bruce johnson

Tim, I don't have a set price. It ranges from $300 on up depending on a few things. If they have lugs and a simple lace pattern then it tends to be the $300 or so range. If the lace pattern is more complex - more time = more money, usually another $25 - $50. If they have pocketed bars, then they have to be sewn back. That adds another $75 or so. Usually that stitching is pretty old anyway, so I resew all the stitch lines by hand. I can pretty well give an estimate based on eyeballing these things. The wild cards I hold out and let them know about are the plugs. If the skirts are curled or the plugs are shrunk back from the edge, they will need to be replaced to sew back. The skirts might need to be wet, flattened, dried and reconditioned before you plug them back. Add in the cost of the plugs and that can tack on another $100 plus easy enough. Most of the time I replace strings on saddles with them when I reline too. A few tips I have been given and pass along. Before you try to pull the woolskin, take a stitching groover and run it over the top stitching a couple times. That will weaken it enough that when you pull the woolskin, the stitches will pull through with the woolskin and there should be very few left to pick. The loop blade type groovers or a freehand stitch groover ("gum tool")work well for this. Picking stitches is a pain. Another tip is to resew with a round needle, old guys (generally wise) tell me it will follow the old needle hole better than a chisel point needle.

Brent, Likewise my condolences on the loss of your lime tree. I understand the obligatory use in gin and tonics and squeezed over carne asada and carnitas. I also have found that two or three wedges squeezed and dropped into a Sprite will make a limeade similar to Sonic, except I can actually make a good burger to go with it. The guy I talked to that buffed the seat said he used a Black and Decker sander with the triangular head thing. Said it was just the ticket for the points and edges.

First off, Brent you need to post a picture. We don't see enough pictures of your work. Glad to see you have wintered well. As far as the seat, other than the buffing you suggested, I am not sure of much else to do. I have seen a couple slick seats where they outlined a smooth out seat in the shape where you'd lay an inlay. There was a bead line around it to make it look like it belonged there and then buffed inside that line. It looked pretty cool I thought. When it burnishes up and slicks, just buff it again. A bronc saddle maker told me they get more mileage out of swells by making them smooth out and buffing than roughout.

Knife Knut, Thanks for resurrecting this post and the link. I would appreciate your thoughts on a middle ground. When I worked in the packing plant, I had a smooth steel and another smooth steel we used wet/dry to put some minor grooves in. It was not nearly as aggressive as the grooved ones commercially available. On my straight knives I use a steel sometimes. I have never really found a comfortable or effective stroke with a round knife and usually strop or use a hard felt wheel on those.

Troy, Was sewing the woolskin on by hand as much fun for you as my first couple were? Made me appreciate a machine more when I got it. Now I even cringe when I have to resew pocketed bars or riggings. Joel, I am going to agree with everyone who said woolskins help hold blankets. I am sure historically they got started because they were the best source of cushioning available too. I rode a saddle back in the day called an "Innovater". It had a slick bottom and that was the era of the carpet pads. Might have been the tree, rigging, the pad, or the horse but it rolled all over and nothing stayed in place. This was western pleasure show ring stuff. You hear about the cavalry guys dismounting, airing the back, resetting blankets, and leading a mile every so many too. Makes me sort of wonder how those saddles really worked.

Chris, I don't see a Randall Krebs on ebay, what's the link? The CSO looks like some things are not there. Topcat, It sounds like if you are paying top dollar, you know what you are looking for and want a really good one. Darcy gave you a connection to a reputable source. A couple other sources who refurbish and will tell you the straight scoop on what they have are Bob Douglas (307 737-2222) and Keith Pommer (605 372-4523).

Thanks for the tips, but in my case I need both accounts. I carry my laptop to work and my wife does her computer time at home in the afternoon. It is worth it for the frustration factor she was dealing with. Other than an occasional bouquet, best money I've spent in a while.

Philip, If they are telling you that you have to have wholesale license, that makes me think it is a Horseshoe Brand (Jeremiah Watt) stamp from Weavers. If so - you can order directly from Jeremiah Watt without the wholesale number. Here is his website and link to his contact info - Jeremiah Watt/Horseshoe Brand tools .

If you're looking for diamonds in the rough, pretty much most of the desirable makers mark(ed) their stamps other than some McMillens. The Craftools are far and away the most common finds in estate and yard sales for the reason they sell/sold the most. Other ones are CraftJapan and some other Asian stamps. I have some that are sure good ones. Other ones to look for are McMillens (may or may not be marked), Hackbarth, Don King, Woodruff, Russell, Fay, and a few more oldies whose names escape me. Newer makers are Gore, Barry King, Wayne Jueschke, Bob Beard, Check Smith, and some other new makers. It is sure possible to find these in estate sales from someone. Every once in a while you will hear about someone finding a big set of good old tools someplace. About any of the good ones will bring $15 and the right ones up to $150. That just comes from seeing them and getting a feel for what is desirable and what someone else will pay.

Ann, I've done a few of these replacements. As far as the buckstitching. Once you fit up the binding you can mark your line and then take it off and punch the slits and lace it before the final assembly. Even if it originally went through the seat leather, your stitch line will catch it anyway. I start with my binding being about 8 oz or so. I leave it full back to the area where the rope will start to be formed and then skive it down to about 5 oz or so. I form it in tight to the depressions between the ropes. I start with my fingers and finish with a tool to really seat it. My favorite tool for the this is a deer antler spike. I punch my lacing slits when it is pretty dry and then pull it down tight.

What I was trying to say in that post was there is a sweat pattern with the cinch sweat pattern laying directly behind the elbow. The saddle is sitting about maybe 4" behind where that sweat pattern is. Where the saddle is sitting now (uncinched) is where I would probably place it and pull it to start with. JW pointed out what I thought I was seeing too. The swell fork rigging appears to be more forward of what I would call a full double. The swell fork saddle is cinched down in that same place right behind the elbow. Because the rigging on that one is more forward on the tree, the bar tips are back off the shoulders. If you place a 3/4 rigged saddle with the cinch in the same place as the full, there is going to be more bar in front of that, and that appears to be up over the shoulders or at least into them.

Huntet, From your earlier reply, Nope wasn't me who said you had mule bars. I didn't see that reply. I think the fact that you can feel something on one side and not the other, you have a nice picture of a single dry spot corresponding to that area, and you have already shared it with 9000 people might sort of get their attention. I would think Teskeys would at least want to see it. I understand them not wanting to carte blanche give a full refund, but I'd think they might want to at least fix it if there is a problem. Edit - Now that these pictures are up, I see some placement things I'd probably do differently too. I think that saddle appears to be sitting too far forward in some of the pictures. Where I expect the bar tips to be on that swell fork is a few inches behind where I expect they are with the Wade in some of those pictures. There is one picture (3rd one)that shows a sweat pattern where the saddle is sitting what appears to behind that about the width of the cinch. It looks like that is about where the saddle wants to settle, but again your hands are on it and we are looking at pictures. Sometimes the pictures when they are moving can make things look like they are sitting differently in different phases of a stride too. Again though, if one side of the saddle is different underneath than the other, that needs to be addressed.

Under that area from your description, it might be the gullet liner wasn't skived very well on that side or a skirt plug isn't fit in there right. That can leave a ridge, and I've seen better than a $1395 Teskey that had one side skived and one not. If it is something you can feel on one side and not the other, that would be reason enough to send it back I'd think. If it is yours now, somebody will need to drop the skirts and see what is causing whatever you are feeling. As the wool packs, it will be a bigger problem.

Another thing I am wondering is a 1-1/2 pad is pretty thick and with new woolskin over that, the saddle may not be pulling down as much either.

I recently had the opportunity to buy an old stitching horse from the original owner’s grandson. I got it yesterday and put it back together. The original owner was Charles Collins. Mr. Collins was born in Texas in 1879 and moved 1895. He worked for several of the top saddle shops of the day – DE Walker (Of Visalia fame), PB Lady, Frazier, Frank Meanea, Victor Marden, Jepson, and Burkhard and Son. These were the real top tier shops and innovators of the times. He opened his own shop in Globe, AZ in 1914. He moved to Prescott in 1936, and back to Globe in 1941. He continued the shop there until at least 1956. He died in 1962 and according to his grandson was building right up to the end. . In a few places I have read he was described as an authority on cowboy history and lore – another of my interests. It is written that he was friends with Zane Grey. He bought the ranch that Zane Grey’s cabin was on, but did not personally know him. He did correspond with J Frank Dobie, Ross Santee, and Walt Coburn. I got the stitching horse yesterday and got it put back together. It is rock solid, and works well. My other horse is a left footer, so this one will take a little getting used to. It is a little higher and the contour and shape of the seat is a dead-on perfect fit. I am proud and honored to have it.

Paul Krause or one of the other bootmakers might have a better idea than me. I have seen similar tools in shops that boot makers used to cut and rasp pegs inside shoes and boots from pegged construction.

Ross, For intermediate priced tools, Barry King. Here's a link - Barry King Tools I would tend to go for one of the larger sizes of beads. I think they are easier to learn with and more distinctive. I had a set of smaller ones. To be honest, after I finished you almost had to use a lens to see if it was bargrounded. From any distance it just looked matted. Best instructions for using them is probably "Sheridan Style Carving". Several leather suplliers sell that book.

Luke, I have good feedback from customers with the chrome elk I have put on for them.

It probably depends on which type edger you prefer. I had a set of Ron's round bottom edgers and they were good. My regular users are the bisonettes from Bob Douglas. I have a bisonette from Barry King too. I'd think a 2, 3, and maybe a 4 from Bob or Barry would cover your bases, plus a bent edger for slots.

Ryan, Thanks for the info. Both of the ones I have now are Rex 27s and I haven't run across any with the 6 point anvils. Then again they have been with old groups of tools sold as a lot. I'll get a 6 point to fill out an order so I can have that setup next time I order. Another question on the mechanical side. I had never really done any checking into the Rex 27. Last night I ran across a Model T forum and a few other places that they talked about the Rex 27 being used for brakes. On one forum they were using them for the old Ford tractors too - 8N, 9N, and some others. Did Rex have a different riveter design for brakes back in the day, and now they are making do with the 27?

Mark, Good job with that rope stamp and the pattern of the headstall and straps. I like that untwisted look down low.

Ryan, The anvils on both of the riveters I have now just have the center post and the trough all the way around. When I try to set the self piercing tubular rivets, they pierce alright. The problem is that they will roll a little bit into the trough, kind of like a an eyelet but not that much of a rim. It doesn't split the clinch at all. Sound right? Or are there rivets that are scored or something to split and I had "rollers" instead of "splitters"? About the only time I use these are a repair on something that the other rivets are split into the six legs that roll and clinch. I stick the tubular rivet into the Rex and press just enough for it penetrate the leather. Then I take it out and split and finish it with the hand tool that splits the tube on an anvil. I can punch a hole and just use the handtool, but I don't have that little plug of leather in the pivet center and it looks odd.

I have never seen a manual for any of the old splitters, but I've had a few Krebs style. There are a several of us on here with them, so we can probably figure out most of the common things.

Kate, I have a couple of them sitting around here. An old guy told me that they originally were mostly used for auto repair. They were used to rivet the replacement bands into the brake systems of old Fords about 90 years ago. They had a tubular rivet setup and you dropped the rivet into the spring loaded tube on the bottom. Push the handle and it set the rivet against the splash on top. That would explain why they are so common, this was almost a DIY project back in the day apparently and about everybody had one. I have never pursued it, but a while back someone mentioned you might can get get a top anvil from Beilers that will split the rivet into the six part star. I have started the tubular rivets with the Rex, and then finished them off with the hand tool that makes the star. It worked OK for no more of those than I do.

Good Picture Josh. Last night we drove down to Visalia and saw Dave. I'd have to say one of the best times we have seen him. A great mix of songs, he did "West of Laramie" for me (again), and trotted out several new songs. There are some good ones in the pipeline.