bruce johnson

Ryan, Regarding a traditional bouncer, Norm Lynds made me one a couple years ago. I think Norm is a member here. If not, I'll see if I can dig up an email address for him. I am attaching a picture below. I used to use doorknobs, but had issues with procelain vs. concrete floor. I used to buy them by the 6s at the architectural salvage, and still ran low. Norm's has a "doorknob" on one end and a bigger and slightly flatter piece on the other end. It does what I ask of it. I have a seat stick from Hidecrafters. I had to do some tuning on it to get the shape I wanted. Big Sky's was ready to go, but I needed to use a return credit at HC. Now as far as rubbing blocks and big bone folders - LDPE. I use the cutting board material. I cut it out with a jigsaw, and shape it with my belt sander, router, and sanding drums. It works up really easy. I have made up different curves for swells, and blocks for slicking leather. Neat thing is if you hit a nail and nick it, a quick brush against the sanding drum or belt and I am back in business in under a minute.

Wood, Looks good. I did new fenders for an old Oliver saddle a couple years ago. Try as hard as I could, I could only find that they used 5 stamps on the whole thing - seeder, beveler, backgrounder, thumbprint shader, and a cam. I can hold that many stamps in my mouth. Much easier to duplicate these old patterns for dang sure.

I got these spools in a package deal, and have enough white on hand. There are 6 spools total, and all are unused. There are two spools of DaBond Poly - 277 and 346. These are still shrink wrapped and crisp white. There are two spools of bonded nylon in 207 and 346 that are also in the plastic and crisp white. There are a spool of 346 and 415 that were on a shelf and have yellowed a bit on the surface. I want to sell these as set at $40, plus $9 for flat rate Prioroty Mail shipping. Picture below. Thanks.

I have a brand new and unused 5/8" English point Osborne end punch. It still has the plastic dip to protect the blade and is in the box. I already have one. It is $15, and shipping by flatrate Priority mail is $5. I'll do check or PayPal. Thanks, icture below. I also have 6 spools of thread and would combine shipping if you buy those too. They are listed under "supplies and hardware".

Charlie, I am not a braider, but have had a few different splitters, and finally found the style I will die with. I have had the Osborne 86, Osborne 84 knockoff, a hand crank, have gotten the little TLF ones in tool sets, and they all work. Some are better than others. I really prefer the Chase pattern splitters for my work. There are two rollers that feed the piece into the blade, and so the piece would have a hard time riding up a blade and chopping like can happen with some of the pther styles. As far as for braiding strings, there are several made just for that. Wayne Jueschke makes one, I think they are still selling the Frank Hanson version, LaceMaster, and others. I think there is a thread going in the braider section on that. My advice would be to try a few different ones before you buy if you can.

I use mine for thinning down leather, mainly for straps. They can also be used for skives of different lengths. It allows me to buy heavier leather, and then thin to thickness I need, rather than several weights of leather. Also, I can match things better. I can have heavier brief case sides, and lighter handles from the same side. I have an 8" and 10" splitter. I pulled some 7-1/2 through the 10" today with not a lot of effort, both feet were still on the floor. There are some wider splitters that can split big pieces down. Some are motorized and some are wheel cranked. They are a bit spendy unless you find the right deal on one and have need. Splitters are not the first thing a shop needs, but they are handy when you get going. Several styles are out there, and a ot of the old relics are more functional than new ones. Some prefer one or the other.

Alan, If you would have asked me a year ago, I fell in with the rigging having a bigger influence on where a saddle sits than it does. There is at least one scenario where I see that it does. First off is the rider who has been taught from the get-go that you hang the cinch straight down behind the elbow. A lot of us that grew up with full double or close riggings learned that. I learned as a kid to lay my saddle further forward of where is should be, and slide it back until it fell into the right spot. This was to lay down the wool in the direction it was put on, smooth out any blanket wrinkles, lay down the horses hair, and Grandpa said so. When I got smarter and older, I was riding roping and cutting saddles with the full double Dee riggings and so the cinch behind the elbow rule kind of fit. Not because of rigging position, but that was the sweet spot for the tree. With the popularity of Wades and flat plates, we have people trained in the cinch position all of the sudden strapping on 5/8 riggings to the elbow and holding them there with breast collars.

Ed, I am going to add another factor in here. I look at which way the drain water swirls. No, seriously, I don't think it makes much difference with thread. It matters how you load the bobbin and the direction it unwinds in the case. If it is the wrong way, swap the bobbin end for end. Kind of like the great "toilet paper unwinding over the top or from the bottom" debate one of those inane newspaper advice columnists supported themselves with a few years back. That said, I usually wind my bobbins the way it was wound on the spool. I lay my bobbin supply spools in a drawer and unwind them clockwise (viewed from the bottom of the spool) from the side letting them spin in the drawer, and onto the bobbin clockwise. My logic with the lay of ropes, and unwinding or winding hose and barbwire tells me that should be right. In real life, bobbin winders on machines unwind from the top, and so will feed coils onto the bobbin. If it is the direction to tighten the thread twist or unwind it, I am not sure. Obviously not a huge concern of the sewing industry, because they all do it. When I cut the bobbin thread from the main spool, I usually get about 6-10" that springs off. I just figure that as my tag end. My two cents worth.

Doug, I look at the same searches as Andy, plus I look at "shoe repair", "saddlemaking", and "saddle making". I also look at the categories a bit. Start in "crafts" scroll down to "leathercraft" and look at the "leather tools and treatments". That picks off most of the hand tools and bench tools. I normally look at "ending today" and "newly listed" in the categories.

Doug, I am attaching some pics so people know what we are talking about. The Landis handcrank is the gray tool with the handle in the first pic. It has a 2" blade, and can be adjusted for pitch, and the fence can adjust for depth and width of the skive. Good for firm leather like skirting. Actually it was designed for skiving sole leather in the shoe trade. I bought it refurbished with a 3-in-1 for around $300 for both . These show up on ebay a lot. Some of the American ones have the severe feed wheel on top. It will mark your leather. Mine doesn't leave anything that couldn't be rubbed out if needed. Also the 2-in-1, 3-in-1, and 5-in-1 bench machines all have a skiver just like these. They are on ebay a lot too, usually $150-350. My buddy just bought an American "B" skiver for something like $56. It will be cherry when he is done with it. I used to have this Landis along with 2 3-in-1s. I had each of them set to a different skive. Ended up after I got the bell knife skiver I didn't use them. I think Joe Benner had a 4" handcrank skiver at Elko last spring, I hadn't seen one that wide before. The bell knife skiver has several presser feet. It will do up to a 2" skive, and is pretty much fully adjustable for pitch, width and depth. I bought the skiver along with a steel feed wheel, new knife, new sharpening wheels and dressing sticks, several presser feet, table, and new motor for around $1400 I think. Along with a half day lesson on my leather. Plus I got to eat pizza with Wayne Christensen and Harvey Lutske later on. The casting is heavier on mine vs. the new models. Might be a factor. Parts are pretty readily available. There are a ton of different feet for specific skives and grooves. I bought what feet I figured I would use, and have. I might get one to do a 1/8 or 3/16 channel at some point.

Ok, we are getting into some training and philososphy of riding, which gives us all some perspective of our backgrounds and needs/wants of our customers. To weigh in on the saddle horn thing, grab or not to grab. I am a grabber, I am not a choker or a puller usually. Yes those things will get you in wreck. But also horns were put there for a reason, and they serve a purpose, one of which is to be an anchor point. If I am getting bucked off and am loose and pitching forward, there are certain anatomical considerations. You can bet I am going to grab and push myself back down or push on it to stay back. I have had a couple of injuries. Two compression fractured vertebrae from being bucked off. That was kind of a bad day, as was the 40 mile ride to the hospital. I have fractured my pelvis and wasn't bucked off, that was a worse day. I then had to figure how to get off him after I got the playday stopped. As an aside, don't refuse help from the neighbor lady driving by. I thought I had aggravated an old chronic groin injury when I felt the pop. Right after she drove off, I felt the bones grating. I have no shame using a horn. Kiskaddon talks about it some of his poetry. The old farts will all admit to doing it if they are pressured into being truthful. Yeah they did it when they needed to. Most of what we are talking about is way different than someone holding on the saddlehorn nose-to-tail-down-the-trail or learning to ride in the ring. Yes you need to learn balance, rythm, feeling the horse, knowing their feet, all that to really be a rider. I worked for a cutting horse trainer, and used to show them too. You want to see a horn, look at what they use now. It is a handle, and every one of them use it. Mostly to push on, but sometimes you pull jumping out of a sweep. A horse pops into run, leaves a roping or bulldogging box, pull yourself up or steady yourself with the horn. Barrel racers pull up leaving a barrel. Reined cowhorse riders on a tight turn on the fence sometimes need to push back up. There are always exceptions, but by an large, it is pretty common for some darn good riders to lay a hand on the horn.

Just as a friendly reminder. When we change a topic within a thread, it is easy to carry right on there and we all do it. Problem is that finding a discussion later or for new folks finding us, it is hard to look everywhere. If we could move the discussion on saddle tree suppliers over to the saddle section, we have a subtopic already on "saddle Supplies. Tools, and Trees". Anybody can feel free to add topics as they see fit. That is going to make this whole deal a lot more searchable, and less hassle on the upper echelon computer literate staff. I am going to learn how to move things, but want to wait to get the greenlight before I break the board. Thanks to all for the great discussions, and hopefully the old posts will be restored soon. Then the new folks can REALLY see where we have come from.

Barra, I have Ferdco's 1245, a clone of the Pfaff. Nope, no bobbin winder on the machine. Good little machine though. I have had it for a year, still waiting for the first skipped stitch once I got the tensions set to my likings. Apparently there are other "1245s". On the boot and shoemakers forum, they talked about about the 1245, but one that is a post machine totally unrelated in any recognizable form to the Pfaff or the clones of it. Silly me, I thought I knew the answer. Ed, I think the key to bobbins is to have an even tension and wind them level. A softer lie and then harder tension over that can dig a thread in, and it may drag when feeding. If the drag is more than the cast tension, it will pull tighter. That would be the only situation I could see where bobbon winding tension could be an issue. Likewise an uneven bobbin where the thread is feeding from low, and rides into the blob of thread above it and catches might be a problem. Think level-wind like the old baitcasting fishing reels.

Randy, Going rate a while back according to a barroom survey was 10 cents per spot, plus the cost of the spot. When I was doing a bunch of them (like the belt shown in the Wrangler ads now even LARGER, my mother is so proud), I did a time study. I could consistatnly do 6 per minute over the long haul. That was close enough to shop rate, I just use that. Now I proably need to give myself a raise and go to 12 cents. I use the slider and collar setup too. I have a hand press, but am faster and more accurate with the slider deal.

Ed, I really don't see a noticeable difference. Some I wind on the 2000, some I do with the drill. If I have a long run (rein day), I wind all the empties I have at once on the drill. Faster for me to do that than to change out bobbins on the machine, set the next one, do it over. I don't much care for the winders that bind on the belt, so I never installed it on the 1245, all those I use the drill. I tension with my thumb and forefinger, so tension is pretty consistant. I dont see tension as much of a factor, as long as it is consistant. The biggest tensioner is on the bobbin case, not how tight the bobbin is wound on the spool. Biggest advantage I have with doing them with the drill is I can evenly wind them. No glob in the center and tapered ends. That is what catches and binds sometimes as you sew. My experience.

ED, I guess I know who I am going to call next time I need a special punch. Thirty for a die, and twenty more for a handle. That is a bargain. Thanks for the homework.

JREI, I have a thread on this and my experiences in the "Leather Sewing Machine" section under the topic Bell Knife Skiver. Thumbnail, I use mine quite a bit, and no problems.

Bob, I have done that with round punch tubes to make ovals. Heat them and flatten them. I think Ed's shop is his apartment in NYC so he might be limited on do-it-yourself equipment. Another thought I have based on your suggestion. What do you think about heating a round arch punch and flattening it to make an oval? Have to retemper the edge probably, but might work and be cost effective. I would also be curious to see a quote from a die maker too. I think I paid about $30 each for my coaster dies that are 4". If I wanted handles it was something like $45 more. Locally machinists are in short supply. About $100 for anything to walk in the door, and a month turnaround for little orders.

Ryan, When this topic was going precrash, I talked to a few guys who had listed using them on their website or I knew were using them. It kind of hit a few guys at once. Sounds like Dennis and Randy George got some of the last ones from Ben. When I went to order more, Brackney's number was not working. In talking to other guys, all anyone knew was that someone bought the rights from Ben, and nobody knew who. Word was they were going to use them for their own use, and not sell commercially. One guy is friends with someone at Circle Y, they used a bunch and apparently was not them that bought it. Leaves a few other players. I talked to Ben, hadn't talked to him in quite a while. He wouldn't or couldn't say who bought them. I am sure there is a confidentiality deal with the sale, and it may not have all gone through yet. I can respect that. It is not the end of the world for me. These buckles are good for what they do, but I made it without them before and the rock will still be spinning in the morning. It will eventually come out who has them, and I can't beleive they think exclusivity in a stirrup buckle is going to be key to their product sales.

Richard, I can't speak for the 3000 directly, haven't had one. I have had 5 machines though. When I got my first one, they told me to use hydraulic jack oil with a little bit of ProLong oil additive in it, both can be had at most auto parts stores. I hit a couple drops on all the red marked places. On mine there are a couple knuckles in the slot in the head cover I can hit too. I put a drop on my finger and wipe the bobbin case. Those round inspection plates cover oil spots on my machines. The holes on top are supposed to drip onto some of them, but why guess?? I open them up and hit them directly too. There is a bigger inspection plate on the back, and a few oil spots on cams and knuckles in there too. There are a couple behind the head cover that I hit too. I put a long tube (OK, it is a plastic urinary catheter) on my plastic oil bottle. It makes reaching these spots pinpoint. I do a "total oil" every other or third day under normal use. Heavy use - every day. The red spots and accessible points every day. I wipe the bobbin case every 5-6 bobbin changes. I use Ballistol to clean with, and then reoil as needed. If I am doing repairs, I clean afterward pretty religiously. You can clean leather beforehand, but there will still be some grit. Otherwise I clean weekly or so. The lube pot mounts on the top of the machine and the top thread goes through it. The lube is more to reduce friction heat on the needle and prevent the thread's bonding coat from sticking to the needle. Reduces some stitch skipping issues, especially with higher speed or harder leather.

Jordan, I haven't made a belt in 15 years that wasn't finished with either Supersheen or Feibing Leathersheen. I put the finish on - one good coat, let dry about 10-15 minutes, and then another. I then work the belt back and forth around a bend a little to soften it. Reading your post, I am seeing something, and if true. might be the cause. You used pro dye and an acrylic finish. Any type of oil after the dye? The dye will (in my experience) stiffen the grain and make it boardy, prone to cracking. Especially so if you used good firm leather to start with. The oil will replace the conditioning the dye took out or moved around. Some folks like Lexol, others Bick, others probably that chunk of orange fat off the top of canned chili, I know how my oil behaves in my leather. It just takes something to replace that conditioner after dyeing.

Ed, None commercially available I know of. Try having a die made and have them put a handle on it. Texas Custom Dies could probably do it.

Pete, About the piece of inner tube in one hand and the screwdriver in the other. Issue I had was once the force was applied to the screwdriver, and it happened to slip off those shallow worn screw slots, the blade will penetrate some distance into that hand holding the piece of inner tube. I am a slower learner, and have done this a few times. I have had some luck with a piece of inner tube on top of the bench and using that as a backing. It works a little better. If I don't care much about the concho, a vicegrip on the head and a little heat from a soldering iron on the screw can loosen them too. This little tool has a rubber head on one side, and a "forked" jaw on the other to surround the screw head. When you grip it, the rubber hold the post or concho, and the forked part relieves some of the bind on the screw head. When I first saw this thing adverised in ShopTalk or wherever it was, I told my wife I ought to get one. Ended up and put it off, finally saw the ebay listing and bought two, one for me and one for a gift. I have one of my first headstalls, and my late first wife used one of our old Garcia bits on it, and put some old Visalia conchos on it. Her family was one of those nail polish or iodine (corrosive) on the screw threads to secure them bunch. For a few years, I have kind of been wanting to retire this headgear, but wanted the bit on another headstall. The bit end conchos won't budge with anything I tried without risk. I got this tool, got a grip and gave a twist. First one backed right out. Other side was a bit harder, and I slipped. Since my left hand was gripping the pliers, no bleeding. Second twist got it. Yeah, this tool works. With the value of the conchos and bloodshed it saved, I am money ahead. Bottom line though, I couldn't bring myself to change it out and put the bit back on with those conchos. My first concern when I got it was that it was made from some space age plastic, not metal. After using, it should be. There is just enough flex, you won't scissor action your way through most leather as you grip harder. I don't use it on every concho or Chicago screw, but it fit the bill when I needed it so far. I have used it more than I expected.

Billy, Send me your mailing address and I will send you a sampler of several sizes and colors.

We have a few new folks here, and sounds like all of us have been bucked off. I want to start this thread to kind of tie up this topic in one place. Probably very few of us build many bronc saddles, unless the 7-10 guys that do are using aliases here. Some of us will see them for repairs though. I just want to have a thread dedicated to construction and repair of them when we do see them. Things like stiffener material for inside leathers, bind material (biothane, latigo, or harness?), is it doable for the average guy to "rod" a tree, should we rod a tree or is it time for a new one, replacing or reworking a ground seat, all leather or half strainer seat, rerigging to stay within the rules (which are a bit nebulous), that sort of thing. If we tend toward new construction, that's cool too.