Echo4V

Beautiful...that's all I can say. David

I had a similar issue with a walking horse that had exactly the back profile you are describing. I took 1 and 1/2 inch thick felt pad and cut out the shape of the bars from it. Then I sewed these to the top of a cheap cut back saddle pad and put my saddle on top of that. ( One trick is to use spray glue to attach the pads at first so that you can unstick them and replace them till you get them in the right place then sew them down) I used that pad to ride her for a few months until she developed a rounder back that would fit a saddle without needing the extra build ups. Hope this helps David

I wouldn't presume to say which you should buy but I'll give you a list of the handguns that I see often here in Georgia. 1911's and 1911 clones are very popular as well as glocks and glock type pistols. After that I see a lot of S&W autos and then the revolvers, I tend to see mostly the S&W full frame revolvers and single action pistols more than any other revolvers. Occasionally I see some smaller snub nose "saturday night special" type pistols but I hardly ever see them in holsters. Hope this helps.

I have been riding gaited horses ( of several breeds) my whole life and with very few exceptions a properly fitting saddle is a properly fitting saddle. I have never rode an Icelandic horse but the rest of the gaited horses I have ridden never required a gaited saddle, the saddle just had to be suitable for the horse's back. Usually a "semi qtr horse" saddle with a deep gullet will do the job as well as a "gaited" saddle. I have ridden several types of gaited saddles also and I among the breeds I've ridden they have interchanged nicely. If you're really worried you can always get one of those english cutback saddles, anything will ride in them. Hope this helps David

Now that you have explained them they make sense. I didn't even notice the bottom back ds until you mentioned them. I like the idea that it can be converted into a backpack and that things can be lashed to the bottom, that would be a great place for a coat on those cold morning hot afternoon kinda days. Now I'm even more impressed with your bags.

Again, it's a good thing to have a horse used to but I've never seen a real need for a breast collar. I understand that people who rope a lot like them (but I don't rope). I do have one and I use it regularly but, only because it was a gift and I'd hate to hurt the gift giver's feelings. It is hung loosely and, even in back country mountain climbing type riding, it doesn't tighten up so I don't see it as a necessary item but they do look good.

The only reason I have used a back cinch is because it's one more thing I can get a horse used to for the owner. As I've said I'm not a roper but I do train a few horses and when I do I try to get them used to anything I can think of so I ride a back cinch most of the time but as for an actual use for it I haven't really had one.

Just so you folks know it's not just your generation, I'm only 28, my favorite shows growing up were wagon train, gunsmoke, the rifleman and the lone ranger. I bet I've seen every movie the Duke was in. I'm with rdb on Randolph Scott being one of the best but I like to watch Audey Murphy too. It's a shame that these are not the mainstream tv series anymore. I have a 7month old and I wish he could grow up with them like I did, I guess we'll be paying for the westerns channel so that he can at least see some of them. David

These bags are awesome, I've seen a couple of others you have done and they are all great. I just have one question...what are the extra d rings for? Do you just put them on because or do you put them on at customer request? I also really like the color on this one, it has that old saddle leather look to it.

Timbo, I thought that britchen was pretty popular in Colorado(at least that's what I was told) and that back cinches were almost required in the mountains out there...Anyway, I think you'll be more satisfied with using the rigging ring either way you go. Bruce, I've seen what you are talking about with the fender just sliding on the stirrup leather, it's used quite a bit still today on gaited horse saddles. Especially the ones that use english stirrup leathers. There is another kind of fender, used with english leathers, that has a sleeve sewn on the back of the fender and the leathers run through that sleeve. These both seem to be popular on saddles that have english stirrup leathers because of the tendancy for the english leathers to pinch the rider's calf. I also don't have any idea why a fender would be sewn and rivetted to the skirt of the saddle but the guy seemed to really like it...to each, his own...I guess. David

Hide mechanic, Thanks for the advice. I have had several issues with leg and joint pain while riding but I attributed it mostly to arthritis and past injuries. I have been riding an old plantation saddle that I traded a colt for ( cause the saddle don't eat and the colt was the result of a neighbor's stud getting loose) and I have noticed that I need longer stirrups and that I have less joint pain riding it. I have even entertained the idea of building a buena vista as my next saddle. I noticed that Steele sales this tree, but I don't know what the get for them, so it won't be any harder to get that tree than a wade tree. I'm glad you mentioned narrowing the seat because now that I think about that and look at the saddle it does have quite a bit narrower tree than most western saddles. I did also see a thread about re working a ground seat but I haven't seen the conclusion to that thread yet, so I'm anxiously waiting for that. Once again, thanks for the advice. David

Timbo, As far as the d cut out in the skirt for a breast collar attachment, my .02 is that it is unnecessary. I have had saddles with d rings mounted on them for the breast collar ( never had the cut outs though) and I have always just hooked to my rigging ring or even hooked it around my cinch strap. To me that is a much stronger place than the d ring on the front of the saddle. I would also be afraid that the cut out would get torn out then you would have to replace or repair the skirts. I don't ride in the Sangre De Cristos but I do ride some pretty steep hills so I know the value of a good breast collar but it seems to me that the place that d rings are on the saddle tends to make it a neck collar unless you use the one that's shaped like a big U on the horse's chest. Personally, I use a walking horse breast collar ( 2 inch leather strap) and it rides perfectly across the chest when hooked to the rigging. Plus I don't have to worry about that rigging ring breaking off the saddle on a scramble up a hill. If you ride with britchen on your saddle are you going to hook it to the back rigging rings or put in d rings? As far as the rivetting on the fenders...if the idea is to keep the fender smack up against the edge of the seat then why couldn't all three layers be rivetted together? I do accept everyone's concensus that they are not, I'm just wondering (hypothetically) why this couldn't be the case. If the back of the leather had holes punched all the way up and there was a long enough tail to the front part you would get plenty of adjustment on the stirrup and you would never have to worry about the fender sliding down out of the place it was supposed to be. Another fender idea I have seen recently is the fender rivetted and sewn to the skirt. Then the stirrup leather was ran like normal except it was routed through slots cut into the fender. The one I saw was an old saddle at the Amish saddle maker's shop I went to this past weekend and the leather went under the fender at the top and came back out about 2 inches from the bottom of the fender then through the stirrup and to the buckle. It looked to me like it would impede leg movement but the Amish guy who was having it worked on said it didn't bother him ( of course you can get used to anything). Has anyone ever seen this fender set up?

I paid 2.27 a gallon last night for gas. I used to have a Chevy S-10 that ran on propane ( I got it from the propane company when they bought a new fleet of vehicles) at the time ( mid 1990's) it cost me more per gallon than gas but it would go about twice as far on a tank than an S-10 that ran on gas. I have been thinking about going back to the propane company to see if they have another truck for sale. Has anyone looked into the Hydrogen fuel cells for their vehicles? I'm thinking of getting one but I'm still not sure. If anyone has used one I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Bruce Thanks for explaining that about the seat. That may have been my issue with the saddles I tried and didn't like. As I've posted before I'm no calf roper ( or roper of anything really although I can rope if I have to) so I guess I would like a narrower seat especially towards the front of the saddle. I spent a lot of time on the front line of a foot ball team in high school and then 5 yrs running every morning in the Marine Corps so I have bigger thighs than most riders and I tend to have issues with interferance when I try to move my legs much at all in a saddle. I've had a roping saddle with a bowman style pommel and I liked it but I prefer a slick fork like a weatherly or a wade. I definately agree with you on the plate rigging, my last saddle had a drop plate with a "C" shaped rigging ring and I liked it better than any rigging style I've ridden before. Whether tied or buckled it was the most comfortable rigging. Hidemechanic Well actually, what happened was... I had a saddle that I really liked but another guy liked it too so he offered me his horse trailer ( which I was in need of and liked a little more than the saddle) for my saddle. So, now I have a trailer but no saddle. So I thought if I'm gonna get another I want it to be exactly what I want and not "just about what I'm looking for" that's why I got on here and started trying to figure out what I could do with a saddle. I started this thread about narrow swells( or I guess the seat) and I started a thread about skirts to see what people think about eliminating the skirts to cut down on saddle weight. So, I don't have the saddle to have it reworked. I'm actually hoping that this will be my chance to build my own so I'm kinda easing into that idea and trying to get everything worked out in my head before I spend money on materials.

I'm not sure how thin I would like to go because I haven't measured the ones I have ridden. What I do know is that I have sat on saddles that have felt like I was sitting on a 55 gallon drum without the sides beat in. What I'm looking for is a saddle that doesn't interfere with my legs when I ride. If I need to reach forward to nudge a shoulder to move a colt or whatever. I have sat on a McCall wade and the pommel just felt too wide to me, it made the whole saddle uncomfortable. I'm pretty sure I don't want a wade tree saddle but I might want a weatherly and I may have to dally off a colt now and then so I want a functional saddle not just something pretty to sit on. I also need to be able to move my legs around, that's why I don't want a swell fork, so I'm wandering just how thin I can get the pommel and not have to worry about it coming off the first time a colt decides it don't want to pony around the pasture.

It actually looks to me like they are rivetted together. Troy is right that it would severly limit stirrup adjustment but it would also keep the fender close to the seat which doesn't seem to me to have any practical purpus other than aesthetics. It also seems to me that having the fender where it is would cause your thigh to get pinched everytime you move your leg. I also don't like the fact that the rigging ring is under the blevins buckle as that will create quite a lump under your leg. If I were modifying this saddle to my own taste I would move the rigging forward enough to get it out from under the stirrup leather and I would take those rivets out, but maybe you could put a loop there (like a belt keeper loop) around both layers of stirrup leather. That would give you that flat look but you would still be able to adjust the stirrup where you wanted it. Also, I don't know what kind of riding you do but you might want a cantle pocket when you build your saddle. They are very handy for rides when you don't need saddle bags but don't want to sit on your wallet the whole time. Just a couple of suggestions. David

I think Marlon's method is what you are wanting as it won't damage the coin and if done properly there is no way to lose the coin. To put it more in lay terms you take the belt and punch a hole in it just a little smaller than the coin, lay the coin on the back of the belt( so it can be seen through the hole) and then sew something onto the back of the belt that will cover the coin and hold it in place. I have also seen this method (kinda the opposite of what Marlon suggested) where the coins are layed out on the out side of the belt then a peice of leather is cut in a design with round spots where the coins are and smaller runs between the coins then that second piece is sewn on the top of the belt with the coins in between (kinda the way a ranger belt is two peices sewn together). I think this way looks the best but that's just my opinion. Hope this helps David

You could apply for a patent. It won't completely protect you but it will keep about 95% of people from copying your design without permission.

First let me say thanks for this tutorial, I have a S&W that I'm wanting to build a pancake for so this will greatly help me. Secondly, I have a question that is related but may be a whole other tutorial... If you were going to say basket weave stamp your holster, at what step in the process would you do the stamping? I know for tooling you should glue on a backing to keep it from streatching out but what about stamping, will that also stretch the leather? David

Looks great...and just about my size too.

Gotta love Seinfeld- the show about nothing. Thats a great workspace, I wish I had something even close to that. Also, did you make the bow in the corner of your first workshop?

Thanks for the info folks.

I'm new to this leather working stuff so I could be off the mark here but I thought tan kote was what everyone prefered. I wonder how it would stand up to this test? I was just about to order my first bottle of it but now I'm thinking I may want the Aussie Conditioner instead.

I'm looking for a source to buy a saddle horn. I would prefer a brass horn but if I can't get one I'll take whatever material I can get. I want to put a horn on a McClellan saddle for my son to ride. This saddle is in pretty rough shape and will have to be completely rebuilt anyway so I'm going to rebuild it into a McClellan packer's saddle instead of the cavalry or artillery styles. It's meant to have an uncovered brass horn so that's what I'm looking for. I also need some brass rigging rings if anyone knows where I can get them. Here's a link to what I'm hoping my end result will be. http://www.militaryhorse.org/studies/mcclellan/m1913.php Thanks David

Mule fool- I would like to see a picture of that. I have wondered, ever since seeing my first McClellan, why skirts are needed and how a saddle would work without them.