adler 205-374. This machine sews 3/4 inch with up to #415 thread. Weaver Leather used to sell them new for about $6,000 or more. If you can find someone selling a used one for $3,000, grab it! Older heavy duty needle and awl harness stitchers were built from the late 1800s through the mid 1900s. I have owned Union Lockstitch machines that sewed 3/4 inch with #415 thread. The last one was from around 1910 and it sewed like it was brand new. They are favorites of the Amish and can be found in working condition for $2,000 and up. Their big brother is the Campbell Lockstitch Machine. Look it up on YouTube. There is no finer stitcher, if you can find one you can afford. Campbell Randall Company sells totally rebuilt Campbell Lockstitch machines that are like new, but you'll need a business loan. Other older harness stitchers of note are the Number 9 Machine, the Luberto Classic and the Ferdinand Bull, all of which are single needle, jump foot machines that can sew up to 3/4 inch with #415 thread. All are out of production and hard to find. These machines originally sold in the 6K range. Used ones tend to go for between $2500 and $3500. There were nice harness stitchers made by Landis (models 3 and 16) and Champion, as well as BUSM and Pearson.

The cons are that you have to have enough free space behind the first stitch for the trailing presser foot to grab onto it, and that you will lose some vertical space (~ 1/4") due to the tall upper section of the inside foot.

The marks are entirely inline with the stitch path and could be hammered or rubbed down if necessary. If one doesn't want any serious foot marks, one should use either a Union Lockstitch or Campbell Lockstitch machine with a right toe stepping foot, or a curved needle sole stitcher that has the bottom channel knife removed (e.g. a Junker and Ruh, or Frobana, or a Landis 12 that uses a curved hook and awl). Our modern compound feed harness machines place a huge amount of spring pressure on the tiny feet in order to hold down tough and thick leather from huge needles and thread. This comes at a price of foot marks.

Start your troubleshooting by winding a new bobbin load, using the best thread tension to get tight windings. Pull out the misbehaving bobbin and install the new one. If the problem goes away, check the windings on the old bobbin to see if they are cross-wound, or if the starting thread stub is sticking out of a hole or from the windings, causing intermittent binding. Also, check the ends of the bobbin to see if they are bent or otherwise damaged. If there is no improvement with a fresh bobbin, remove the race cover and clean out the surfaces and the shuttle (be careful with the shuttle). It's possible you'll find a thread stub in the race. As a last resort, reverse the direction of feed of the bobbin inside the bobbin case. This will lighten the tension if the thread is feeding inline with the thread slot, instead of against it.

You can call Cobra Steve and ask him for details about how his Cobra 26 will help your business model. Do the same with Techsew. Our sewing machine dealers want to sell the best machine for the job, whatever that might be. This Cobra 26 machine is very new to us. Very few members have one as of now.

You should definitely contact Techsew and see if they will send you a replacement bobbin case tension spring. Techsew is an advertiser here and offers excellent product support.

There are a few walking foot machines that can handle #207 thread and even fewer cylinder arm machines. Many of those machines will prefer to have #138 in the bobbin. A lot depends on the thread itself. Despite the marked size designations, there seems to be a lot of variance in thread diameter, based on my own experience. Some #207 (aka: T210) thread I have is smaller or larger than other spools. Some of the black thread is tough and springy, while others are softer. All of this plays into what a given machine can deal with. Because of these thread based variables, it is best to look for a sewing machine that is definitely built with heavier thread in mind. This leaves out all of the upholstery class walking foot machines. The might sew with #207, but it is a crap shoot. There is one machine that comes to mind that is fully capable of tensioning #207 thread (up to #346) and can be equipped with either a flat or roller foot. That is the Cowboy CB2500. It is a heavy duty bottom feed cylinder arm machine that is a clone of the old Singer 45k series. The bobbins a cylindrical, the parts are massive and it sews up to 7/16 inch out of the box. Check it out.

If there is a Tandy Leather store within driving distance, why not call them to see if they have a Boss stitcher in stock that you can try out? They have everything there in one place: scrap leather, needles, thread, machine. Unless you are able to physically try out a Boss, you won't know if you will get along with it. These machines are tempermental until you learn to operate them. I do know that you can't half cock the lever and expect a good outcome. Personally, I would prefer a rotary wheel than a push lever on a hand driven sewing machine. I remember Bob Kovar, owner of Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines, posting about a Cowboy head that they converted into a hand operated machine. It had a Barney wheel on the flywheel. Let's see here: 18 ounces of leather is equal to 9/32 of an inch. That is well within the capability of any upholstery class, walking foot machine, most of which handle #138 thread. Some newer builds have an extra large hook that allows you to sew with #207 thread (33 pounds test). That is really the minimum size you'd need to securely stitch a holster or strap that's 18 ounces thick. The Cowboy CB341 and Cobra Model 26 can do that. So can a GA5 type machine, like the Cowboy CB2500 and Techsew 3650. I'm sure someone could add a Barney handle to one of those machines so you can hand crank it.

You're correct; there are only a few hand operated real leather sewing machines. I'll list a few and others will add to the group. Hand operated heavy leather stitchers. The Tippmann Boss (one of our advertisers). This machine has a push pull lever on the right side. It uses the same large cylindrical bobbins and long needles as the 441 type machines and can sew up to 3/4 inch of leather. Everything depends on how strong your right arm is and how long it can operate the lever. You can buy directly from Tippmann and get factory support, or buy it from Tandy Leather stores. The Cowboy Outlaw is a brand new clone of the Tippmann Boss, made in China by CowboySew. It uses the same bobbins and needles as the Boss, but has beefed up cranks, frame and bearings. I don't know anything else about it right now. I'll add the expected price when I learn it. Somebody has converted a Cowboy CB3200 into a hand operated stitcher by adding a Barney handle to the flywheel. I'll bet that Toledo Industrial can do the same for you. This machines sews up to 1" of leather. The Luberto Cub is a rotary hand cranked heavy stitcher that also has a Barney wheel on the flywheel. It also uses 441 type needles and bobbins. They are few and far between and are built in the USA by Tony Luberto. The Gritzner/Frobana curved needle sole stitcher has a rotary wheel on the right side. It has a blade ion the bottom that cuts a sewing channel and moves the work. Junker and Ruh sole stitchers have a push pull lever and sew along the edge.

When I got into leather work and started getting orders, I decided to leap into machine sewing over hand sewing. I got scammed time after time by dealers who knew little or nothing about sewing vegetable tanned leather projects (e.g., holsters, sheathes, Police gear). By the time I found a truly capable "harness" stitcher, I had acquired 6 under-performing industrial machines. The first sad machine was a Singer 96k40, which is similar to the 31 series everybody is asking me about. That machine was sold as a real leather sewing machine. It had a green top wooden table, 1/2 hp clutch motor and steel k-legs frame. What was sad about the machine was that it was just a cloth garment sewing machine. I bought every type of foot and feed dog/throat plate set, including a full roller foot conversion. I timed, clkearanced and retimed. I tried longer needles, bent the shuttle driver, stood on my head and did cartwheels in front of the G-damn p.o.s. Despite pouring hundreds of dollars into the iron body machine, it could barely sew a little over 3/16" of soft leather. I used the roller foot to sew a leather vest made from a Tandy pattern pack. I went through a pack of 10 needles in the process. This was done using #69 bonded thread, which was the largest thread it would clear in the bobbin and shuttle. Fast forward to here and now and people still think they can use garment quality machines to sew holsters. So sad. All of the experience that has been shared on this forum over the years has fallen on blind eyes and deaf ears. This is a leather sewing machine Here is a similar real leather sewing machine This is a real leather sewing machine from the turn of the 20th Century, and still made today. Here is one of the finest leather sewing machines you will ever see or read about! This heavy duty machine is popular with people sewing leather straps where big tooth marks on the bottom aren't a problem This is NOT a leather sewing machine ! It is meant to sew cloth garments. This is a tailoring machine, as I learned.

Despite the cast iron frame and steel shafts, that 15 class is just a domestic sewing machine. As such, it is limited to a maximum thread size of #69 bonded nylon (11 pound test), using a tiny #18 needle. This thread can barely hold a zipper on a vest. Putting a real gun into a holster sewn with such thin thread will cause the stitches to come apart! The proper thread size for a stack of 3 pieces of 6 ounce leather would be #277, which is 4 times the diameter of what a 15 class can handle. This thread is rated at 44 pounds strength per lockstitch. The needle used to sew with #277 thread is a size 25/200, which resembles a roofing nail. The machines used to sew real holsters and sheathes, plus dog collars and horse tack are huge Cowboy and Cobra and Techsew branded 441 type machines. The eat 15-91s for lunch and spit out the left overs.

Hide House also carries some very nice upholstery hides, ranging all the way up to 65 square feet! They are flat rate priced, between $255 and $420.

Tandy sells most of their leather at a flat price, until you get into the top of the line brands. It is possible to go to a Tandy store, hand pick, and score an excellent deal on just about any common type of leather. But, I wouldn't order leather from them sight unseen if appearance and dimensions are critical. Tandy currently lists large black Zora upholstery hides at $199.99 flat rate (plus gas or shipping and State tax) for up to 50 sq feet. Otherwise, if ordering upholstery hides online, or over the phone, only deal with somebody who is willing to actually look over the hides before shipping them to you.