bruce johnson

Jason asked in another thread the differences between edgers. I don't have any of the ones I started out with. They were Osborne #TL127 style. They do OK, but I find them harder to sharpen and maintain. The ones I have now are the Vizzard patterns from Jeremiah Watt, Bisonettes from Bob Douglas, and round bottom edgers from Jeremiah. I have attached pics of each style I have - the Vizzard is on the left, the Bisonette is center, and the round bottom is on the right. The top view shows the spread. The next picture shows the bottom surface and the cutting profile. The side shot shows the sweep of the blades. The advantages I see with the different styles. The curve or "sweep" of the Vizzard lets me be at a little higher angle and still have the same blade angle. Excellent for when I am edging a strap or rein by keeping the tool stationary next to the jig and pulling a strap through. It is also good for "scooping cuts" like on buckle folds or trimming welts. I can also use it for some cuts that a straight bladed French edger might not fit into. The Bisonette is a good all around edger. It can't cut too deep. With both edges of the hole sharp, it will edge on a push or pull stroke. Bob's pattern has a good difference of angle at the hole. Some are pretty flat, and trickier to strop one edge without getting into the opposing edge. The round bottom has a little flatter blade, and cuts a nice profile. It and the Vizzard are easy for me to sharpen and strop. The exposed blade and short toes lests you get right there with minimum fuss. The short/no toes let you edge slots without a special turnback edger, they will make a tight turn and keep the blade in contact with the leather. The short toes will also not guide quite as easily, and you can get under thin lining and scoop a nice divot. You have to be a bit watchful, one guy told me you have to make friends with the round bottoms. Good analogy. To compare size numbers that I mentioned in another thread. I mentioned that numbers don't mean much between makers. Here's how I compare them. I take a piece and edge with each of the two competitors. I switch and run the other edger over the previously edged piece. If I can take any more off, I know the second edger is bigger than the first. If neither one will remove any from the other, they are probably very close or the same. Just comparing the Jeremiah Watts to Bob Douglas' bisonette now. Jeremiah's #2 and Bob's #4 are pretty close to or are the same.

Marlon, Thanks for the tutorial. I like the tip of stacking coins to establish an angle. A penny is working for my pocket knife. I run a a little thinner edge than you do on the round knife - mine is about a 26 cent angle. Great tip there, as well as the sharpening instructions. Thanks again.

Ben, Ben already knows this. There is a really cool thing about going to shows like Sheridan, Wichita Falls, or Wickenburg. I can take a piece of my leather, carry it around in my pocket, and I can go to Bob Douglas' room, Barry King's booth, and Horsehoe Brand (Jeremiah Watt) and compare edgers from all three. There may even be a brand X new guy. Then I can buy what feels right for me. The reason I have the two bisonette's from Bob? Rundi tried them at Wickenburg last year. On the way home she regretted not just buying them there. She mainly edges the long straps like reins and leathers, or the tedious small stuff. That is why I only have a size 1 and 4 right now. Whether we fill in with more "Bobs" or just whose, ask me (or her) May 18th. I am adding this just to clear up a wording thing and omission that could be misconstrued. I was not intending to belittle or laugh at Ben's suggestion, and apologize to any who might have thought that. Ben and I agree on a lot of the tools we use. I have edgers from Jeremiah and am very happy with them, as I am with hand tools from Bob Douglas and Barry King. I am happy with ones from Ron also. The biggest issue with shopping around now is that I have to fill the inbetween sizes. Unless I buy from Bob (and I may well do that), I have to compare sizes. The size numbers that a maker puts on his tools may or may not be close to the next maker's tools with his numbering system. I have found that Jeremiah's sizes run bigger in the same number compared to some others. As far as I know, Ron doesn't make bisonettes, so that leaves Jeremiah, Bob, and Barry to compare. Since I am going to the show, it is going to be a lot easier to compare them side by side than through UPS.

Jason, It was probably me. I like Jeremiah Watt's round bottom and vizzard pattern edgers. I had a set previously from Ron, and they are living out their days now in Ireland. The round bottom edgers take a little learning and careful use, and I still sometimes will take a scoop out of a lining leather. These particular pattern of edgers are simple for me to keep sharp and cut a nice curved profile. Probably the biggest reason I like them is the simple maintenance. My wife prefers Bob Douglas' bisonette edgers. I have them in a #1 and #4 size. They come ready to use, and can't go too deep or gouge. I am tending to reach for them more also. I expect I'll be filling in the set in May.

Ryan, Consignment can be a two edged sword. Be careful. They never take as good of care of things in the shop as things they have bought. I have done consignment and wholesale work in the past. On consignment there has to be enough profit for them to stock it, but the other stuff they are buying from "Big Wholesaler" gives them a better margin. Whose work will they push more once the honeymoon is over? I got along best when I shipped them upper end kind of stuff for big events, like the World Show or the NFR shows. Stuff that would appeal to that market and be sold in a week. I scaled back on what I sent for them to beat up and down the road with going to the weekend rodeos and regional horseshows. The same people are going to those events week in and weekout. They had already seen it three times last month. If they were going to buy it, they would have. Shops are worse, because the customer base is usually more limited, and customers may not go to the tackshop every week. If you are rodeoing or horsehowing, the tacktrailers tend to be a social gathering spot, so customers are usually seeing stuff at least a couple times a month. I price my stuff at materials and labor. Bob's book covers both pretty well. If he is still doing the 10 or 20% materials inventory markup, ignore that factor and do at least 60% (standard in some businesses) or 100%. Your mechanic and plumber sure markup more than 20%. My labor when I was doing a lot of the wholesale/awards stuff was about 2/3 or 3/4 strandard shop rate. I was making it up on volume and economy of labor doing a lot of the same thing at once. Individual custom orders were at shop rate at the end. The good thing was I got to do a lot of different things. I learned a lot, and got my work into the hands of people I never would have otherwise. I also paid some serious bills at a time when I had no other options. Don't let the business get behind on paying you, and it doesn't hurt to know what they have sold. Keep them current. It will help both of you. Currently I am down to one guy taking outside orders. He calls me and tells me what he needs. He pays well, and has never kicked on prices as they have gone up. He mostly wants a one of custom order now. He can make more off the big time wholesaler's stuff. That's fine, and I don't have to try to compete on price with the Weavers. As far as pricing repairs. Bob's book and Bob's "current market" are geared for Bob's area and Bob's customers. If you look at saddle shop sites on the internet, there are a lot of them that have a published repair price list. They are all over the scale. Some apparently don't want to do any repairs by pricing high, and others want to do all of mine by pricing too low. Big thing is never cheapen the price of a repair because of the value of the item. If it is cheap old $200 saddle and they want to reline it, charge them whatever your rate is. My mechanic doesn't charge any less to repair my Chevy with 430K miles on than he does the Ford with 60K. Let them make the decision. Again the repair prices should be based on materials and time. Most repairs will take longer than you figure before hand. After you have done some, then you will have a feel for an ''average''. I think Bob mentioned a kitchen timer to keep track of time. Great advice. If you do something and are interrupted, time out. If you are working on a few things, keep individual time. That will give you a better feel for actual times when you are done. Keep the estimate kind of open to allow for the "how did the maker do that" surprises. Once you have done a few, you will probably add about 20% to actual time as a fudge factor for quotes. The easy ones will make it up for the harder ones. There are a lot of solid concepts in Bob's book, but don't get hung up on his own prices either way.

Normally I am a guy who prefers specialization. I let the tool makers make the tools, I buy them and then use them. More efficient use of time usually. Probably 10 years ago at least I needed the pebble tool to duplicate a piece for a repair. At that time Bob was the only one making them, and was out about 4-5 months on making me any. He told me "any idiot" can make those. Take a flat head bolt and grind around on the head to make the shape you want. Then take grinding burrs on a dremel and make depressions of random sizes, shapes, and depths. I made a couple and they came out pretty well. Not a lot of time involved either on those. I know there are some do-it-yourself stampmakers on the forum, and this is one of those that is pretty straightforward to make.

DC, I don't have any scraps in those colors. If you don't get any to come your way, you might call Jerry VanAmburg (www.vanamburgleathers.com). The baby rays he sells are not very pricey, and mine have run about 6x10. Even if I need several inlays, I find better yield for the buck buying the babies. On the phone he usually can wheel and deal on some that might have a defect on part. Shipping won't kill you from him either. Good guy to deal with for me. He is probably at Wickenburg now, and might have a show special price when he gets back home, depending on good sales or not. If you haven't dealt with him before, he is "high octane".

Hilly, Nope never done anything like that except; 1) there was this one time I tried to feed a strap into the draw gauge instead on pulling the drawgauge into the strap. The blade stuck far enough into the bone to hang there. Not a recommended storage method for draw gauges. The "draw" in draw gauge has a double meaning, as in " to draw blood". 2) oh yes. Then there was the time I was wearing flipflops in the shop. You know that string bleeders have a round handle. When they roll off the bench, they will tip and end up point down, stuck in that large vein running across the top of your bare foot. It really doesn't bleed much until you pull it out. That is right before you flatten one side of the handle to keep it from rolling off the bench. I found the reason that tool is called a "bleeder".

Wolf, If you used firm leather (like is recommended for straps/belts - from the butt or top of the back) and didn't case and prebend it while cased, you sure can crack the grain after finishing. By casing it first and then folding, you can stretch the grain leather and make the fold. The fold will also stay tighter later on. Sounds like that is what happened.

Anne, I haven't tried the new formula yet. I bought 12 gallons of the old stuff. I am down to a couple left. Some things I have heard. Most all of the AP cements are or have been reformulated. Masters, Barge, etc. Most of the new mixes tend to separate and require stirring or shaking prior to use. I just got a gallon of EMU SAR (some number here) to try. Haven't cracked the lid yet. I got it through a local shoe repair guy with his order. He has used it quite a while and likes it. Seems like a lot of the supplies of the old formulas are now getting down, and the new formulas are starting to ship. There will be learning curve with the new formulas, and new-to-us cements as folks get going with them. Someone said something the other day that their new Barge was thinner and smelled stronger than before. I am wondering if he got the word to mix it up first or just poured mostly solvent off the top?

Tom, You might contact the Tandy in Sac. I have seen it behind the counter there in qts. I was told a while ago that some or all of the locations of TLF can't ship any of the HL products within CA. They all ship from the warehouse by ground. Has to do with hazardous shipping requirements, training, and paperwork that would be required for each location. I was also told that resale # to purchase Barge was a TLF policy and not a regulation per se. Other sources for Barge are Weavers, and other suppliers carry it too. I buy in gallons. I have about exhausted my supplies, and am trying some other AP cements. You might check with a local shoe repair shop. You might be able to piggyback on one of their orders. Some of their supplies are delivered by sales reps or in larger boxes with one HL fee to dilute out those charges.

Jeff, For books - the Stohlman series are about as complete as it gets. They show several methods of doing things. Some of what they do is pretty labor intensive, or dated. Most is pretty applicable, and the principles are sound. The thing to remember (and I catch crap for this about every time I say it) is this. Al Stohlman was A saddlemaker, not THE saddlemaker. He was in the right place at the right time, and got the instructional deal going with Tandy long before the saddle books. Like everyone else who has ever written anything, there are always guys out there making a living who are better, and were better in his time as well. They may do things the same or different. Just because he wrote the books doesn't mean he was the end-all. Most of the stuff in the books is fine. The Harry Adams book assumes some previous leather working skills and saddle knowledge. It is more of a "how to build a Wade and make up your own patterns" book in the first part. The second section covers how to do variations in swell patterns, horn covers, skirts, etc. Pair the Harry Adams book up with the Stohlman books and you have a decent library. Jeremiah Watt's videos are again pretty complete. He gives some of the reasoning, noit just "do this just like this" with no background as to why. The Dale Harwood DVDs are good for some of the detail work and techniques. You couldn't probably make one from from Scratch from Dale's set, but you should pick up enough tricks and tips to make the next one better. The second part of your question is the milllion dollar question. No, I don't think a beginner could get everything they need from any of these books or videos. Philosophy time. I think you need to know how a saddle functions, why, how to order what you need, why different seat shapes improve or make a particular discipline more difficult, what you want a saddle for, and how to deal with what your customer expects from their saddle. You have to know what you want the final product to look and function like. These are intangibles that come from time in the saddle. They aren't things you can read about, learn in 2 weeks at someone's saddle school, or learn everything in a lifetime. There is also no substitute for spending time looking over someone's shoulder, having them help you, and hands-on. Saddlemaking is not just about covering a tree with leather. People and horses both hurt when something isn't right. The mechanics are a huge part of it. It is also pretty rewarding when you see your work a few years later. He tells you that it is the best sitting saddle his dad has ever ridden in too. Happened last weekend, and my wife got a picture. I'll attach the pic. He seems like a happy customer. Makes it worthwhile.

I use a few different knives depending on what I am cutting and the shape of the cut. I have a few larger round head knives. I prefer the old Clyde knives. They seem to hold an edge better for me, and still sharpen up and maintain easily. I have an Osborne and like it OK too. I got the little wore out one paired up with a Clyde on an ebay deal. It is a cute little knife, obviously has seen some use, and is dandy for tighter inside curves. Keeps an amazingly good edge for no doubt being way past the tempering. There's a little magic in it still. It can live out its golden years on my board. I use the regular blade roller knife with a straightedge (metal rule) for most all straight cuts up to 16 oz skirting. I use the scalloped one for...cutting scalloped edges. It will even cut scallops on pretty heavy leather, I scalloped some 13 oz for an overlay on a rope can a while back. The sleeper knife is the blue handled beauty. It is a grape picker knife bought for $5 at the local surplus store. Does a nice job on tight inside curves, or "pulling" cuts. Keeps an edge like nobody's business - great steel. I have a few straight handled knives I grab too. I sometimes use the straight blade knife with the guard to square up edges. I use the point knives mostly on some tight saddle cuts, or tight trimming in gussets. The green handled lip knife has a curl in the tip, I can ride over another piece and trim without going too deep. The Osborne skiver is OK. I mostly trim with it, not much skiving. Another gem is the paring blade. I saw a guy at a ranch rodeo in Livermore use one of these to skive a mulehide hornwrap. He layed it over a big glass bowl as a skiving surface and ripped the edge off as fast he could pull it with the other hand. Impressive. He had made his own from an old sawblade. My old buddy came up with this one for me, and it is a dandy too. I know it seems like a lot of knives, and I could probably get by without some. Some came in sets and I just kept them. I do a lot different things, and cut a lot of leather. I explained to my wife this way. There is a reason there are 18 filled slots in the knife block in the kitchen(granted 6 are steak knives). Each knife has a function, so do mine. I think she is buying it.

Looks like a guy is going to have to work a little bit here. Jim, I really like your fillers in the stem work where it splits off. That's some good. I am needing to do a 4 floral corner clock in the next couple weeks, and this pattern looks like it is gonna kinda sorta work. Thanks Clay and Clay.

Elton, Rock and rowel!! Another cool pair from the frozen northland. You're doing some good work up there. Looking forward to meeting you in person at Sheridan.

For books, the Stohlman series and the Harry Adams book. Both. 'For the videos, I like Jeremiah Watts best, then the Dale Harwood for a little more finesse deals. They don't give either of these away, but you should learn enough to pay for them both off the next one. Bill Gomer's set would be third set to buy. Save your money on Dusty Johnson's saddle set. Biggest thing with all of these is to remember this is how they do or did it. They all have their reasons, as do all of us here. Just look at the different ways to do cantles discussed here in the last couple days. Pick and choose what you like and what you are comfortable with. Probably very few of us do everything exactly like we did 10 years ago, but that is when some of these were made. Some things never change and some do.

Ok, in the same vein. I did get an external HD last weekend, and did my backup to that. My issue is that I am only using the laptop now. It means everytime I have added a new printer or camera, did the ipod deal, etc. I get more programs installed. Some of these programs are necessary, but others are yet another version of the world's simplest photoediting/converting to text/editing/making childbirth a pleasure bundled software. I am sure I can safely dump some of these but how do I know which one(s)? I am using 3 cameras and two printers. In the past I have copied a batch of pictures off to disks in the original sizes, and saved relevant ones in resized on this computer. This means my photog wife has 3 large binders of disks/thumbnail prints. I am thinking the HD will save some space by just transfering the large files over there? Third question. What about having 2 external HDs? One for all the picture files, and one for backups and important file savings? If I get another HD of exactly the same model, will I have to redo software for it too, or would the curent ext HD software recognise it? Yeah, Yeah. It is an HP laptop, Windows XP.

I have it scanned in how I do the leather covered picture frames. Looking back, there a few things I do differently, like not being able to use Caldwell-Moser leather. I no longer sew with 415 thread, and handsew very few of them. I have included this as well. It is in email format with jpeg attachments. The whole file size is a bit over 800 kb. If you are interested, send me a PM with your email address. I will try to get these out at least a couple times a day. Thanks for the compliments, these are one of those universal projects that works for a lot of different occasions.

Hilly, I haven't seen a book on these before. I did an article on these for the LCSJ in the Jul-Aug issue in 2000. I haven't really changed a whole lot technique-wise since the article. I mold leather over purchased wooden frames, and with my techniques of hand molding, can do about any size frame without making molds for each specific frame. I have done at least a couple hundred of them. When I was doing a lot of award orders, these were a pretty popular item. I have done plain basket stamped, basket/floral or oak corners, or basket and overlaid flowers or oak corners. If you don't have access to a backissue of the journal let me know. I can copy what I have. I'll attach some examples I have on the computer.

Ed, I don't think the Scharf-Fix will do that on any leather. Most handcrank splitters are 6" that I have used. I don't know of any that have an open side. Closest you are going to get is a bell knife skiver. Mine will do up to I think 2" with the guide fence. I have free handed some wider than that, it might take 6" off an edge in a few overlapping passes. If you just need to evensplit a 6" or a little better strip down, then a sharp blade and a Chase pattern splitter would be my choice. I have 8" and 10" Chase patterns, and they will do up to about 2" less than capacity without a lot of effort. Much wider than that, and you are looking at either a bandknife splitter or one of the new Artisan wide blade splitters they are coming out with.

Scouter, It is going to be interesting to see how others respond here. I had a conversation about this a week ago with a guy, who was havng the same problem, and mentioned it had stopped. I really have not recognised a problem with this. Here's what I do. I tape the backs with carton sealing tape. I really don't think what you do to secure it makes much of a difference. I wet my leather with the case solution of choice. I have used water, water/lexol/dish soap, ProCarve, and now use the lexol/baby shampoo formula shared here a while back. I wet my leather, and case it at least 8 hours but usually overnight at least. I seal it in plastic ziplocks, and those XXL huge storage ziplocks are a big help now. I leave enough air in the bags to keep the plastic off the grain side of the leather. Next morning I tool as normal. I have done the longer casing for several years, and have found no matter whose leather I was using, the effects were just better. What had changed with the guy who had the curling problem. He went from casing and tooling as soon as the leather returned "to color" or casing for an hour or two to casing overnight. The lexol/shampoo formula is not a quick case solution in my hands, and I told him I was overnighting it. He went back and tried some ProCarve and cased overnight, and said little or no curling too. We suspect that the casing level being equal through out the layers was the difference. If only the top layer is moist and it stretches slightly with tooling, then it stands to reason it is working against the bottom layer and curling over it. If the moisture is even, the compression is against the entire thickness. Some leather takes casing slower or faster than others. By giving it plenty of time, you minimize that effect.

I had heard when I was pretty young that the reason for the roll was to keep the rope from ridng up the cantle back when it got around behind and clotheslining the rider off. Anyone who has ever been there knows the feeling. I recall someone else (maybe Greg?) saying the same thing before the crash.

At the risk of starting yet another debate on the merits of the Boss, I'll respond. I had one and I liked it. It was my first powered machine, and I sewed quite few skirts on it. I have since replaced it with powered machines, but it will get the job done. I had one fo the cast iron frame ones, and some guys argue those are better than the aluminum. One thing about them, they hold the resale value. Tippman used go through a used one very reasonably, and will warrant it afterwards like new. Only downside is that they have a shallow throat. something like 6 or 8", but then the short arm powered machines are not much more than that.

Laura, The swells look more to me along the lines of Crosby or Campbell roper type tree. Not really an Association pattern. The low cantle and narrower Cheyenne roll suggests 1940s style, but that could go either way. I think I am seeing Al-Ray stirrup buckles. I am not sure how long they have been around, but know for sure they were around in at least the early 40s. I am striking out trying to match up any of the potential letter combinations on the worn makers stamp. At least the saddle and fender tooling matches. The fenders weren't scabbed off another saddle. The tooling pattern is pretty basic, and that style was used in several areas of the country. No real help there either. Sorry we aren't pinning down the maker for you. I have some feelers out, but nothing ringing any bells yet.

John, The SS nails are available from a few sources on the net. Biggest problem is that most are whloeslae sellers and have a minimum total order and a 5# minimum per size/style. Sheridan Leather Outfitters sells the nails by the pound. They have ring shank, twist shank, etc. in a couple lengths. I still use the #10 oval head phillips screws. I haven't gone to square drive heads so haven't looked for them. I get my phillips from the local hardware store.