Lobo

From what you have described I suspect that the denatured alcohol may be the problem, or contributing to the problem. I regularly use isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol with dyes with no problems. I have also used rubbing alcohol (70% strength) for wet-forming, particularly when completing large orders on a short schedule, and never experienced what you are describing. I would not recommend using a heat source when drying leather that has been saturated, or heavily treated, with any alcohol. Alcohol is flammable. Another possibility is the leather. Weaver's is an excellent source and provides excellent customer service. Weaver's offers Hermann Oak veg-tanned, and also offers imported leathers from several sources. Every tannery uses a different process, even for similar tanning methods, and the final results will vary. The problems to be expected when using leather from different sources include differences in ease of cutting, differences in forming, differences in appearance, differences in how the leathers will take dyes and finishes. For these reasons I stick with one supplier of known quality and consistency. I have settled on Hermann Oak veg-tanned for everything, and the consistency of product has been excellent. Wickett & Craig also provides excellence and consistency, and is a great source. But, I would not expect identical results from HO and W&C products, so I would choose one or the other for best consistency. Best regards.

JoelR: "Bonded" nylon generally refers to multiple-strand nylon filament threads that are intended for machine stitching without the need for lubrication. Size #277 (or T270 as it is also called) is a four-strand thread having significant strength, and is useful for many heavy-duty applications. Hand-stitching can be done with just about any thread weight or type. #415 is a very heavy-duty product that will serve just about any needs. Waxed thread (lubricated with wax) is prefered for some hand-stitching applications, however bonded nylon will do quite well for most. Some stitching machines can be fitted with lubrication stations, applying waxy solutions to the thread as it is advanced into the machine (generally a messy and unpleasant solution). Nylon threads, in general, offer the specific advantage of not requiring lubrication (waxing, etc). Nylon threads also offer considerable strength (sheer strength, resistance to breaking under stress) when compared to some other thread types. Nylon also resists mildew, mold, ultraviolet light exposure, and other potentially deteriorating factors better than some other types. Nylon threads also suffer from more tendency to stretch (as much as 30% under some conditions) under load than some other types. As is the case with many things in life, everything is a compromise. What thread type? What weight or size? Lubricated or un-lubricated? If there are any absolute answers that apply to all circumstances and applications I haven't found them yet. Best regards.

Mike: From an old US Army Airborne Infantryman and Pathfinder, I would like to express my respect for your service as a Marine. In Vietnam I relied upon Marines regularly and I was called upon to support Marines regularly. Definitely a formative process in a young person's life, as I'm sure you will agree. As for my little post here, all it amounts to is a bit of distilled knowledge that some may find helpful, and others will criticize freely. If there is something that you find useful, I am happy to have been of help. For those who choose to criticize, that is their prerogative. For me, the bottom line is that I continue to receive 30-plus orders every week for my products, and about 30 percent of my orders are repeat customers. Maybe I am doing something right, once in a while. Life is good here. I wish the same for you. Best regards.

Dan: Quality of tanned leather products will vary widely. There are imported hides that are quite good, and there are imported hides that still smell of the horse urine used in their tanning process. There are suppliers that will provide a reasonably good product one month, then send something unusable for the intended purpose the following month. My recommendation is to stick with reputable North American tanneries like Hermann Oak and Wickett & Craig. They will provide a consistently excellent product without surprises and disappointments. If the minimum order deters you from ordering directly, just contact Kevin at Springfield Leather Company (see banner ads). Kevin and his staff will bend over backwards to help you with your needs, and usually have Hermann Oak veg-tanned sides in stock in most weights, with no minimum order requirement (in fact, I think they will supply cut pieces on request for small volume customers). Let them know what you intend to do with the leather that you order and they will do their best to send appropriately selected material for your needs. Stop wasting your time with substandard imported garbage. Get with Kevin and his crew and stock your shop with leather that is worth your time. Best regards.

I have just posted in the "holsters, etc" section a copy of a message that I have sent to a new leather worker pursuing classic Roy Baker-style pancake holsters. I think that there might be some regular interest in the content from those starting out in this work, and others that may be struggling with certain aspects. Perhaps you will find it suitable for "pinning up". Best regards Ray Lobo Gun Leather Name: Ray Cory UserName: Lobo IP Address: 76.120.4.42 Email Address: ray.cory@comcast.net

I am presently engaged in e-mail discussions with a very promising new holster maker, and I have sent a rather detailed summary of my methods for making and finishing the pancake-style holsters that he is pursuing. The gentleman's early efforts are very reminiscent of Roy Baker's original pancake holsters, and it appears that his grandfather was acquainted with Baker years ago, which explains the influence. The gentleman has very limited working space and only the most basic tools, so I have tried to keep the discussion on very basic methods. There are a few omissions (such as edge burnishing, which the gentleman has demonstrated good skills with), but the main points seem to be covered. Experienced makers will have moved far beyond these basics, and some will undoubtedly disagree with me on various points based on their own experiences. After reviewing this message it has occured to me that others might find this of interest, so here it is. __________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ There are a few tricks to pancake-style holster making that will make each project go much easier. 1. Whenever possible, use the same pattern for both inner and outer holster panels. This will make your pieces fit together as closely as possible. 2. When your pieces have been cut, assemble them with a water-resistant cement applied in the "wing" areas (where the belt slots are located), and either clamp them together, or place a weight on the piece while the cement sets up. "Barge" contact cement is excellent. 3. After the cement has set up (10 to 15 minutes typically) you can cut the stitching grooves, lay out your stitch pattern, and stitch the piece up. I use the groover only at the edges, not for the stitch pattern; others like to cut a groove for all stitching. I think that my machine provides plenty of thread tension to suck the stitches in firmly. 4. After stitching I like to dampen the piece lightly (a quick dunking in water works). Then I dress the edges off with a drum sander and/or belt sander. The moisture prevents leather dust in the air, with the damp material falling quickly on the workbench or table. This makes clean-up easier, you won't be breathing a lot of dust, and there won't be a lot of dust in the work-space to mess up your finish work later. 5. The sanded edges will tend to have a modest "roll" of leather around the edges, which is then cut off cleanly with the edge beveling tool. A sharp tool works very quickly and easily on the damp leather. NOTE: If you will be tooling the holster, that can be done easily at this point. I prefer to tool after assembly and stitching, which avoids the tendency of a tooled piece to expand in size during the tooling. 6. Belt slots can be cut next. For simplicity, I recommend first marking the upper and lower ends of the slot by tapping with a 3/8" drive punch (about $3.00), then cutting both sides of the slot using a wood chisel (1-1/4" works perfectly for 1.5" slots, 1.5" works perfectly for 1.75" slots; about $8.00 each) driven straight through on the lines. After the straight cuts are made, go back with the 3/8" drive punch and cut the slot ends. Very neat result every time. Back side can be beveled, then a 3/8" wooden dowel can be used to burnish the cut edges neatly. 7. Forming comes next. I dunk the piece into cool water for 5-10 seconds, allowing it to absorb quite a bit of water and become soft and pliable. Then the handgun (or dummy) is forced into position in the holster pocket. I use a cylinder-shaped tool rolled over the exterior to compress the leather and locate the details of the handgun's shape. The outline can then be worked with a rounded tool (like the handle of your edge beveling tool) to closely form around the pistol. The rounded tool can also be applied at the ejection port, trigger guard, cylinder flutes, etc. Set the piece aside to air-dry for 30 minutes or so. 8. As the moisture content drops and the leather begins to set into shape, you may want to use a bone folder or other smooth tools to model and define the details of the handgun. "Boning" requires that the moisture level be relatively low so that the leather will retain the impressions of the tool. Practice makes perfect. 9. When the holster has dried sufficiently to retain its shape the handgun can be removed and complete drying can be done. Air-drying typically takes 8 to 12 hours. When the piece has completely dried the finish process can be done. Advanced techniques: 1. Wet-forming, usually done with water, can require long drying times, and boning work may require monitoring the piece for hours as it dries so that the boning work can be done properly and retained by the leather. Another process can be used to cut this time down considerably. Instead of using water, wet-forming can be done with isolpropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol, about $2 per quart at WalMart). Soak the leather as usual for wet-forming with rubbing alcohol, then begin the forming process. Alcohol evaporates very quickly, so you can usually do the entire forming job in about 20 minutes or so, then the piece will be completely dry in about an hour. Alcohol also has the effect of activating collagens within the leather fibers, which results in a very rigid final form. 2. Wet-forming with water can be speeded up considerably by using heat to dry to piece. A drying cabinet (enclosed box with a 40-watt or 60-watt light bulb in a fixture to generate heat) or a convection oven can be used. The optimum temperature range is about 120 to 130 degrees F, which will completely dry a wet holster in about 30 to 60 minutes (depending on ambient humidity, etc). With a timer set at 8 to 10 minute intervals, the piece can be removed for boning every few minutes, then returned to the cabinet or oven. The heat also activates collagens in the leather fibers, and the end result will be a very rigid form. CAUTION: temperatures above 130 degrees or so will scorch the leather, causing the surface to wrinkle and crack; contact with metal racks can result in scorch marks. Trial and error with scrap pieces will guide you to a perfect result every time. 3. Wet-forming involves considerable stretching of the leather fibers. Drying will always result in some shrinkage, and the fit to the handgun may become objectionably tight. This can be overcome after the finishing process by placing your pistol (or dummy) in a plastic bag, then forcing it into the holster and leaving it overnight. When the bag is removed the fit should be nearly perfect. NOTE: You can also apply Johnson's Paste Wax to the outside of the bagged pistol, then work that into the holster's interior; the wax will be taken up by the leather fibers and remain there as a lubricant at contact points. Paste wax does no harm to leather or handgun finishes (actually, it is a very good preventative for moisture protection). Finishing leather holsters: There is considerable debate over the best ways to achieve a durable finish that protects your finished product from the elements and provides an attractive result. "Attractive result" is an entirely subjective term, meaning something different to every person. First, consider that the vegetable tanning process dries the hide thoroughly, with very little residual moisture content. Second, wet-forming and drying will further reduce moisture content in the leather. Third, the stretching, molding, and modeling of the leather during the wet-forming process builds stresses in the fibrous material of the leather. Wet-formed vegetable-tanned cowhide is typically quite rigid, extremely dry, and subjected to stresses of the fibers. Repeated flexing of the leather (which are normal in the daily use of a holster) can result in cracking of the leather, particularly at stress points like the holster mouth and belt attachment points. For these reasons, I recommend the use of neatsfoot oil to replenish natural moisture in the finished piece and provide some flexibility with reduced risks of cracking. Neatsfoot oil is rendered from the feet and lower legs of cattle, and is a completely natural substance that is secreted by cattle in their lower legs to prevent freezing during cold weather. One of the best ways I have ever heard of refering to neatsfoot oil is "cow oil". A modest application of neatsfoot oil is my first step in the finishing process. I apply it with either a soaked rag or a 1" paint brush, only to the exterior (hair side) of the leather (applying to the flesh side results in very rapid absorption and it is easy to apply too much oil). The oil will be absorbed within a few minutes, but will require 12 hours or more to migrate through the fibers and "settle" into the leather. Neatsfoot oil does not dry; it remains there permanently (it can evaporate from unsealed leather left exposed to the elements for extended periods, but this is beyond the scope of this discussion). Oiling is done after dyeing, but before any other surface finishes. Leather holsters benefit from being completely sealed to avoid or minimize the tendency to attract and retain moisture (from precipitation, from perspiration, etc). I use a heavy application of acrylic sealant (Fiebing's Leather Sheen is good, and believe it or not, Mop N Glo floor treatment is very good for this, although the odor is something to deal with), applied to all surfaces of the interior and exterior. The holster can be dipped into a pail of sealant, then allowed to drip-dry. Full drying will require 12 hours or more. After the sealant has completely dried the final exterior finish can be applied. My preference is for a satiny finish, rather than a high gloss, and I don't care for the "plastic" feel of some of the acrylics (like Resolene). I prefer a durable wax-based finish, and I have developed my own mixture to produce the finishes I like. For your situation, I recommend either Fiebing's Bag Kote or Tan Kote, which can be applied with a damp sponge. As an optional final treatment, a light application of neutral shoe polish can be done. From start to finish, expect around 3 days to produce a finished holster. Trying to rush the finishing work can result in disappointments, and destroy all the work leading up to that point. I hope this helps with your next project.

I recommend against any product name or terminology that cannot be clearly pronounced and enunciated while chewing a mouthful of mashed potatoes and drinking beer simultaneously. Just too many chances of messing up a syllable here or there, probably involving my nasal cavities. Nice work!

I have ordered from The Thread Exchange. #277 bonded nylon that I have received was Linhanyl brand, and quality was as expected. My orders have been placed by phone. Customer service was good, shipments have been well packed and delivered promptly.

Ditto on Randy's comments. Each hide will tend to take dye a little differently than every other hide. Experimentation on scraps, including your finish applications after dying, will give a much better idea of the final result. Also, different methods of dye application will result in differences in dye penetration and final coloration. Dip-dyeing usually results in maximum absorption and penetration. Applying with a sponge or dauber may give mixed results, especially on multiple pieces cut from different hides. Spray application permits the best control, with multiple light applications possible allowing best control over the result. Dye makers usually offer thinners, allowing the user to control the result over a range of results. Thorough mixing is required for best results, whether or not a thinning agent is used. When testing on scraps don't forget to apply all the other products you will use after dying. Many, especially oil-based preparations, will darken dyed leather significantly.

Three of my six work stations consist of old office desks. Each of these has several drawers. I keep my dummies in those drawers, with revolvers arranged by brand in one desk and semi-autos arranged by brand in the others. At least, that is the plan. In reality, with two or three dozen holsters always in some phase of production the dummies end up scattered all over the place, and I find myself wandering around the shop muttering to myself ("Now where in the heck is that P239?", or "I know I have a 4" N-frame around here somewhere!"). I like your pegboard idea; easy to see what is where it belongs and what is out working somewhere. I have similar problems with patterns. As a production run is completed the finished items are packaged for delivery and the patterns go into a box for filing. When I don't get my filing work done I find myself sorting through dozens of patterns, looking for the one I used last week and need again for another order. I guess what I really need is someone to follow me around, picking up dummies and patterns and putting them away for me so I can find them next time they are needed. If I ever get everything properly organized I suppose I will just sit and stare at a nice neat shop, not wanting to do anything that will mess everything up again. Not very likely, but it could happen. Maybe after I get my tax returns done (which will require that I find all those receipts and invoices that I have stuffed into files over the past year).

My understanding of Fiebing's dyes is that the standard dye is spirit-based (alcohol base) and the oil dye is formulated to mix readily with neatsfoot oil or harness oil for simultaneous application (apparently an advantage in harness work, but not something we regularly do in holster making). Dying holsters and other items black can be frustrating, especially when dying after forming the items. Black typically requires multiple applications to obtain adequate penetration and surface coloration. Some finishes have a tendency to blend with and displace the dye, particularly when applied by hand (daubers, sponge, etc), so we must be certain of adequate dye penetration and coverage before finish applications. My method for black includes a first dye application (Fiebing's spirit-based) by immersing the item in the dye for about 5 seconds, then letting that dry thoroughly (12 hours or more, depending on temperature and humidity). A second application is then done by brushing dye liberally over the exterior surfaces, then that is allowed to dry overnight. A third application by brush is then done, and allowed to dry overnight. I then apply neatsfoot oil using either a brush or a cloth pad and allow the oil to settle into the leather overnight. This will sometimes result in a few areas showing insufficient black dye coverage, and those are dyed again using Fiebing's oil dye then allowed to dry overnight. That is followed by a thorough application of acrylic to seal both interior and exterior surfaces, and that is allowed to air-dry overnight. My final finish is a proprietary mixture that I have developed for a satin finish that resists scratching and abrasion. Black is the most difficult and time consuming finish to complete, usually requiring 4 or 5 days to get it right. Any attempt to rush the process is likely to result in dye failure, and the only solution is to deglaze, re-dye, and re-finish. Primarily for this reason I am looking real hard at buying drum-dyed leather for my black production requirements. Best regards.

US Model 1916 Dismounted Pistol Holster for the M1911 and M1911A1 .45 caliber pistols. Made by Boyt in 1943, originally undyed tan leather. The US Army changed to black leather items during the latter 1950's, at which time existing stocks of holsters, shoes, etc, were dyed black and remained in service. Unfortunately, with the dye job collector value is all but gone. Original and unaltered, these regularly bring $50 to $150 depending on condition.

As it happens, I have made a few (thousand) Threepersons' style holsters, including some for the 1911-style pistols. Attached are some photos showing one made with hand-carving based upon the original pattern, elk suede lining, and traditional thong retention. Basic envelope-style construction with welted seam and folded belt loop, mid-ride height, modest forward cant, when made along the lines of old Tom's personal holster. Many variations have been produced by most 20th Century holster makers, and the general design can readily be seen in a number of products still offered by several companies. My personal specialty has been recreating the original design with the original carving pattern (done for me by a very talented artist in leather). The Threepersons' style has always been a favorite of mine. Best regards.

Tooling or carving must be done prior to assembly, stitching, and forming. The tooled or carved pieces must be dampened to permit forming to the intended content (knife, pistol, etc). Excessive moisture can be expected to cause the piece to swell, which can have negative effects on the tooling or carving. The use of tools (boning) in forming the piece while damp will certainly damage the carving or tooling. I make many holsters featuring either Sheridan-style floral carving or basketweave tooling. The method that I apply is to dampen the piece prior to forming, using just enough water to make the leather pliable, then forming it to the handgun by using finger pressure only. I have not noticed any significant changes due to shrinkage while drying. I do not stake or tack down the piece while it is drying. I do use a drying cabinet with heat controlled to about 130 degrees (+/- 10 degrees), and in about 30 minutes or so the piece has dried sufficiently to proceed with edge burnishing, dying, etc. Attached photos display a number of holsters with carving and tooling made in this manner. Best regards.

When we are doing something as a labor of love, that is one thing. When we are doing something as a hobby, that is another thing. When we are running a business, that is another thing entirely. I fully respect the artist who creates only what his heart and soul drive him to do, with no compromises. For me, this is a business and not a hobby. I make every effort to produce quality products based upon solid designs that meet the needs of my customers. Best regards.

I see little need for a guard on a kitchen knife, or perhaps on a knife for small game or fish. For big game, when both of my hands are slippery (to say the least) during field dressing chores, I want a good guard to keep my hand from slipping or sliding onto the blade. I haven't felt the need for a fighting knife since my days in Vietnam, but I think the guard would be even more important for such uses. A well-made sheath, properly formed and finished, can provide adequate retention without the need for a retention strap. Customers worrying about their high-dollar knives may want the added assurance of the strap. Making what the customers want is good business, just as long as it will perform the intended functions properly and safely. Making what we prefer for our own use, or what we perceive to be the best design, can only be expected to reduce the number of potential customers, and volume of orders. Best regards.

Phipps: You may be onto something with the paracord inner strands, but probably only for users of small quantities. Bonded nylon thread made to US Government testing standards offers the following characteristics: Size 277, 4 strand, 45 lb. breaking strength, 1500 yards to a 1-lb. cone. Size 346, 5 strand, 53 lb. breaking strength, 1200 yards to a 1-lb. cone. Size 415, 6 strand, 72 lb. breaking strength, 1050 yards to a 1-lb. cone. Size 455, 8 strand, 83 lb. breaking strength, 655 yards to a 1-lb. cone. For users of any significant volume the $15 to $20 cost per 1-lb. cone in ready to use form is nothing when compared to stripping out paracord to separate the inner strands for use. A pound of thread will stitch hundreds of holsters, belts, pouches, etc. and 8-oz. and 4-oz. quantities are also readily available for users of smaller quantities. For machine stitching there is no real choice. Best regards.

+1 on everything this gentleman has said. Remember, boys and girls, the difference between a business and a hobby. A hobby is intended to provide personal gratification. A business is intended to generate profit. The best method known for building a business is building relationships with customers. Best regards.

Well, I am ready to admit that I make mistakes from time to time. I still buy all of my pencils with erasers attached, just to keep those handy. I have orders for lined holsters, then my mind goes on "cruise control" in the shop and I produce an unlined holster. I have orders for brown holster, then I set up the dye stations and dip one into the black dye. I have holsters that display some degree of blemish in the leather that may not have been noticed during lay-out, cutting, assembly, stitching, etc, then became glaringly evident upon finish application. I have days that I make so many mistakes that I know it is time to walk away, rather than continue doing what I have been doing. I offer 8 standard models with 4 common options, in 4 colors, for over 90 different handguns. This works out to over 11,000 possible variations. The chances of someone ordering one of my "mistakes" becomes rather remote, given all the variables. So they gather in boxes and on shelves, waiting for the opportunity to generate profit by making a customer happy. Such is life for an old fart with nothing between me and the next mistake than my next random thought! A couple of times every year I hold a clearance sale, offering all of my stock-on-hand at good discounts. These may be perfect, but not as ordered. These may be imperfect, but serviceable. If they are just plain bad I prefer to throw them away. So, I advertise my clearance merchandise with full disclosures of any defects, price these down significantly, and most of them go away to happy customers. Many customers demand perfection, and won't accept less. Many more customers want a good product at a reasonable price, and will accept less than perfection when the product meets their needs and budget. One of the most legendary holster makers of the 20th Century (company name easily recognizable) ran a very successful side business offering his "seconds" at bargain basement prices. Each piece was clearly described so that the buyer knew what to expect. I see nothing wrong with this approach. Yes, I sell my "seconds" and "irregulars", and the majority of buyers are happy to get these products at a reduced price. Quite a few of these customers will place orders for additional products, which is good (allowing me to make additional mistakes, etc, etc, etc). Maybe one of these days I will get it all figured out, stop making mistakes entirely, and do nothing but first-class work every time. Maybe the sun will start rising in the west and setting in the east. Until then I will continue to make mistakes every day, and many of those mistakes will turn into sales while some turn into long-term business relationships that are good for both myself and my customers. Life is just as good as we permit it to be. Don't let an opportunity pass you by.

Thanks, guys. This one is really all about the gun, not the holster. I make hundreds of holsters every year, and each one bears my fingerprints and trademark. Occasionally I get to make one that connects me with the customer, the family history, or some other significant aspect, and I genuinely enjoy these connections. Best regards.

My friend John mentioned to me some time back that he had his father's old revolver, wanted a holster for it, but had never been able to find anything. Now, John is in his late 70's, so his father's old revolver was likely to be a real old timer, so I asked to see it. In due course, John brought it to me. Smith & Wesson hammerless "lemon squeezer" (Model 1-1/2 Safety Hammerless, 3rd Model) double action revolver, caliber .32 S&W. Probably made between about 1890 and 1920. State of the art gentleman's vest pocket revolver, back in the day! And much to my surprise, the revolver shows almost no wear at all! Blued finish is without significant blemish, case-hardened trigger in near-perfect condition, bore and chambers could be unfired condition. Very few of this type remain in such fine condition. It is always a treat to see some of the old time pieces. I explained to John that, given the condition of the piece, it is certainly a desirable collectable, that I would advise putting it away for safekeeping, and that carrying it in a holster could possibly result in finish wear. John still wanted a holster for his dad's revolver. So I made a simple belt holster for him. Hermann Oak 6-7 oz. veg-tanned. Welted seam construction. Folded belt loop. Removable retention strap with snap. A fun job! And I got to keep a nice old S&W around for a week or so.

Dwight: For a while Springfield Armory was making pistols with slides noticably larger than original spec's. They also made quite a few pistols with oversized frame-dust covers. It is best to inquire any time you receive an order for a S.A. pistol. There is actually quite a bit of variation among the 1911-style pistols from various makers. I have several dummies and 28 pistols, but there are still quite a few weapons that I can't make holsters for. I've never noticed Ring's blue guns shrinking, but all of mine show varying degrees of wear from repeated use. These still work well for holster forming. Wet-forming of veg-tanned leather frequently involves considerable stretching of the leather fibers and, as the holster dries, some shrinkage will always occur. I dip-dye after forming, and see some shrinkage result from that also. Heavy applications of acrylic sealant can result in some shrinkage as well. After the holster has been fully finished I test the fit. If it is overly tight I have found that putting the gun in a plastic bag, then forcing it into the holster pocket and leaving it overnight will usually result in just the right amount of stretching for a good final fit. Applying a bit of Johnson's Paste Wax to the outside of the plastic bag is another trick that works very well; the wax is taken up by the leather fibers at contact points and remains there as a lubricant. Paste wax will not hurt the leather or the pistol's finish (in fact, paste wax is a good way to protect steel from moisture during long-term storage). Neutral shoe polish will also give good results on holster interiors.

Well, I understand that in the remake of "True Grit" the Duke's role is played by "The Dude" (Big Lebowski). So, if the new Duke wants a Ruger I don't see why he shouldn't have one!

No, thanks, Rayban. I also prefer to avoid train wrecks, automobile accidents, and airplane crashes:rolleyes: whenever possible. I know these will continue to occur, with me or without me. Best regards.

Just about all of the distributors of dummy guns are drop-shippers, taking orders and collecting payments, then having Ring's or other manufacturers make and ship the piece. Very few maintain any inventory to speak of. In order to qualify as a distributor and receive wholesale pricing, the manufacturers will require a minimum order, typically $10,000 to $20,000. Such investments will bring a lot of products, but then the distributor has to warehouse, inventory, advertise, sell, and deliver them over a period of time to recover the investment and (hopefully) generate a little profit. Maybe everything will sell, maybe not. The reality of retail marketing includes the likelihood that a portion of everything will eventually have to be sold off at a loss just to clear it out (not to mention losses to theft, shoplifting, etc). When I contact Ring's or Duncan's directly I will get a pretty good idea of when my order will be produced and delivered, allowing me to advise the customer of an estimated production time for each order. The customer can then decide whether or not to proceed. The dummy makers know that they have a lock on the market, and that the market is relatively limited. They know that they can sell a few at high profit, or a few more at low profit. When John Bianchi retired and sold Bianchi International I have heard that he had produced over 40,000,000 products. That is pretty impressive, to say the least. But, Mr. Bianchi pursued a business plan that emphasized wholesale sales to franchised dealers and high-volume outlets, and "floor-plans" that allowed dealers to receive bulk deliveries for in-stock inventory, with payments made over time as the products were sold. Bianchi International's per-unit profit was considerably less than the difference between production cost and retail prices, and I'm sure that they sustained significant losses in some dealings with retailers and distributors. Their approach was volume, with a more modest per-unit profit spread over many orders. Such is not the case for the makers of dummy guns. Their products are in demand only for training of law enforcement and security professionals, with holster-makers being essentially a spin-off market. There is no general public demand for these products, so there is no reason for mass marketing, wholesale production, etc. Mr. Bianchi probably had little difficulty in acquiring a specimen piece of every new handgun brought to market. I suspect that he also had arrangements in place to have dummies made by the dozens, or by the hundreds, as his production plans required. The simple facts are that most holster-makers will continue purchasing a dummy here, maybe a couple of dummies there, frequently waiting for their orders to be produced (after larger orders and more frequent customers, of course), and paying the going prices for what we need. Best regards.