Blake

That shell stamp pattern is typical of some of the S.D. Myers saddles of the 1950s , I have never seen it on a Jumbo but Troy West may know for sure when he reads the posts. I know that Myers made saddles under contract for several different clients. I actually had a youth saddle in my collection several years back that had his stamp plus a Feed store in Illinois. Both companies Myers and Jumbo have an interesting history and a decent reputation. Blake

David Some of the later model McClellans actually had sheepskin. The blankets were a high quality woven wool usually two layers thick sewed together. A lot of the modern felt blankets and pads also have a percentage of synthetic fiber included which can add to the instability. A true 100% wool felt pad is pretty expensive .Even the wool felt pads will vary from pressed rag felt to high quality needled or woven felt. The Pads/blankets were dampened before saddling according to information gleaned from an old field manual. I suppose this was to set the blanket so that it didn't slip. Blake

Great Job Marlon. looks like a great show that I missed again. Blake

I have had several of these saddles in my shop over the years and the assembly methods have been entertaining to say the least. One made by M.L.Leddy was drilled and tapped in all of the key places and it was done very well. Another Chattanooga model and at least one Tex-Tan were assembled using pop rivets expanded into the drilled holes. One that I can't remember the brand was assembled using self tapping screws and each screw hole created had a severe stress crack and at least one chunk missing .Some that had previous repairs were something else to see. I understand from an old source (Hadlock) that the idea came from a Tree Maker using an aluminum bar casting as a master for his duplicating equipment which is still done today so why not make a complete tree?. Aluminum was pretty much the big deal in saddlery especially after WWII and the Korean war. Rigging dees, rings, bits, spurs, stirrups, saddle horns, were pretty much the norm up to and through the 1960s. Blake

Hey Art I think that is actually a cast aluminum tree. Several Manufacturers tried them and you still see one around now and then. Blake

Hi Rick I don't build on the glass or synthetic trees so I haven't used any for my own saddles. The blue fitting system works very well for their trees but does not translate to other makers. They primarily build for production companies and have a nice assortment of styles and fits. Eddie Steele is a friend of mine and they are very nice people to do business with. Prices are very reasonable but you may have to call or Email for a current price list. Eddie is from the same family that builds the Steele trail saddles . Blake

http://www.steelesaddletreellc.com/V.html Hi David Try or cut and paste the link for Steele Saddle tree. Equifit is the brand name. I don't know that Tucker uses these trees but they are the same principle as far as ground seat. Its actually a pretty well designed system from an engineering perspective. Blake

It wasn't Len Brown, it was one of his people that did this .Evidently without Len's Knowledge. The company that makes the tree that you have is out of Gadsden Alabama. The card system out of Aust. is still in its infancy but in my opinion will only get better. It deals with actual measurements and profiles and as the data base expands it will eventually and finally give some sanity to the fit issue. I have done my own measurements in a similar way for years but Dennis has taken this to a level that I hope becomes an industry standard. I know that a lot of the better tree makers will work with a saddle maker using this system but I'm not too sure about the production tree makers to date. Someone mentioned that Bowden showed an interest at the Sheridan show.Its not a quick fix gimmick but a tool to be used by someone with a little savvy. This quote comes to mind " When designing something fool proof, Never underestimate the ingenuity of a complete fool" (end of quote) On the pressure mapping, we do use a computer system but we use it more for evaluation and research to improve upon design and construction of saddles in general. We found out early on that the competent Saddle Makers and Tree Makers already have a good grasp on what works. Especially the ones that have spent serious time in the saddle. Blake

Not Really. Some people have tried a flexible strainer thinking that it would move with the bars but it still comes loose. Maybe some duct tape? Actually it is just a poor thought out design. I was told by the manufacturer that the tree maker and designer from Ortho-Flex was the brains behind it but I don't know that to be fact. In an independent test We did pressure mapping on this tree and it was off the scale regardless of what we tried to make it work. Blake

Hi Rick The rubber bars are very hard on a horses back from one perspective. From a builders perspective you will get a ground seat nightmare. If you use a metal strainer you have to be aware of the bar rock because the way you set the strainer will determine the rock and balance of the tree. If you get this done then be prepared at some point to do it again as a repair. The flex of the bars has a tendency to undo everything. If you use a leather ground seat then the straightness of the bars become an issue as the saddle ages and that too will eventually need repair. They are also on the narrow side and don't fit many horses. Blake

Hi Andrew I have to apologize, I should have read your post a little closer. Blake

Its nice to see a "Birds Eye" used in the background when its done right. Great Job! Blake

Just a few thoughts here. I have been on both sides of this issue so look at it from the stores perspective too. Who is responsible for collecting your payment from the customer? Who is responsible for writing up the work order? Who is responsible for storing the repair until it is picked up? Who is responsible for providing a place for all of this to happen? Who calls you when a repair comes in? Who calls the customer when a repair is ready? Even the time spent taking in and writing up a repair takes up an employees time. I have never minded giving a retail store a reasonable percentage as they have given me an outlet that I would not normally have. I also found that over time especially with custom work the customer would bypass the store and contact me directly. As far as an hourly wage you have to decide what your market will bare but I would adjust it upwards to counter whatever the percentage is that you give the store. It costs you money and time too just to make the pick ups and deliveries. Lots of Tack stores have this service for boot repair as well as tack repair but there has to be incentive for both of you to make it work. If there is no incentive for the store then it will grow old fairly fast. A percentage also obligates them somewhat to the arrangement. Offering this service from the stores perspective doesn't actually bring that much new business to them as much as it provides a service to their existing customer base and as we all know its important to keep that base constant and happy. Another thought is ......... How much leather care products will you sell for the store by recommendation on the invoice when a repair is picked up? If it is a reasonable amount then you may want to re-negotiate and have them wave the percentage or increase your prices a bit more for your time spent selling their products to the customer. Is 10% of a $50.00 repair all that much for everything that has to happen on the stores part? Is the $50.00 repair really worth all of the time and travel that you endure ? I would look at the volume potential as someone else said," it might not be worth getting out of bed for". Most repairmen do a milk route sort of thing like pickup on Monday and drop off on Friday and this saves making several trips a week . I'm not pro or con either way, I'm just pointing out some perspectives if you want to make it work. I have clients that own specialty stores that take orders for custom leather goods. I get these orders and make a decent profit and they do too. I work out of my shop at home and rarely have anyone in my shop. They pay a tremendous overhead and pay for advertisement, public relations etc. They get headaches. I get another glass of tea. They get tire kickers and bebacks. I get orders. They take credit cards and pay a percentage. I get a cup of coffee. My headache is meeting the delivery and I control that so its not a major deal. Blake

Hello Jordan I have that exact stitching horse so if you need a tracing of the jaws when you get ready to build let me know. The jaws in mine are made from "Hard Rock Maple" and the seat or bench is oak. I have seen the same pattern with the bench made of pine. Another Saddle maker duplicated mine years ago and found the wood at an architecture wood supply house rather than a conventional lumber yard or supply house. Blake

Hi Bruce Congratulations on the victory and Thanks for posting the pictures . But next time take more pictures of the bits and spurs........PLEEEEEZE? Is the challenge going to be a yearly thing? Blake

I have one that has been held together with a small finishing nail bent into a "U" shape and then closed like a staple. I was going to replace the nail with a staple first chance but I forgot about it and that was over 15 years ago. Still ticking! I would suggest that you cut a small groove in both sides at the ends of the belt for the staple to lay in so that you get a smooth surface. Sometimes you might want to rest your hand on the wheel for slow work and a quick stop and the staple will kind of unnerve you when it hits your hand. I have used nylon syn. sinew but it seems to give up at random times. DON"T PLACE THE HOLES FOR THE STAPLES TOO CLOSE TO THE ENDS. Blake

The cigar cases were in two issues, July/August and Sept./Oct. 1997 That would be volume 7 # 4 & 5. I think Jordan (great suggestion) is right about the metal tubes if you want it water tight. I'm sure you can make them to hold the tubes as easily as the cigars themselves. Blake

Check on the LCSJ web site for back issues . I know they published a pattern or two some years back. I know I have the issue somewhere and will try to locate it and let you know which one it is. Blake

Hello Tim The 144 is a fairly decent machine for chaps . It is basically an upholstery machine. Parts are common and available from Campbell Bosworth, Sunbrand, Penn or other supply houses that cater to that industry. Blake

Well Said Paul, I agree 100% Thouroughbred Leather although tanned in Mexico is tanned to a high standard and is consistant in quality even more so than a couple of American tanners that tend to go up and down. It is not my number one choice but I sure don't have a problem with it. The EPA has run a lot of tanneries out of business and out of the country but good management along with a good tanners knowledge base has boosted the quality of import leathers tremendously. Research each tannery before putting an inferior label on them . There certainly are some extremely poor tanneries out there but once you learn how to judge a good hide you will learn to avoid them along with their distributers. Blake

Hello Blake How big are you going to carve it? There are several ways to add dimension depending on the size and application. By the way, I like your name. Blake

Hello Hans There is or was a museum in Brevard NC that had a very nice Drovers saddle on display. The museum was partly a private collection from the late Jim Bob Tinsley, a great historian and musician and author of several books on cowboy subjects . You might try a google search to check the status of the museum and see if any pictures might be available. The saddle was in my shop for evaluation some years back and other than a nice cleaning and conditioning it needed no repairs and was 100% original.. I realize this does not provide the patterns that you are looking for but pictures of any original may help you develop your own patterns. Blake

Hello David I think that you can clearly see that no one is attacking you. They/We just want reasonable answers . You have always stated that your way is superior to what the mainstream is doing and all we have asked for is a credible explanation. A few pictures of your tree on a horse with some decent instruction will go a long way. I think that we are all a bit puzzled by your lack of response to this request. We are not so set in our ways that we would not be willing to change our approach if there really is a better method and the industry could benefit. Modern Industry calls that upgrading and some call it progress. I think that Greg at one point even offered to build on one of your trees. It might be a good thing for you to get with a Saddle Maker/Horseman like Greg.You might both come away a bit better from the experience. Greg, The "C" position is fairly common on Gaited horses being ridden with a flat saddle. Like you, I have never seen this with a western saddle . Kind Regards Blake

Hello David I appreciate what you are trying to say but You don't need to play head games or talk down to people to avoid answering honest questions by referring to someone that tried to make you think. I pretty much think that all of us "Old Timers" can be open minded to learning new ways. Thats how we got to be Old Timers instead of falling by the wayside. I'm afraid that your credibility is headed down the tubes unless you can show everyone what they have asked of you. You need to post pictures of your tree as Bruce requested showing what is so different about it and how it sits on a healthy horse along with an explanation of the dynamics when it is being ridden. If we have been doing it so wrong for such a long time then I for one would like to see how it is supposed to be and why. I have a few books on equine anatomy and have a decent understanding of the muscle structure so adding links to more pictures still doesn't directly answer any questions that you have been asked. Regards Blake

The pictures are interesting especially B & C Where the horse is standing too far under itself exaggerating the hip. Picture A is just the opposite, The horse is well behind itself. The horse appears to have some issues other than where the rider is sitting. David you need to clarify what you are saying and maybe give us some of the professional pictures that you use when you do your clinics and presentations. Its hard to grasp what you are trying to say or show everyone with the bits and pieces and antique art. It might also help if you furnished us with your background as a Horseman. I think everyone here is trying to understand if you can be a little more clear. Kind Regards Blake