JLSleather

That JLS guy aint that bright, I think! Original idea is, those patterns would work 'as is', but are intended to be a 'base line' for folks customizing their own. I can't remember how many times I've seen listings for "custom" holsters, made with that guy's patterns. TIP: If 100 of us use the same leather and the same pattern to make a holster for the same gun, it's no longer "custom"! BUT if a guy was to see that a pattern gave a stitch "allowance", then he/she could put that amount into the holster whereever they want it to "suit". I thought that long conversation about HOW they are made laid that out? Perhaps simpler version... say a guy making hisself a belt.. outa multiple pieces. If you measure 38 around, then a guy could do that with two 19". Or, a guy could use a 24 and a 14 ... etc... and still add up to something that fits snugly.. just change where the seam is. MUCH the same way, aguycould take a "50/50" pancake, cut out tehtop of the front "wing", and quickly turn it into a basic IWB by adding loops.

Exactly my point. This right here.

If teh front is "longer" (or wider, depending on how you view it) then it should "mold more of the firearm". But this is the trouble... the inside now has nowhere to go, and compresses. Like any other "path of least resistance" situation, the leather will "smoosh" into teh open space (spelled s i t e c h a n n e l) before it will compress fibers.

Won't that make it loose? I mean, if it fits, and then you add, that sounds like "loose" BUT, if a guy added to the front, and took from teh back, the same amount.... see kin i find a picture... or make one

See, now yer on to sumthin' there. If it's already curved, then curving it won't harm nuthin' - that is the idea. This can be done by moving teh slots out wider from the firearm (the most common, I think), or better yet by shortening the inside panel so you don't get that 'buckle', or by lengthening the outside panel so it 'forms', instead of "crushes"..

Up front -- I do pay attention when Josh posts something. I got no problem standin' in the middle of main street and telling folks if you need some well-made leather, you might call Josh (which I have done as recently as last week). Never met the guy --- this is BECAUSE OF THE WORK he presents. Now to include the comments here from Josh AND from Duane... it's true that leather has a 'stretch-ability'. Obviously. And some forming of the leather in the making is kinda the point of holster making. In fact, if you make the holster tight, and then form (stretch) it around (so that the front and channel area is the part doing the stretching) then you are - of a sort - making a holster slightly longer on the "face" side (by stretching the outer but not the inner). But the bind I'm referring to comes more from the leather's tendency not to contract back. I mean, if it 'came back' then there'd be no reason for it to get loose and need replacing The point here, before it became a crazed rant (somehow ) was to say that a "pancake" holster (what I sometimes call a '50/50') does not fit a small guy and a big guy the same way - and a dowel shoved down the front won't change that. Somebody probably busy laying out [yet another] video about this by now . But the idea is a simple one. Take a belt, or anything else with two layers of leather. Bend it 20° -- no problem. Bend it 45°, now it's wrinkling on the inside (the outside is stretching).. because the leather is being compressed and has nowhere to go (the outside layer prevents it from moving out of the way of the force). Now, when you bend it back the other way to straight, the grain is disturbed on the OUTside, because it's now been stretched longer than before (not so good at "snapping back"). This may be a better pic. This was made for a Glock 43.. fit a guy with a 38" waist like a glove. But when the guy with the 30" waist used it... ya git this here... This obviously had been made with a "sight channel", but when 'cranked' on a slim boy's waist, the channel collapsed on teh site, actually causing the problem it was intended to solve. Again, it fit his buddy (38") just fine.

Did we not like this one? http://multimoldguns.com/pro.htm OOOPS.. that's teh 9m

When making 'pancake" holsters with seam down the front, adding a 'panel' on the front does nothing to help with this. The thing is, you can pull it (stretch it) from slot to slot much as you like, and there's no problem. But when you start curving it (like when you tighten the belt) then this "molding in the back" becomes compressed (has to go somewhere). Since the front is pulled tighter on the belt, the inside can't bow out, then the only place the back can go is INTO the site channel (closing it). If on the other hand, you make the holster with a flatter back (longer piece in front) much of this is eliminated (there's less leather to bunch up in the channel). So, ideally, make the outside piece longer, and THEN reinforce it, so that the original curve is maintained... and the tension in the firearm is then the same on or off the belt (or way close). Lots of people would like to ignore this, since it does make it a bit more involved making the pattern. You are correct that a sewn in sight channel would "fix" that, provided you have room to do that. Most of the time, the response is to move the belt slots further out from the firearm (farther apart from each other) so the inward flex stress is less. But then, you trade some room on your belt and some concealment.

No. It is teh molded site channel which collapses, causing the bind. The further you bend the front in, the more the bind. But this is not a problem with ANY pancake holster, ... not an issue at all if teh back is flat, or close to flat.

No - not necessarily. Belly leather certainly gets 10+ thick.

I've never seen a piece from W/C that looked like that on the flesh side. I'm assuming that in the interest of getting you a piece to see, they clicked off a piece which was not split (leveled). But then, the A / B grade leather I get from HO looks nicer on the flesh side than your pic as well Personally, I wouldn't have sent that piece to a potential customer as an example, but honestly I wouldn't worry about it.

Quick pic of teh problem here. When the holster lays flat, or held in the hand, slips in and out just fine. But the harder the front 'wing' is cranked in, the more the site channel collapses, causing front site drag. "Breaking it in" only serve to make the problem worse. The pic above illustrates what is happening when the holster is curved to fit the waist. The smaller the waist, the tighter the radius, and the more bow in the holster. And the more site drag. Looking down on a G43, right hand holster.

I like W/C leather. But not everything they sent me has been wonderful H.O. the only place has never sent me a piece I didn't like. No, wait -- and Goliger leather, too -- but the price is considerably higher than at HO

tough to beat that for $20... For that price ... worth getting it "just in case"

I haven't seen the 2017 pdf (still got the old version). But as for "free shipping", maybe see that other thread about this. If you're buying ONE gun, not a big difference one place to the next. Buying more than one- that "freee" shipping begins to stick it to a guy

kick this to the front lines again. I been gittin lots of questions about EXACTLY this type of thing... like as in a '50/50' pancake holster does not fit the same way (or FUNCTION the same) on a 100-lb guy as it does on a 250-lb guy. So, I'll do a complete work-up (write up) on why this is, but honestly it's not that technical and that pic should point to the issue for people who have seen this issue.

Yeah, I like Rings. Pretty quick most of the time. And I like the aluminum molds from duncans - though they're about the same money ($50+ shipping). But I wouldn't put too much stock in ebay. I just checked -- guns which are $50 (give or take) about everywhere else are listed on ebay for $70 and up. If you're going to check ebay (don't hurt nuthin' to check) I recommend putting "rings" in the search (there are a LOT of "blue guns" which are nowhere near correct size) and then limit the price to max $50. Above $50 you can get them brand new in a number of places, so unless it's one that just simply isn't available ... not smart to pay more for the same thing. And putting $50 in teh max price will save you wading through listings meant for a different kind of 'dummy' The P320 molds I just paid about $50 for -- are $69.99 on ebay. Not good. On the other hand, if you need a mold for a PX4 storm, those are currently available for $20 +shipping.. though, it dont' say if that's the .40 or the .45 (do they make the full size in a 9m?)

Friendly folks and nice leather. What's not to like?!@!

I agree that equal items have equal value. That is my point. But the question was -- how to justify DIFFERENT pricing than someone else's. ANd my point is, if you want a different price, then you need to have a different value. That's because I don't pay more for equal value. And better value is either better materials, or better workmanship, or both. Well, I have never asked anyone in this thread (or others, for that matter) how much they charge or why. Simply put - that's none of my business. One guy charge $10, next guy charge $100 for the same thing. No matter to me. I am always surprised by people who will pay $50 and up for a piece of leather folded over, sewn, and called a wallet. But, long as they aren't spending my money, still not my business When I shop, I compare the ITEM in question. If it isn't better, then I'm not paying more. If it is better, I might pay a bit more. One more example for clarification: Two guys make a holster for the same model, .. from teh same materials, and they are comparable in function and look. I would pay the same for either. from the same materials, but one better work. I'd buy the "nicer" one - even if it was priced a bit higher. 1 guy from leather not as nice, but they both do quality work, I'd buy the "nicer" one - even if it was priced a bit higher. Both same leather, both same okay-ish work, I would pay the same for either. Both same leather, both okay-ish work, both come with a pretty story about how the maker is a disabled / transexual / single parent / ex-cop / veteran / etc...(this is not the whole list, just some of teh more common "lines" I hear). I'll assume there's something about your product you want to distract from.. and I'll buy from some third person who is selling me leather instead of selling me a story.

that's what I said

Yes.

I'm still simple (really -- just ask anyone). I don't pay $100 for a belt. Somebody can tell me stories about how it's 'real' leather, it's laminated, it's hand stitched, uphill both ways.. and that just isn't going to sway me. If there's a guy selling grade A Hermann Oak leather belts, double layer and double stitched, for $70 -- then what will you tell me to suggest that I pay more? If I pay more for something, it's because either it's something I can't get somewhere else, or it's BETTER. Because something is 'handmade' does not make it better. Putting a higher price tag on it does not make it better. Taking longer to do it does not make it better. Adding a video and a blog about it does not make it better. I could go on, but in the end it's simple. If you hope to charge me more, then tell me how it's BETTER. Oh, and I might just walk away from someone who started about how many hours they have in it. Who cares, anyway? Example: Guy1 and Guy 2 both use A-grade leather, the same dyes/glue/thread, all the same materials. The belts look very much alike. Both guys want $30 per hour. Guy1 cut his leather with a 7' straight edge, then used a strap cutter to cut the belt strips, then marked out the tip and buckle ends with a stylus, trimmed and punched with tools and a mallet. This portion of one belt took an hour. Guy2 ran a back through a strap cutter, making 18 strips. Then he clicked the ends of the straps. This portion took an hour. For 9 belts. Both belts are the same materials, had the same things done to them. WHY would I pay more because Guy1 took longer? I've actually seen videos where guys show how SLOW they can go with their sewing machine. Seriously.. anybody ever try that at a job interview? 'Why should we pay you $30 per hour?' "Well, cuz I'm really, really slow!'

Yeah, SLC has sent some REALLY rough leather. At least they've always been good about taking it back (and paying the return shipping as well). I suppose if you send rough leather to enough people, some of them won't know better and will keep it ...

Well, yeah -- there's that too

Didn't see teh search filter for 'local'? I'm currently in zip 56377. Anybody else doing leather in the area? I did look on fakebook, but it seems that people who do leather and the people who do web seo are not always the same people