ClayB

This stuff you are making is WAY COOL!! By the way it fits, you really must know what you are doing. It all looks great. Wonder how it would go with my cowboy hat?? Thanks for sharing the pictures. Hope there are more to come. Clay

I kind of like the idea of an online leather store. For those of us that don't have a store front, or a website, and just dont like the idea of being a saleman at all, it would be nice to have a place to try and sell the stuff we make. There used to be a place called the Leather Maul that tried to do that, but it's no longer around. When I have spare time, I like to carve. I dont want to be a salesman, and I am tired of hearing "OMG, you want how much?" I'd much rather pay a commission to someone else than to deal with people like that. Clay

Hi Don, The tree used was an old time slick fork by Bowden http://www.saddletree.com/saddletree1.html I dont know how historically correct it is, but it worked for what we were trying to do. On a completly different subject, do you have the book The 101 Ranch by Ellsworth Collings and Alma Miller England? I lived in Ponca City, Ok for a few years when I was a kid near where the ranch was. The first rodeo I ever saw was at an arena that I think was called the 101 Ranch Arena. Anyway, I have had this book forever and if you dont have it and are interested, let me know. Clay

Hi Charley, I'm really glad you decided to post the pictures of your snake here. You already know that I like it (or I wouldn't have tried to get you to post it here) I cant wait to see what this project looks like when it is all finished. Hope you decide to post more pictures of your work. I have only seen a couple of your projects, but I like the ones I have seen a lot. Your coloring job is really impressive! Clay

One thing about Saddle Lac or Neat Lac is that the finish is going to be pretty glossy. If that is the look you are going for that might work. If it isn't, I would suggest one of the spray acrylic sealers with a matte finish. And like Alex said, try them all out on scrap first so you aren't "surprised" on your finished project. Clay

Hi John, There are different things used to do lifting. The pro petal is being discussed in another thread here on the forum. There are also stamping tools that are called lifters. Here are a couple pictures that show some. In the top picture, the top tool is a Craftool undercut beveler. The second is a Barry King petal lifter and the black tool is a Bob Beard version. Barry's tool kind of pushes up the leather making a ridge, where Bob's actually cuts deep into the leather and all the way into your marble underneath if you aren't careful. Doesn't seem to hurt the tool any and they are guaranteed. The Craftool version is sort of in between. It also has a more square face so it doesn't fit as well into the curved parts of leaves. This picture shows a bottom veiw of the tools. Here is a picture of several different pro petal tools. Hope that helps. Clay

The pro petal tools that Jeff makes are probably all smaller than the smallest one Tandy or Hidecrafter carries/carried. His come in 4 sizes and are shaped a little different so that the heel doesn't drag when you are cutting in with them. They are sharp when you get them. The ones he has now are hardened too. Mine weren't, and when I used them for certain things they probably weren't meant to be used for they would bend. They shouldn't any more. Jeff is a really nice guy. He does a lot of custom guitar work along with teaching, carving, and custom maker stamps etc. I think he said he might even be playing guitar again. I don't think he would ignore you on purpose Wolvenstien. You might try calling him as he could possibly be traveling somewhere and not getting his email. Clay

The only place that I know of where you can get a set of different sizes of pro petal tools is from Jeff Mosby at Grey Ghost Graphics. You can see his brochure at http://www.greyghostgraphics.com/Brochure.pdf The pro petal tools are towards the bottom of the page. You should be able to get a pro petal tool from either Tandy or Hidecrafter also, but I think they only make one or two sizes, both fairly large. Clay

[quote I would like to expand the answers in this section without taking away from your question. I am curious how many makers prestretch the leathers (and how) before construction. I have been shown to get them sloppy wet, nail one end to a board and lever the stretch out with spikes and tack the other end and let dry. I have been shown to case the leathers and roll them back upon themselves in both directions to take stretch out. Then there is the dampen and turn the bottoms only on either the tree or a stirrup stretcher. Bruce Johnson I was taught to soak them, nail one end to the floor joists on the basement ceiling, and hang something heavy, like a cinder block from the other end until they dry. Clay

It was a little difficult to answer the poll questions the way they were written. I have made 5, more than one but not more than 5. I have also been making them for more than one year, but not more than 5. I had wanted to try building a saddle, just to see how it was done and ended up meeting a local saddle maker that was willing to help me out. He also got me involved in an apprenticeship program through the ND Council for the Arts that paid for materials and the teachers time. I built 2 saddles through that program and 3 more mostly on my own, but with his help when I ran into troubles. I dont think I would ever want to be a full time saddlemaker. The carving part of leatherwork is what I like most and most people around here want their saddles pretty plain. But I do think I will make a few more now and then and I like reading about how everyone else does things. There is SO much more to learn. Clay

I wish I had time to more of these. If any of you get something out of them, it makes it worth it. The round tool I used to cut the teeth loose is a pro petal tool. You can get them from Tandy or Hidecrafter or other places. The ones I use most are from Jeff Mosby. http://www.greyghostgraphics.com/Brochure.pdf He makes them in 4 sizes and they come really sharp and have the right shape to the tip to allow them to work better. The main purpose of a pro petal is to give more depth to floral carving, but I learned from Jan Schoonover that you can cut layers of leather loose with them better than with a scalpel. If you want to know more about any of the other tools, let me know and I will try and give you the details. Clay

I have built a few saddes with the help of a couple local saddlemakers, but don't consider myself a saddle maker. One of the things I find most confusing/intimidating is how you choose the right tree. I took Pete Gorrell's saddle fit workshop a couple years ago, and in it he told us what to look for, and put several trees on a horse to show which fit and which didn't. Thing is, most people getting started aren't going to have several trees sitting around to try on a horse. What you are talking about seems like it would be such a useful tool especially for people starting out to learn more about what works and why when it comes to fitting a horse. I hope this project goes forward and something useful comes out of it. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you Rod and Denise for being part of this forum and helping to make some sense out of a complicated topic. Clay

I used to use a rawhide mallet for years. For some reason, it started leaving "dandruff" flakes all over the place. I decided to give a maul a try. Seemed like a lot of people were using them and liked them. Seemed like it would be hard to get used to hitting a stamping tool with a round surface, but it wasn't at all for me. I have a Barry King maul, and it has nice balance and from the first time I tried it, I liked it. A friend of mine brought over one of Barry's mallets and I tried that. I found it harder to hold straight and hit a tool with than the maul. Maybe just because I was used to the maul? I don't really know. I also have tried one of Bob Beard's mauls. You cant get these anymore so it probably doesn't matter, but lots of people that have them swear by them. I liked Barry's better. I guess it's like a lot of things, if you get a chance, try several and see what you like. My maul also started leaving small white flakes once in awhile too, so I guess that it's not just rawhide that does that. It's not a big problem if you blow the flakes off before you beat them into the leather. I still use a weighted rawhide mallet with strap end punches etc. I have a couple poly mallets too, but to me, they don't seem to have any balance, or weight for the size of them. Just my opinion. Clay

Verlane's classes are the only college classes I've heard of except the boot & saddle courses which were an experiment in Oklahoma? at a college and no, I son't remember the name. Late nineties? Am I ringing any bells? I can't remember the name of the school, but it seems to me the certification died out not for lack of interest, but for the high tuition fees. (Please someone correct me or fill in the blanks if you remember what I am referring to!) Unfortunately, Spokane Community College discontinued the class that Verlane was teaching a couple years ago. There is still a school going in Oklahoma. From their website, http://www.bootandsaddle.net/ Green Country Technology Center 1100 North Loop 56, Okmulgee, OK 74447 Green Country Technology Center "In August 2005 the Boot & Saddle Program at OSU Okmulgee was transferred to Green Country Technology Center at Okmulgee, Oklahoma. The next Boot and Saddle classes started in August, 2006 and are taking place in the newly completed Boot & Saddle building on the Green Country Technology Center Campus. " I think I heard that now you have to take both the boot and saddlemaking classes if you enroll which seems silly. I have friend that runs a store in Bismarck, ND that took the saddle making class back in the 80's (I think) and her brother took the boot making classes. He is still making boots, but she got burned out making saddles. She still does repair work and does a lot of leather art pictures. There are some good classes on specific subjects offered at the trade shows and the IFoLG show. I don't think any of the people that teach these classes are getting rich, but do it to pass on what they have learned. There seem to be more and more classes offered each year geared towards saddle making. If there are specific subjects you would like to learn, you need to let the people that run the shows know. Clay

Hi Jim, I know where you are coming from. I am hardly ever completly happy with anything I do and probably never will be. I think that's how we improve. But, most other people aren't ever going to notice what you see as a blaring mistake. I had to look a long time before I could see anything very wrong, and am still not sure if it is what you are refering too. If you wouldn't have said there was a problem with it, I would never have looked that hard. I think we have to do like Major said, and if the customer is happy, let it go. You still learned something, and you wont make that mistake again. Your next project will be better because of it. Bruce gave some really good advice awhile back (might have been somewhere other than this forum) about critiquing your own work. Something about finding 2-3 things you like in each project, and 2-3 things you would like to improve on. Maybe he can post that here as I thought it was really well stated and I have been trying to follow it. Thanks for sharing the picture Jim, even if you aren't happy with it. I like the pattern and I think you did a nice job with it. Clay

Hey Bruce, Hope you have a really great day today! Hope you have a great day everyday, but especially since it's your birthday. If you weren't so dang far away I'd come over and sing for you, and even bring you a doughnut! Hi to Rundi too! Clay

I got this flyer from Jim Linnell for an upcoming class in Little Rock, Arkansas and thought I would pass it on to anyone that might be able to make the class. This is a great project, and I bet learning it from Jim would be a lot of fun. The price is right too! Hope some of you can make it.

I think you it is best to try some different knives out too. The one I use the most is the old Tandy Pro knive Bruce mentioned. It is big and heavy and just feels right to me. A couple years ago I bought a short, thin barreled knife from Barry King. Short because I have small hands, thin because I thought I could make tighter turns with it. I don't like the thin barrel much at all. I am on Bob Beards list for one of his knives next time he makes some. I think it will be a short, fat barrel. Like Darc said about the old smootie, the yoke in Bob's knives will spin for 10 minutes. Not sure how much advantage that makes in cutting, but it is fun to do. The thing that might make more of a difference than getting a different knife is getting a better blade. I bought a couple blades from Bob in Sheridan, and I noticed right away that my decorative cuts are way better. If you cant try out the knives, at least talk to the people that make them, tell them what you are going to do with them and see what they suggest. Some of the custom made knives are fairly expensive and you don't want to buy one that you aren't going to like. Barry's on the other hand are fairly reasonably priced. Clay

I don't know Dave, are ya sure a hand carved seat is going to look better than white paint on the tires???When I read all the stuff you were supposed to write on it, it seemed like just that would take up the whole seat, but once again, I am impressed! You did a great job of putting it all together. I'm sure we will get to see it finished, right? ClayB

Hey, I apologize about the doughnuts. It's 40 miles one way to the doughnut shop and sometimes I oversleep. The reason half of them are gone is because I just cant resist those little sprinkly things on the top. I been letting my dog have the ones I lick the sprinkles off, but hey, if you need a doughnut that bad and dont mind a little slobber, the dog can go back to Old Roy and you guys can fight over the rest of the doughnuts. I'm glad you are all here sharing info and pictures and asking questions too. I never imagined this thing would grow this fast and it hasnt even been a year yet. I've learned a lot, and am looking forward to learning a lot more. Maybe I can talk the wife into letting me get the doughnuts with the Honda, and I can stick them in the trunk for their own protection.

Here are a few of my favorite saddles from past trips to Sheridan. I think the first ones are of the Don King saddle that was mentioned. Since I lean more towards figure carving, this one carved by Jim Jackson has always been one of my favorites. I think Jim did the carving and one of the King boys built the saddle if I remember right. It was on display in King's museum for a few years. All I can find of Don Butler's work is parts of a saddle he had at the first saddle week in Sheridan. This is Keith Siedel's personal saddle. And I think this one is from Rick Bean?

I hope that you all have seen the calendar section towards the bottom of the main page. I have tried to keep it up to date with as many classes as I hear about. If there are other classes that anyone hears about, please post them there too. Classes are a great way to improve your skills, learn new techniques, and meet new friends. Some people are intimidated about taking a class from some of the world class teachers. You shouldn't be. I have been in a lot of classes where at least one student hadn't ever done leather work before, and ended up with a nice project at the end. I think seeing something done sometimes really helps us understand techniques that we have a hard time grasping otherwise. So, check the calendar out to see if there is something coming up near you, and if there is something you know about that isn't on there, feel free to add it. Clay

The name on the card in front of it says Wolfgang Fey. Haven't heard the name before. It was a favorite of a lot of people, including me. Clay