Wizcrafts

A few months ago I was sewing together an ammo pouch. It consisted of 3 layers of 6-7 ounce veg-tan leather. My CB4500 sewed flawlessly until I rounded the last corner and headed into the stretch. With Cabbage in the head, bubblegum stitcking to the railing and toiletpaper wiping up the rear, Feedlebaum moved up and broke my #25 needle. Then another, then another! The 2 inches remaining had to be hand sewn using an awl and barbed needle. I concluded that there was rawhide inside the filler between the layers, on the problem run. Rawhide will do it to ya every time. If I had know it was in there I would have sewn the pouch at home, on my Union Lockstitch machine.

If that doesn't do it, move up to a #23 needle.

It needs harness feet and a smooth feed dog, plus an edge guide to become a (veg-tan) leather stitcher. This Juki has the wrong presser feet for most leather work.

The Techsew 2700 is a good machine for light and medium duty leather sewing. It has a 10.5 inch cylinder arm. It will sew from 1/32 inch (2 oz), with #46 thread, up to 3/8 inch (20 oz), with #138 thread, top and bottom. It can handle #207 thread on top and #138 on the bottom. Needles are readily available from tiny sizes, like #10 or 12, all the way up to #25, in leather points of various geometries. There are dozens of miscellaneous presser feet that fit the machine. Help is a phone call away, during business hours, from Ronny, at Techsew. I can't imagine where you were going to buy a Juki 441 for the same price as a Techsew 2700. The Juki TSC-441 typically lists for over $5000. If you bought one at half price it would be in the vicinity of $2500. I believe that in stock configuration, the TSC-441 has a 12 inch arm, but I might be mistaken. The Toro 3000 is a 9 inch cylinder arm, heavy leather stitcher. It is best used with thread sizes starting with #138 and going up. It should be able to sew into about 4 to 6 ounces of leather, or up to 7/8 inch. It uses system 7x3 regular point, or 794 leather point needles. I think they sell for $2,000, or so.

I don't know what they sold for new, but my best guess would be around $1400 tops. You can buy a brand new Cowboy CB2500, with a U shaped table and a new servo motor, for about $1000 without reverse, or $1300 with reverse, plus a couple hundred for shipping from Ohio (or gas to pick it up). The motor will have a metal plate on it stating whether it runs on 110 or 220. You can buy a new plug at a hardware store. Why doesn't the seller replace the plug and show you if the motor runs? If you aren't shown a working motor, assume it is shot and will need replacing with a new (preferably servo) motor and matching v-belt. If the motor does require 220 volts, do you have it available in your shop? If not, add the cost of running a 220 line and socket. The only thing that might make this a great deal would be if a ton of needles, bobbins, thread, etc, was thrown in. You would get really lucky if the only thing the motor needed was a new plug and it runs on 110.

Yer puttin me on the spot Pilgrim. Okay. I have been there and done that. I tried working my way up to the best sewing machine for the money and blew a small fortune doing so. Here is my advice: Buy the best machine you can afford, even if you have to lease it. You left out one of the best currently available 441 clones on the market: The cowboy brand CB3500, 4500 and 5500. The 3500 has a 9" arm, like the Artisan 3000, but is made at the best quality factory in China.I own the next model up: the CB4500. I use this machine every day to sew everything from jeans cuffs. to handles on purses, to zippers, to belts, to holsters, etc. I used it today to sew across the back of a shoe where the material had come loose on the inside. There is little this machine cannot handle. If you aren't interested in the Cowboy brand machines for some reason, the Techsew 2700 would be a good starters' machine. It is a light duty, walking foot sewing machine. While it may be technically able to handle #207 thread, it won't be pretty. The pressure required to hold down the leather may be more than the pressure spring can apply. In contrast, my CB4500 can sew from 6 ounces up, depending on what size thread and needle I use. With a #19 needle, it sews thin garment leather or jeans, with #92 thread. Plop in a #22 or #23 needle and it sews with #138 thread. Move up to a #24 and it sews #207. Ramp it up a notch to a #25 and it sews #277 thread, top and bottom. This is not the end of the line either. It can sew with #415 thread, using a #27 needle! Did I mention is can sew as long as 2 or 3 stitches per inch? This is with either the smooth feed dog, or no feed dog at all. I prefer no feed dog for my work. Some like it the other way. If you are going to only sew thin or soft leather, a 227 type machine is adequate. But, once you start playing with the big dogs, a real leather stitcher is needed. That is a 441 clone, or an Adler 205-374, Union Lockstitch, or Campbell-Randall.

I have a National walking foot machine, which is very similar to both the Chandler 406 and Consew 206. It even uses the Consew M bobbins and cases. I paid for it sewing rifle slings and guitar straps, ranging from 8 ounces to 20 ounces thick, with #138 bonded nylon thread. It easily sews 3/8 inch, at slow speeds. It will sew with #207, but the pressure on the feet must be cranked up a lot. Whichever machine you buy, get a servo motor with or for it. I recommend one with a front knob speed limiter, 3/4 HP and a 70mm pulley for your intended usage. Or, get a servo with a 50mm pulley and about 1/2 HP rating. The Toledo Sew Slow is rated at 300 watts, but has built in 3:1 gear reduction for higher torque (but slower top speed). Prices for such motors range from about $105 to $175.

Is it a Neel's Model 5, black body cylinder arm machine? If so, it is probably the forerunner of the Cowboy CB2500, which is a bottom fed, static needle machine. It should make a good tack and animal collar sewing machine, where the marks on the bottom are not so important. It can handle thick thread, with the proper needle and sew up to 7/16 inch of leather. Loops under the leather can be caused by improper threading on top, thread not fully seated inside the top tension butterflies, Too much bobbin case tension, or too small a needle for the thread. Missed stitches would be caused by insufficient pressure on the foot, allowing the leather to lift with the needle. If the motor is unusable, it can be replaced for under $200 with a servo motor. I am not sure if that machine has reverse sewing or not. Ask the seller.

If If you grind down the teeth on the feeder, what is left to move your leather: osmosis? This is a bottom feeder only and it needs those teeth to move the material. The roller foot on top is there to prevent the top layer from being dragged out of alignment with the bottom layer. A flat presser foot can cause this misalignment, especially when you crank down the pressure spring to prevent the leather from lifting with the needle.

Tostrap; You may want to look at the Cowboy CB2500 machine. It is probably within your budget and can sew with heavy thread into about 7/16 inch of veg-tan leather. Techsew also sells a similar machine. They are based on the design of the ancient Singer 45k cylinder arm machines, being bottom feeders. There is a roller foot available for the CB2500, which allows it to feed multiple layers better. You need a lot of top spring pressure to hold down 7/16 inch of hard leather. This makes it more like the Singer 45k25, which had a roller foot (I had one for a while).

A number 21 needle will only pass #105 thread, which is an odd size. You might be able to squeeze #138 through the eye, if it is tightly bonded. This is not what leather sewers consider as large thread. #138 is upholstery grade thread, or can be used to assemble wallet backs to interiors, or chaps, or leather jackets. It has 22 pounds breaking strength.

Tom; If I could edit your post I would. You need to remove your email address from your last replay. Think about email security and spammers trolling forums for fresh meat.

I have played around with the height of my Cowboy stitcher and finally settled on where I can sit on a bar stool and still reach the pedals. This lets me look down on the throat plate while seated. I did try eye level, but it was too uncomfortable.

Happy New Year Tor! and everybody else!!!

I always wanted to have a Luberto Classic, but couldn't afford it. The Union Lockstitch fell out of heaven and into my expando. But, if I could really have any machine I dreamed of, it would be a Campbell High Lift. Period.

I have. My Union Lockstitch machine is square feed, jump foot and needle feed. It is now made and serviced by Campbell-Bosworth, in Yoakum, Texas.

Others have gone that path and regretted it. Unless you or your Husband are already familiar with how industrial sewing machine tables are assembled and fitted to the machine head, don't go there. For the couple hundred more you spend on the table and motor, you could have simply bought a fully assembled, tested and setup Consew 206RB-5 from here.

That Jacks motor looks good in the video demonstration. It has all kinds of slow and fast speed control. I think it will allow you to sew very slowly if you want to, by backing off the floor pedal with your heel.

That is not a leather sewing machine. You may destroy it if you force it to sew through dense leather, of any weight.

Hold out for a newer walking foot machine, or an actual leather sewing machine. I have a huge Cowboy CB4500 leather stitcher that can sew over 3/4 inch of leather on holsters, with up to #415 thread. But, the last job I sewed on it I did with #92 thread, on a leather vest, applying patches. Before that I used it to sew a new pocket onto a pair of jeans. I routinely use it to edge stitch bridle leather belts, with #277 thread on top and #207 in the bobbin. My walking foot machine can sew with #138 thread on belts, vests and jeans, but can't sew holsters with 1/2 inch of welt between the layers, or sew anything with #277 thread.

The Juki 553 is a forward only (no reverse), straight stitch, bottom feed machine. It is capable of sewing suede or other soft leather, probably up to about 3/16 inch thickness. This would be with a #18 needle and #69 bonded nylon thread. You may have to convert it into a roller foot machine to feed two or more layers and keep them aligned. You will not have much luck sewing belts on this type of machine. It is a tailoring machine.

I also used to sew on an Adler long arm big bobbin patcher and it would give 5 to the inch into any thickness it could clear, with #138 thread, top and bottom.

I have type 7x3 needles in numbers 18 through 22 and type 794 in numbers 23 through 27. These needles fit a 441 or clone, or an Adler class 204 or 205. They cover thread sizes ranging from #69 through #415.

The 29-4 should be able to sew through your 9-10 ounce package, but the stitch length may be shorter than you want, depending on how loose the feed mechanism is. Set the stitch length adjuster all the way down, with the presser foot manually lifted with its lift lever. This will yield the longest stitch that machine can deliver. Also, loosen and slide the movable raise block on the leaf spring to the right, until it stops at the notch in the leaf spring. This increases the lift of the foot as it operates, which gives it a better chance at a longer stitch. Make sure the foot is securely screwed onto the presser bar.

The needle should not hit either foot. It should go through the center of the inside foot. The toe or toes of the outside foot should be aligned to face straight ahead, not hitting the inside foot. If the feet are properly aligned, but the needle is able to make contact with the side of one or both feet, either the needle bar has come out of position (at the top of the pendulum), or the needle itself is bent.