bruce johnson

Ryan, When this topic was going precrash, I talked to a few guys who had listed using them on their website or I knew were using them. It kind of hit a few guys at once. Sounds like Dennis and Randy George got some of the last ones from Ben. When I went to order more, Brackney's number was not working. In talking to other guys, all anyone knew was that someone bought the rights from Ben, and nobody knew who. Word was they were going to use them for their own use, and not sell commercially. One guy is friends with someone at Circle Y, they used a bunch and apparently was not them that bought it. Leaves a few other players. I talked to Ben, hadn't talked to him in quite a while. He wouldn't or couldn't say who bought them. I am sure there is a confidentiality deal with the sale, and it may not have all gone through yet. I can respect that. It is not the end of the world for me. These buckles are good for what they do, but I made it without them before and the rock will still be spinning in the morning. It will eventually come out who has them, and I can't beleive they think exclusivity in a stirrup buckle is going to be key to their product sales.

Richard, I can't speak for the 3000 directly, haven't had one. I have had 5 machines though. When I got my first one, they told me to use hydraulic jack oil with a little bit of ProLong oil additive in it, both can be had at most auto parts stores. I hit a couple drops on all the red marked places. On mine there are a couple knuckles in the slot in the head cover I can hit too. I put a drop on my finger and wipe the bobbin case. Those round inspection plates cover oil spots on my machines. The holes on top are supposed to drip onto some of them, but why guess?? I open them up and hit them directly too. There is a bigger inspection plate on the back, and a few oil spots on cams and knuckles in there too. There are a couple behind the head cover that I hit too. I put a long tube (OK, it is a plastic urinary catheter) on my plastic oil bottle. It makes reaching these spots pinpoint. I do a "total oil" every other or third day under normal use. Heavy use - every day. The red spots and accessible points every day. I wipe the bobbin case every 5-6 bobbin changes. I use Ballistol to clean with, and then reoil as needed. If I am doing repairs, I clean afterward pretty religiously. You can clean leather beforehand, but there will still be some grit. Otherwise I clean weekly or so. The lube pot mounts on the top of the machine and the top thread goes through it. The lube is more to reduce friction heat on the needle and prevent the thread's bonding coat from sticking to the needle. Reduces some stitch skipping issues, especially with higher speed or harder leather.

Jordan, I haven't made a belt in 15 years that wasn't finished with either Supersheen or Feibing Leathersheen. I put the finish on - one good coat, let dry about 10-15 minutes, and then another. I then work the belt back and forth around a bend a little to soften it. Reading your post, I am seeing something, and if true. might be the cause. You used pro dye and an acrylic finish. Any type of oil after the dye? The dye will (in my experience) stiffen the grain and make it boardy, prone to cracking. Especially so if you used good firm leather to start with. The oil will replace the conditioning the dye took out or moved around. Some folks like Lexol, others Bick, others probably that chunk of orange fat off the top of canned chili, I know how my oil behaves in my leather. It just takes something to replace that conditioner after dyeing.

Ed, None commercially available I know of. Try having a die made and have them put a handle on it. Texas Custom Dies could probably do it.

Pete, About the piece of inner tube in one hand and the screwdriver in the other. Issue I had was once the force was applied to the screwdriver, and it happened to slip off those shallow worn screw slots, the blade will penetrate some distance into that hand holding the piece of inner tube. I am a slower learner, and have done this a few times. I have had some luck with a piece of inner tube on top of the bench and using that as a backing. It works a little better. If I don't care much about the concho, a vicegrip on the head and a little heat from a soldering iron on the screw can loosen them too. This little tool has a rubber head on one side, and a "forked" jaw on the other to surround the screw head. When you grip it, the rubber hold the post or concho, and the forked part relieves some of the bind on the screw head. When I first saw this thing adverised in ShopTalk or wherever it was, I told my wife I ought to get one. Ended up and put it off, finally saw the ebay listing and bought two, one for me and one for a gift. I have one of my first headstalls, and my late first wife used one of our old Garcia bits on it, and put some old Visalia conchos on it. Her family was one of those nail polish or iodine (corrosive) on the screw threads to secure them bunch. For a few years, I have kind of been wanting to retire this headgear, but wanted the bit on another headstall. The bit end conchos won't budge with anything I tried without risk. I got this tool, got a grip and gave a twist. First one backed right out. Other side was a bit harder, and I slipped. Since my left hand was gripping the pliers, no bleeding. Second twist got it. Yeah, this tool works. With the value of the conchos and bloodshed it saved, I am money ahead. Bottom line though, I couldn't bring myself to change it out and put the bit back on with those conchos. My first concern when I got it was that it was made from some space age plastic, not metal. After using, it should be. There is just enough flex, you won't scissor action your way through most leather as you grip harder. I don't use it on every concho or Chicago screw, but it fit the bill when I needed it so far. I have used it more than I expected.

Billy, Send me your mailing address and I will send you a sampler of several sizes and colors.

We have a few new folks here, and sounds like all of us have been bucked off. I want to start this thread to kind of tie up this topic in one place. Probably very few of us build many bronc saddles, unless the 7-10 guys that do are using aliases here. Some of us will see them for repairs though. I just want to have a thread dedicated to construction and repair of them when we do see them. Things like stiffener material for inside leathers, bind material (biothane, latigo, or harness?), is it doable for the average guy to "rod" a tree, should we rod a tree or is it time for a new one, replacing or reworking a ground seat, all leather or half strainer seat, rerigging to stay within the rules (which are a bit nebulous), that sort of thing. If we tend toward new construction, that's cool too.

I do them a few ways. It all depends on what the customer likes or what I feel like doing. Some guys just like treads with no linings. I spar varnish the exposed wood first. I saw some that Matt Plumlee did that just had a "tread-lining". The piece just covered the inside bottom, didn't wrap around or up the sides, and was skived out to a feather edge on each side. Tacked in with escutcheon pins. Other folks like a full lining. When I do those I use the escutcheon pins too. I have done a pair with a tread, but pinked the edges where they wrap around the edge of the stirrup at the bottom. Then put an escutcheon pin in each scallop into the edge. I predrill my escutcheon pin holes too. I hold the pin with a needle nose and not much point exposed to get it started, then slide the needle nose back to expose more pin until I can set it without bending it. I use a tack hammer to pound, and then a small ball peen to set the head once it is flush. I saw some little plastic nail holding gizmo at the hardware store that might hold them OK for pounding too. I place my pins maybe 2-2/12'' apart. Kind of whatever works to keep an even interval all the way around. I am not sure I would trust just glue, but it probably would do OK. How was Hamley's? Not sure who is there now, and who all is doing their work. When Monte was there, some portion of their work was done out of the shop.

Bob, Cleaning up some paperwork tonight and found a new flyer from Kaspar Wire Works. They have the J riggings listed, but not pictured on the flyer. Kaspar Wire Works - Shiner, TX. (361) 594-3327. If anyone calls them, first person who answers the phone generally won't have a clue what you are talking about, tell her you need to talk to the guy who deals with the horse stuff. Kaspar marks their work KWW. Some of the Texas folk are extremely loyal to them, others are "Pointer" men, there are "Seminoles", and I am sure other legions down there. I just have to keep some Kaspar stuff for a couple customers, and try to make sure it is installed so the "KWW" shows. It's OK stuff. I haven't had need for them to make dies, but some old guys like Kaspar for that too. Kaspar has been around over 100 years.

TC, Looks like a variation of a Crosby tree or something similar to that. Time frame is pretty open with no maker stamp on the saddle. The #1411 might mean something to someone. I have seen those safety pin stirrup buckles, but don't know a time frame for them either. Replacing the sheepskin is a little bit of an involved process. First off, you need to use barktanned sheepskins. They vary in quality size and price. Most all of the leather suppliers carry one kind or another. I like the LMs from Siegels. The color is a little more to the golden yellow shade. Probably an 11 ft skin would do those skirts. The right 10 footer might make it. There is controversy among makers how to align the sheepskins, and probably valid arguments for most ways. I put them with the bar area to the middle of the skin and the front of the skirt to the butt of the sheep. I use rubber cement to adhere them. Make sure there are no bubbles or wrinkles. I sew them on, and then trim the edges flush with the skirts. Then I take a set of clippers and bevel the wool back from the edges at about a 45 degree angle. Then I punch the lacing holes through the wool, lace them together and put them back on. If the saddle has strings I usually replace them just because. Likewise with lug/tug/uptugs/whatever you want to call the straps if you don't sew pockets or riggings to the skirts. Then renail or rescrew the gullets.

Greg, I was taught at the "Playtex 18 hour cross your heart bra school of amateur bronc riding". I'm getting old, that was 20 plus yrs ago??? Still seems like funny advice now, but I remember it. "Okay, Ladies, we are going to lift and separate". Lift and separate. LIFT up not back on whatever you got (rein or handle, although a nightlatch kind of fits a bit like a bronc rein) and SEPARATE your knees when you lift to get a deeper hold and slide you back down. Then there was all that bow your back/don't arch, you only grab to your knees, eyeball the spot 4" behind their ears (like I saw that very much), tuck your chin, don't squeeze your cheeks, and of course Dave Stamey's musical advice "Don't forget to stay loose!"

Kate, I really think that HideCrafters have a good chance to reinvent themselves again. I was a pretty early customer when they formed. They filled a niche by having a line of tools that were not available or limitedly available from George's previous employer. They had a choice of better quality wallet inserts, leathers, and better conchos and hardware. They had tutorials and books that were more than just from one source. Then as they progressed, they tried to be all things to everyone - cheaper tools, duplicate lines of tools, their own "house brand", low end hardware, and competing on things they just shouldn't have been. It was pretty frustrating to have pay for a wholesale club membership when I had a resale number already. Later on they rethought that policy. Then there were the supply issues at times, for various reasons. Everyone is worried about them cutting inventory. More power to the new guys, they should. Get rid of the dead wood - the poor quality lines that don't perform, and the stuff every craftstore, ebay store, and other suppliers sell at little margin. I have mixed feeling on dropping Ellis' tools but suspect that was Ellis' decision. It may not pay to inventory high end tools either though. By the time a guy gets to that level, we know Ellis's phone number or buy them at the show. Keep the suppliers happy. There is obviously room for a few players in this game. If they stock the good stuff that will move, listen to that customer base, and don't compete based on previous mistakes, I think they will do fine. The biggest issue right now seems to be the transition. In retropect, they may almost be better to shut down, retool and restock, come out with the catalog or site that says "here's what we will be selling" and then reopen. It would save a lot of the current frustration with products no longer carried, severe backorders, and shortages. Ron seems to be a decent guy when I talked with him. I really liked Andy. I know the new guys are all running their own businesses too. I hope they can keep a good staff in FW.

Ryan, The Cheaney videos are good. Especially basic about tools and equipment needed. They are a bit redundant from one to the next, but you could take any one set and get most of the basics. Jeremiah's are geared toward making a Wade, as is Bill Gomer's, and Dale Harwood's. So are several of the books. The basics are still there. The only thing they don't show is doing welted fork covers. Everything else pretty much transfers directly over. The post horns also give you some options for covering horns that a metal horn doesn't. Jeremiah's set tells you a lot of the "whys" the others don't. Harry Adams' book takes you through building a Wade, and drawing up your cutting patters based on the tree and not cookie cutter shapes. The second section covers a lot of variations like welted swells, different riggings, horn coverings, etc. Jason, There are a lot of schools for sure. I would agree that personal instruction is the way to fly too. I think that the OP related that they had little background. I think you need to have some "book knowledge" before going in. I also think you need some background in using a saddle too. That will give you a foundation for what is being explained and demonstrated. Everybody does it differently. You have to pick and choose what works for you from everybody. Kind of like learning surgery, you don't pick up a scalpel and go to cutting. Likewise you don't read and look at videos and they turn you loose on the public. With a bit of a knowledge base, and then practical instruction and supervision, things go better. One thing for sure is I wouldn't go into a school and say "That's not how _____ ________ did it in the video or book". You are there to learn another way of skinning the cat. When you get home, try new methods, and then pick what works for you.

Kate, I bought some of the early SS ones and found them to be amazingly like some I have from another maker. Good stamps to start with and a value. Regarding the dark ones...I had several. They look really nice, and give a decent impression. Nice prices too. I bent them. I broke them, some just snapped. A friend who gave me his freebie from a LCSJ subscription prize as an example. Phone calls revealed no problems with them. Emails ditto. Finally after a few more and photo of them in their stages of manglement, I was told they did have some problems. The explanation was that they were not for professional use. Apparently a guy who stamps a lot with a 16 and 24 oz maul will damage them, and an amateur won't. My wife damaged one, so maybe that explanation is a bit off too. These are the only stamps I have ever had fail. Finally (after they saw I had a photo to share with their name clearly in focus), they told me to box up what I had left and ship them back for credit. Make sure you have duplicate backups. Nothing more frustrating than to get about halfway down a belt and have to either toss it or finish it with a stamp with a jagged 2" shank. Hopefully everyone else's mileage is better.

Andrew, They don't make them anymore, but still fix them. They are just OK, but there are other machines that get the job done. I tried one, and found speed control to be an issue. You can control it, but by dialing it mostly. Servo motors on electrin machines have more control and range.

Darcy, That strap contrary to some popular doesn't look to me like it will "connect and stabilize" the pull from the cinches. Basically the pull is straight down on both rings and that strap won't transfer stress. What it will do is make a ramp and fill in behind the front ring to help your stirrup leather slide up and over it. Some patterns have a tab that extends up and covers the corner, others are just a flat strap. I put them on every regular Dee rigging like that. I have had ropers wear them out, and not the kind of guys who fix much. They bring them to replace that strap after they hang a leather in it trying to face.

Kate, A few experiences. You need to use your favorite method to limit stretch obviously. For things that really need to fit tight. I cut them oversize and mark out my tooling area. Tool it, let it dry thoroughly and then cut it out. For something like that, I would make my first cut 1/8-3/16" oversized for the inlay area. See if it will work in and compress. If not, trim a skoche (sp?) off and try again. As you have already found, it will compress more than it will stretch. Especially for inlays, this works the best for me.

Art, We actually have a couple threads going on these buckles right now. I replied about I use them in the "Hardware&Accessories" section under "Need Saddle Hardware quickchange buckles". Probably a moderater with more technical skills than me should merge these posts and move them to the "saddle section". I'll get a lesson on that and try it. Johanna tells me I can't break anything, but I do actually have a broken bench anvil I could post a picture of.

Doug, Nope, not too bulky. The advantages are they are shorter lengthwise than a coupled Blevins with the sleeve. The shorter length lets them twist easier, good for short legged riders. The round rod rides over a latigo easier than a Blevins slide. Especially a Blevins slide that is worn a bit and that metal corner is sticking out. They are quickly changed. Disadvantge is that you need to make a keeper to put below the buckle to keep the bottom pin in the leather or it hinges from the hook on top. I think the ad said they were good for twisted stirrup leathers, they are not. My happiest customers with them are barrel racers. They are shorter legged riders, and compete at a high level. They have given them acid test, and I am hanging onto what I have for them. When I first got them, I changed out buckles on some flagging and grand entry saddles for a contracter too. They work good for that. No slide to drop off into the mud when you are doing a quick arena change.

Doug, The Fast Buckles are on the left side of the picture. The top post is a hook and the bottom is straight. The Superior buckle is one the right of the picture and both pins are straight. I am pretty sure the ad as I recall was for the Fast Buckles. The Superiors have been around by another name (Kreager) since before Blevins I recall. I answered this on your other thread, but the Fast Buckles are not commercially available anymore. The Superiors are still available.

Doug, Just a point of clarification. I think you are describing the Superior Quick Change buckles that Sonny Felkins is making. A post set up and a flat strap on the other side you lock the pins into? If so that is made by Sonny Felkins in Monticello, UT. Sheridan Leather Outfitters is where I got my last ones from. Weavers did have them in the catalog, not sure if they still do. The Fast Buckles were made by/for Ben Veach. They were a made from round rod. They had a hook for the top post and a straight post below that. You need to use a keeper to keep the bottom pin in there? If that is what you are looking for - bad news. Ben sold the rights to someone who has still not come forward that I have heard. I used a fair amount of them, good for some uses. I asked Ben, and he would not or could not say who bought the rights, and whether they would ever be available for sale to makers again. I know Circle Y used a lot of them on some saddles, but according to someone who knew a guy high up there, they were not the buyers. Leaves a few other potentials, but again - no word who.

JRedding, Nice work, welcome to the board. Looking forward to more of your work.

Greg, Try the LM shearlings first. I used to be a Lazy M user. When I went to visit Siegels a a little over a year ago, I took a swatch of Lazy M to see if Steve could get something close. He got in the LMs a month or so later. The wool color is more the golden traditional color, not as orange as the Lazy M. The actual leather is pretty thick also. Wool density and length seems better too. I have had people who have no clue feel both and tell me which feels denser. About 3 to 1 for Steve's. I had about 10 Lazy M's when Steve got in the LMs. I have been using them up on the relines, and using the LMs on the new ones. If you want a swatch, let me know.

Ron, Good question. Prior to cyber meltdown last week, we had a pretty thorough section of lively discussion on books, videos, and other resources. It will be back. In my short list in no particular order. The Stohlman series of books are good and thorough. You need them all, if for no other reason than a wide knowledge base to build on. Those books are not the end all, and Al Stohlman was A saddlemaker, not THE saddlemaker. Saddle Makers Shop Manual is my go-to printed resource. Lot of variations, but assumes a working knowledge. Videos - Jeremiah Watt series is necessary to me. About as complete as it gets. Bill Gomer has one a little more abbreviated, but good points and a few tricks. Dale Harwood has a good one too. You couldn't build one from Dale's, but once you have built a few, your next one will be a lot better after watching this one. As far as schools ????? I think you could learn how to build a saddle just like the guy you learn from teaches. The more background you have going in, the more you will learn what you don't know. Philosophy now. I think a saddlemaker has to have a definite and personal experience with the type of purpose you are building a saddle for. You have to know the "whys" first before you can do the "hows". Seat shape is critical for optimum performance, which is not always the same as rider comfort. Stirrup swing, rigging types and advantages of different styles all play into the mechanics of the top side. Fit, rigging style and position play into the bottom side. The good news, there are probably more instructional opportunities now than ever before building saddles. Everything from books, videos, schools of different lengths, classes at several leather trade shows now, and saddlemakers talking. You are in a good place right here.

Art, For everyone who has not heard the term, a "nightlatch" is something to grab onto to prevent getting bucked off. Basically something to lift against to keep you down in your saddle. As an aside, unless that guy is left handed, or reins with his right hand for some other reason, a nightlatch should be on the right side of the swells. I am not sure how that one is fastened. Some people use a loose strap buckled through the gullet. You grab it kind of like a suitcase handle. I have heard it termed a "knucklebuster night latch". as the horse is pitching his little fit, your knuckles are banging on the swells. Another style is a doubled pigging string with thetail pulled out of the eye. Double it and feed it through the gullet. Then bring the eye and the tail up through the formed loop. You grab the free ends of the string. Other guys use a similar one made from a rope or braided rope witrh a small eye. Looped aroungd the gullet and fed through the eye. Some guys feel that the firm attachment of the knucklebuster could be an issue if you do hang up a spur or toe in it on the way out. The single eye rope, or doubled string is thought to be safer, it will pull loose. Most guys are carrying a couple strings, so it is a handy place to carry one anyway. Other guys dispense with the nightlatch and pull on the rope coils. All in what you are carrying, and where you learned it at. Greg, Ryan, and some of the guys who have been around have probably seen other variations or terms.