JLSleather

That's not bad -- 10 for $43 each.

Agreed People were making quality leather long before I was born, and likely will continue after I'm gone. Just so I've said it, when I referred to "name dropping", I wasn't referring to you. But, I'm not intending any offense or taking any. Nothing on this site worth all that anyway. I do / did try to be of some use to the 'new guy', but honestly I don't gain or lose anything by doing it, or feel the obligation to do it.

That's funny! I have always made holsters based on what I like (barring specific requests). Never give much thought to what somebody else is doing - -don't really care. But, so much went on about some "big names", that I checked. And the funny part? At least one of the "names" people seem to like to throw around to 'justify' simple holsters... DelFatty actually states (on that site) " might find that the wings bind the weapon because they are pulled in to the waist so abruptly. " That's worth one more of these

I don't count "numbers" as equals skill or value. I see thousands of junk projects sold every day. The pet rock sold like 6 MILLION copies, and then there was an "imitation" pet rock... and then a couple years later they were re-introduced and advertised as the "original" pet rock. Millions sold, but it was a rock in a box. With "air holes" for the rock. That people were ignorant enough to buy them (often because the neighbor did, so I should too)... did not make them any "better" I doubt that anyone here makes anywhere near as much money as Spongebob Squarepants. So, is he smarter than us? Maybe more talented? I make a joke of it, but the idea is quite real. Really, it's good sometimes to differentiate between facts and "marketing" spiel. I read somewhere once that Bianchi "invented" some 30,000 holsters. But a quick glance showed that one "design" was a simple fold-over taco thing, sewn up the seam. Then another was teh same holster, but they added a hammer strap. And a third "design" was teh same holster with a trigger strap... etc.. Nothing against Bianchi or anyone who works with/for them -- but I'm not maybe as susceptible to advertising as some others. Adding or mentioning somebody's name to make something seem more legitimate just doesnt' work on me - means nothing. I've made a couple holsters over the years. And out of a bazillion (well, quite a few to some ) I've had this "issue" exactly twice. Each time, they asked for that '50/50' thing, and when they got binding I made them a replacement which was nearly flat in the back, which solved the issue completely. I agree that it doesn't need to be a 'debate'. Each his own.

Sam did a great job on that video -- it's the ONLY one I recommend to people wanting to make holsters. Dialing it back just a tad --- Sam seems like a friendly, knowledgeable fella, but he didn't invent this Josh, looks like you got some pretty good mileage.

Moreover.. how did you manage to go 40 years of leather without trying the HO?

Yeah, with ya. I've always said.. We do not make holsters in 'medium' or 'large'. If it fits many guns, then it fits none (a pail will hold your pistol, but doesn't FIT it). One fella showed up, said he wanted a holster that would fit gunA AND gunB... so I handed him a plastic walmart bag that was laying there.

Well, yeah..that IS teh short version. When I make a "pattern", what I'm actually making is the STITCH ALLOWANCE, which can then be used to make a multitude of holster styles from that one "design".

AND, aguycould take that same basic "50/50" pancake, CUT IT on the front stitch line, and hold it up to a mirror, turning it into a basic "avenger" style holster for the same gun. http://www.jlsleather.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/AvengerLayout.pdf

That JLS guy aint that bright, I think! Original idea is, those patterns would work 'as is', but are intended to be a 'base line' for folks customizing their own. I can't remember how many times I've seen listings for "custom" holsters, made with that guy's patterns. TIP: If 100 of us use the same leather and the same pattern to make a holster for the same gun, it's no longer "custom"! BUT if a guy was to see that a pattern gave a stitch "allowance", then he/she could put that amount into the holster whereever they want it to "suit". I thought that long conversation about HOW they are made laid that out? Perhaps simpler version... say a guy making hisself a belt.. outa multiple pieces. If you measure 38 around, then a guy could do that with two 19". Or, a guy could use a 24 and a 14 ... etc... and still add up to something that fits snugly.. just change where the seam is. MUCH the same way, aguycould take a "50/50" pancake, cut out tehtop of the front "wing", and quickly turn it into a basic IWB by adding loops.

Exactly my point. This right here.

If teh front is "longer" (or wider, depending on how you view it) then it should "mold more of the firearm". But this is the trouble... the inside now has nowhere to go, and compresses. Like any other "path of least resistance" situation, the leather will "smoosh" into teh open space (spelled s i t e c h a n n e l) before it will compress fibers.

Won't that make it loose? I mean, if it fits, and then you add, that sounds like "loose" BUT, if a guy added to the front, and took from teh back, the same amount.... see kin i find a picture... or make one

See, now yer on to sumthin' there. If it's already curved, then curving it won't harm nuthin' - that is the idea. This can be done by moving teh slots out wider from the firearm (the most common, I think), or better yet by shortening the inside panel so you don't get that 'buckle', or by lengthening the outside panel so it 'forms', instead of "crushes"..

Up front -- I do pay attention when Josh posts something. I got no problem standin' in the middle of main street and telling folks if you need some well-made leather, you might call Josh (which I have done as recently as last week). Never met the guy --- this is BECAUSE OF THE WORK he presents. Now to include the comments here from Josh AND from Duane... it's true that leather has a 'stretch-ability'. Obviously. And some forming of the leather in the making is kinda the point of holster making. In fact, if you make the holster tight, and then form (stretch) it around (so that the front and channel area is the part doing the stretching) then you are - of a sort - making a holster slightly longer on the "face" side (by stretching the outer but not the inner). But the bind I'm referring to comes more from the leather's tendency not to contract back. I mean, if it 'came back' then there'd be no reason for it to get loose and need replacing The point here, before it became a crazed rant (somehow ) was to say that a "pancake" holster (what I sometimes call a '50/50') does not fit a small guy and a big guy the same way - and a dowel shoved down the front won't change that. Somebody probably busy laying out [yet another] video about this by now . But the idea is a simple one. Take a belt, or anything else with two layers of leather. Bend it 20° -- no problem. Bend it 45°, now it's wrinkling on the inside (the outside is stretching).. because the leather is being compressed and has nowhere to go (the outside layer prevents it from moving out of the way of the force). Now, when you bend it back the other way to straight, the grain is disturbed on the OUTside, because it's now been stretched longer than before (not so good at "snapping back"). This may be a better pic. This was made for a Glock 43.. fit a guy with a 38" waist like a glove. But when the guy with the 30" waist used it... ya git this here... This obviously had been made with a "sight channel", but when 'cranked' on a slim boy's waist, the channel collapsed on teh site, actually causing the problem it was intended to solve. Again, it fit his buddy (38") just fine.

Did we not like this one? http://multimoldguns.com/pro.htm OOOPS.. that's teh 9m

When making 'pancake" holsters with seam down the front, adding a 'panel' on the front does nothing to help with this. The thing is, you can pull it (stretch it) from slot to slot much as you like, and there's no problem. But when you start curving it (like when you tighten the belt) then this "molding in the back" becomes compressed (has to go somewhere). Since the front is pulled tighter on the belt, the inside can't bow out, then the only place the back can go is INTO the site channel (closing it). If on the other hand, you make the holster with a flatter back (longer piece in front) much of this is eliminated (there's less leather to bunch up in the channel). So, ideally, make the outside piece longer, and THEN reinforce it, so that the original curve is maintained... and the tension in the firearm is then the same on or off the belt (or way close). Lots of people would like to ignore this, since it does make it a bit more involved making the pattern. You are correct that a sewn in sight channel would "fix" that, provided you have room to do that. Most of the time, the response is to move the belt slots further out from the firearm (farther apart from each other) so the inward flex stress is less. But then, you trade some room on your belt and some concealment.

No. It is teh molded site channel which collapses, causing the bind. The further you bend the front in, the more the bind. But this is not a problem with ANY pancake holster, ... not an issue at all if teh back is flat, or close to flat.

No - not necessarily. Belly leather certainly gets 10+ thick.

I've never seen a piece from W/C that looked like that on the flesh side. I'm assuming that in the interest of getting you a piece to see, they clicked off a piece which was not split (leveled). But then, the A / B grade leather I get from HO looks nicer on the flesh side than your pic as well Personally, I wouldn't have sent that piece to a potential customer as an example, but honestly I wouldn't worry about it.

Quick pic of teh problem here. When the holster lays flat, or held in the hand, slips in and out just fine. But the harder the front 'wing' is cranked in, the more the site channel collapses, causing front site drag. "Breaking it in" only serve to make the problem worse. The pic above illustrates what is happening when the holster is curved to fit the waist. The smaller the waist, the tighter the radius, and the more bow in the holster. And the more site drag. Looking down on a G43, right hand holster.

I like W/C leather. But not everything they sent me has been wonderful H.O. the only place has never sent me a piece I didn't like. No, wait -- and Goliger leather, too -- but the price is considerably higher than at HO

tough to beat that for $20... For that price ... worth getting it "just in case"

I haven't seen the 2017 pdf (still got the old version). But as for "free shipping", maybe see that other thread about this. If you're buying ONE gun, not a big difference one place to the next. Buying more than one- that "freee" shipping begins to stick it to a guy

kick this to the front lines again. I been gittin lots of questions about EXACTLY this type of thing... like as in a '50/50' pancake holster does not fit the same way (or FUNCTION the same) on a 100-lb guy as it does on a 250-lb guy. So, I'll do a complete work-up (write up) on why this is, but honestly it's not that technical and that pic should point to the issue for people who have seen this issue.