kseidel

Can you post a picture of your pattern? It looks like the pattern may not have the proper curve to make it roll over naturally. This can result in your having to fight it.

Kangaroo does not come in much variety of weights. It does, however, come in different tannages and finishes. I recommend vega tanned and finished weight will be about 1½ - 2 oz.

Nice job on your swell covers Bob. Your laced welt is a good example of lacing a bit too high. Stopping a hole or two lower would help the welt follow the swell profile more smoothly. No offense intended!

You can put your welt anywhere that you want I've even seen a Visalia with the welt on the back in the leg cut! As far as height, you can go higher than the purple line, even as high as a hole above the green line. Just keep it below the top line if the swell. The thicker the lace, the more it will stick out and interrupt the profile of the swell. Rawhide as shown in your pic is thin and can be pounded flat. Latigo has to be thicker to retain strength, and cannot be pounded as flat. That is why I recommended kangaroo, as it is very thin and very strong. It will not add a thick bump at your welt. Remember, the lace is not just on the outside, but underneath as well. This magnifies the bump created with a lace welt. Kangaroo will also wear much better than latigo.

Thanks for the pics Big Souix. It is amazing what master saddlemakers from the turn of the last century were doing with saddles. This is proof that wide undercut swells can be covered without a welt if the craftsman is skilled enough! I have sweated a no welt cover on a 15" low moose swell, but that is the most radical that I have tried without welts. Most of the vintage saddles that I have restored with "bear trap" swells have had welts or blind stitches. Not many like this one without welts.

Guess I missed your last post Billy, That saddle is really hard to put together. After it is all assembled, I got someone to help me hold it and stitched around it with a machine. I had to hand stitch about an inch or so at the front where the skirts meet the swell, and around the rear rigging slots. Everything else is machine stitched. Keith

rkktaylor, Will James swells over 12" can be difficult of not impossible to cover without welts, depending on treemaker and rigging. It is difficult to do a smooth laced welt. They tend to be bulky. Best advise would be to use kangaroo lace and use care not to get too high up on your swell. You don't want the lace to stick up and be the highest part on the swell. Stretch and mould the leather down over the swell so that the welt does not need to be cut up too high. Good luck. Keith

Adam, I'm sure Billy will get the most out of this conversation, however, I also know that lots of guys have questions that they don't ask. So I try to make these posts as thorough as possible so they will have as much impact as possible. I hope there is something positive for everyone reading. Thanks for your input. Keith

Hope all is profitable at the stock show Billy. I've been at several shows myself recently and so slow to reply also. Leaving again Sunday for Elko. Haven't been there in 20 years. A block plane is a woodworking tool I have re-appropriated for leather work. I like the small ones that fit in the palm of your hand. I turn the blade over so its angle is parallel with the face, and sharpen it to a fine smooth edge. It works well for evening out long curves and trueing edges smooth and square before edging. I use it for skirts, horns, cantles, and fenders, and many other items. You can get one at most hardware stores. Link to block plane. The one in the link is my personal favorite. It would be difficult to do really clean leatherwork without one of these. I like to be 5.5-6.5 inches benind the cantle with my skirt length in general, however, I am much more interested in the overall look and balance of the saddle than with the specifeic dimmension. I see too many craftsmen who are married to dimensions like they are universal rules, when they are just references. Your depth to length balance is nice on this saddle. Your rear rigging is in the correct place, and your jockey is deep enough. I just note that the curve is not smooth and it comes to an abrupt corner just behind the rigging, where it comes straight along the bottom. I submit that it does not need to come straight at that point, but should follow the curve farther... maybe untill it reaches the middle of the billet. It should not be deeper or cover the billlet, just re-draw the curve to be smooth and not have the abrupt corner. Your customer for this saddle makes the fender more of a challenge. His leg length is another reason for making the seat side jockey shallower. In a case like this, I will calculate length that the fender needs to be, and sketch it on a larger piece of paper or cardboard and, while fitting the rest of the saddle, draw the fender shape to compliment the rest of the saddle's shape. I make a more rounded fender for round skirts, and a straighter more squared fender for square skirts. Fender shape can greatly affect the overall look of the saddle, so I adjust it while fitting the entire saddle. These perameters were challenging for sure! Hope all of these thoughts are helpful to you. I would love to see more of your saddles in the future, as would we all, I'm sure. Best wishes, Keith

You can build the structure square. Build up the top with felt or foam or rubber or whatever you like to make a place for the tree to sit that will be horse level. You will need to experiment with your trees and several horses to get a baseline for the level. Keith

Reid, There are screws under the conchos, but they do not hold the rigging in place. The fitting of the parts and the shaping of the leather over the fork ensure that the rigging will not move. The rigging is part of the swell cover, seat, and skirts. This is all stitched to a skirt fitted under the tree. This skirt is nailed and screwed under the gullet, both front and under cantle. There is no way for this saddle to come apart! It would hold up to the most extreme demands. Keith

BillyH, I found your saddle and pasted a copy of the pic here to reference. This is a good looking saddle and more difficult to critique. Overall general appearance is very good. So my evaluations will have to be more specific and may seem trivial to some. It is the little things that make the difference at this level of craftsmanship. Overall proportions are pretty balanced, however, with this style of swell, I would like to see a little longer skirt out behind the cantle... a little more length to depth proportion to compliment the swell thickness. I like the relationship of front depth and back depth... looks like it should sit fairly level on the mule. The one thing that jumps out to me is the depth and shape of the seat side jockey. I would like it to be much shorter, maybe 1.5" or more shorter. I do not like to see a seat drop below the skirt, and usually prefer it above the skirt line. This would change the shape some, and I would then make it a little more oval shaped. Extending the front curve under the concho and back cutting to the concho. You have the beginning of this at the back. Just emphasize this more. You can see this shape by studying pics of old Visallia and Frazier saddles. This one thing will change the look of this saddle a lot. Your front jockey top line should line up with the seat top line coming into the concho. The conchos should not extend past the seat, unless they completely cover the ears. Plan ahead for the size of your conchos. This goes for front and rear. Rear jockey space from skirt in the rear is good, but jockey line makes an abrupt curve just behind rear rigging. It should follow a smooth curve all the way under the seat, gradually widening the space between skirt and jockey. Edge lines of skirts and jockeys and fenders are not perfectly smooth. Use of a block plane will help smoothing out those cuts. Fender shape does not compliment skirt shape. A fuller and deeper back corner cutting up to the fender tail would be more complimentary. Here is a little more advanced suggestion... lighting indicates that the seat is a bit narrow relative to the width of the rigging. I always put my riggings in before ground seats so that I can shape the seat to achieve equal presure from thigh to knee. If the seat is narrower than the rigging, then the thighs cannot grip the saddle, and the knees will rub, causing abrasions and open sores. A narrow seat is desireable, but it cannot be narrower than the horse. In this case, the rigging becomes the widest point, and must be considered when shaping the seat. The balance of your seat looks good, with a comfortable top line, and dish. Your cheyenne roll cantle binding looks good, but a bit flat. More downward slope would better compliment the angles of this saddle. Width is fine. Corner could be more rounded into seat. This turned out to be a long evaluation! It is just my opinion and how I see things. I like your saddle and only offer my opinions to give you ( and others) variations to consider. Respectfully, Keith Seidel

Billy, Sorry for the delay in reply. I have been busy getting ready for cowboy christmans in vegas next week. The only saddle pic that I can find that you posted is of your first saddle that you made for your dad. Do you have a more recent saddle that you would like advise on? Yes, I was awarded the Saddlemaker of the year for 2012 by the academy of western artists. I have been nominated for many years and always get beat by someone much older! It was a great honor for me to receive this award. Thanks for the compliment. Keith

Ha Ha! Most people don't recognize the "discard" factor! Surprisingly enough, I did get it correct the first time. This is the second saddle that I have made like this. The first was nerve wracking to say the least. While tooling, the leather stretched more than expected, and I did not think it was going to go back on right. Not only the cost of a side of leather, but all that time tooling. Fortunately, it did dry down tight. This time it was not quite so intimidating. I learned some things to look out for on the first one, and that helped with this one. Well, it is a trick to fitting it up. First I blocked the skirts into place, and then began fitting the top piece. I began at the cantle, cutting out a hole that fit around the cantle back, and then cut some relief in the center of the seat. I then was able to pull a lot of slack into the center of the seat. There is still a significant amount of stretching and swea... sweating, yea thats it sweating. The hardest part is tucking the cantle binding under the "seat" on each side. There is no slack once the inlaid seat is all stitched to the dish of the seat and installed into the tree, since it is also a part of the skirts and jockeys. I sure don't recommend it for a novice maker! Thanks for all the compliments. I appreciate your looking at my saddle. Keith

I haven't posted in some time and thought it was time to post pics of my latest invention in the saddle world. The entire top of this saddle is molded and shaped from a single piece of leather without splits or seams. Swell, seat, rigging, and skirts are all incorporated into a single piece. This is one of the most dificult saddles I have ever made.

Oil and finish it properly and your spots should blend with the rest of the color. If you really want to get the spots out, corn starch will absorb the oil. Leave it on several days then brush away excess. Keith

Im not sure I understand your question/problem. Based on the pic you posted, it looks like a functional handhole area. You have blended the leather with the swells on the top side, and the hole looks large enough and proper shape. So you may be worried over nothing. You may want to post more pics showing exactly where your concerned about for a better analysis. Keith

Aurelie, That weird shape at the back of the swell is the "leg cut." It is intended to allow the rider to sit closer to the swell and for the leg to get a grip under the swell as needed. If you so not want it, you can fill it in with leather. I prefer to cover swells like that without welts, just sweating the swell cover and shaping it to the swell. The more under cut, the more difficult this can be. You can put a welt following the edge of the leg cut, or pull excess leather around from the back to the front, and put a welt in the front. Either all molded or with a welt, you should be able to get this swell covered without too much trouble. The welt will be easier. Keith

One thing to consider is the commitment to your leather work. Most projects take longer than we expect and we are usually too dedicated to finishing the project. Breaking it down into steps that can be finished in the time you have is pretty important. If you do not have enough time to do a step from start to finish, sometimes it is best not to start at that time. Be conscious of the time that you need to commit to that particular step and honor the commitment. To answer your question more specifically, When you case up the entire belt, you should be able to cut in the entire pattern. Then you can work on a section at a time without negative effect. It does not matter so much weather you do all of the steps on a small section, or do one step on the entire belt (or as much as you can with time allotted), what does matter is the temper of the leather must be right for the tool you are using. Example: beveling can be done wetter than background. If the leather is too wet to move to the next tool on the section that you are working on, it would be better to move down the belt, than progressing to the next tool. There are no real rules, but the temper of the leather dictates what can be done. The varying temper of the leather will make the start and stop points more obvious, so be very aware of this when stamping smaller sections. Hope this helps to answer your question. Keith

Randle, Keeping leather cased in a plastic bag works well for several days. The refrigerator will slow mold growth, but will not prevent it. The real complication comes when re-wetting. It is important to keep the temper even throughout the leather, not too wet in the center and dry on the surface or vice versa. Sweating your leather in plastic promotes uniform moisture content throughout the entire thickness of the leather. When removing from the plastic, the surface will dry rapidly. However the core of the leather will still have proper temper. You want to re-wet only the surface as necessary. The core will maintain its temper for quite some time. After the leather is carved, it is best to re-wet with a sprayed mist. This will wet the surface without getting the water deep into the core. When using a sponge, the raised cuts strip more water from the sponge and deposit it directly into the core where you do not need more moisture. This also takes much longer to dry back and by then the surface is too dry again. So use a sprayer for re-wetting after your leather is carved. I prefer a pump up pressure sprayer that delivers a uniform mist. Wetting from the back side does not work well. It over saturates your core and makes your tooling shallow and have a mushy feeling. It also promotes stretching. Case your leather however you like; once you have carved the leather, re-wet with a sprayer as necessary. Store in plastic and again use the sprayer lightly on the surface when resuming your work. Regards, Keith

Thanks Ty. I appreciate the complement. Keith

Thanks Adam! I'm saving that for future reference.

Hey Lonnie! That was 18 or 19 years ago! Great to hear from you! I still see Hutch a couple of times a year. Guess our paths do not cross. Hope all is well in the boot making arena for you. Keith

Sorry to be so long to reply, computer went down. I never punch holes with a diamond awl lining up the long points. This makes the stitch much weaker, and more prone to separation. You can make very close stitches on the diagonal that are much stronger than widely spaced stitches straight. If you want the stitch to look straight and not angled, use bigger thread and smaller holes. The thread will fill up the hole entirely and look straight. Respectfully, Keith

I have done this and it does work much better than rubber cement alone. Might be the best of both methods. Keith