Lobo

This topic comes up from time to time. I have my doubts about a co-op approach working out. In order to ensure that the person using someone else's dummy gun will return it promptly and in undamaged condition, a deposit (equal to or greater than replacement cost) will have to be required. Postage costs can be expected to be about $4.00 (first class) to $6.00 (priority mail) for each trip; add delivery confirmation fees (undoubtedly, someone will claim--truly or falsely-- that they never received a shipment) and/or insurance, and you're up to around $6.00 to $8.00 every time a dummy goes into the mail. Realistically, this means $12.00 to $16.00 for each loan-out, or about 1/4 to 1/3 the cost of the dummy gun. And that gives no consideration to the time needed to package, address, and mail each parcel. How long is the "borrowing" period? A week? Ten days? Better start thinking about late fees, just like the public library charges. Add in some time for corresponding with each co-op member, scheduling, re-scheduling, etc. Factor in some costs for aspirin, because you're probably going to have a lot of headaches. How about a high-demand piece? Several co-op members want it, so you schedule delivery to "A", who keeps it for a week then sends it on to "B", who uses it then sends it on to "C", who uses it and sends it back to the owner. When the owner receives it back the front sight is broken off, the trigger guard has been crushed in someone's holster press, or the left side has been melted in someone's drying cabinet or convection oven. Everybody denies responsibility, so what happens next? Who gets to bite the bullet? I can imagine another dozen sad scenarios, any one of which can just about be guaranteed to happen, the only real question is when. Professional mechanics do not lend out their tools for a reason; they rely upon those tools for their living. The same is true of carpenters, roofers, surgeons, barbers, and others. For the hobbyist making an occasional holster for someone else the much simpler solution is to use the customer's handgun for patterning and forming that order. Do you have a good safe to keep it in? How about insurance that will cover property of others involved in a business transaction? If you can't answer "yes" to both of these questions, I recommend having the customer bring the weapon to you for patterning, then bring it again for forming, and taking it home in between. For the full-time or part-time holster maker in business the answer is to purchase those pieces for which there is sufficient demand to justify the expense. Dummy guns typically cost around $50.00 delivered, so the first order should recover the expense and that piece will remain as part of the maker's inventory, ready to generate profit indefinitely. Personally, after having purchased dozens of dummies I have decided to just buy the real guns whenever possible. If I can't use it at least ten times per year I really don't need it; if I use it ten times in the first year it has paid for itself. The cost is a tax-deductible business expense, and the gun will retain its value indefinitely (or increase in value over time). Essentially, the guns become a part of my retirement fund, and very few investments have grown in value over the past 30 years as much as good quality firearms. I always try to encourage people to pursue their dreams and goals. But I also encourage people to stay in touch with reality. Whatever you are doing is either a hobby or it is a business. The goal of a hobby is personal gratification. The goal of business is profit. In either case, loaning and borrowing tools is likely to defeat the intended goal. Best regards.

I hand-stitched for years using a stitching groover, overstitching wheel, stitching awl, and harness needles. I can still do it, but a good machine has me spoiled completely.

As Monica has pointed out, this topic comes up with some frequency. The bottom line, from my perspective, is this: if I need a forming piece (dummy gun or actual firearm) to make a holster, either there is a manufacturer offering the dummy, or I will have to find the actual firearm to fill the order. Maybe the customer can provide the piece, maybe that is not practical (interstate transfers are seriously restricted by federal law, and costs can be high for shipping, FFL transfer fees, etc). To make a dummy gun I will have to have the actual firearm to make the mold. If I have access to the actual firearm, I no longer need the dummy gun. If I wish to make dummy guns to sell to others, I will still need the actual firearm to make the mold. As Monica has noted, there are patent issues along this road that might bite us in places we don't want to be bitten. I have several dozen dummies, and continue to add more as demand requires. I also have a reasonably good collection of vintage and out-of-production handguns that I use to form holsters with. I am not willing to invest in a dummy unless there is a reasonably good and predictable demand for holsters. If there is a reasonably good and predictable demand for holsters, I would rather spend a few hundred dollars for the actual firearm than to invest $50 or so in a dummy that has very little market value after I am done with it, while the actual firearm will not only retain its current value but will appreciate at a rate far exceeding inflation (good quality firearms have appreciated in value by more than double the inflation rate over the past 50 years or so). Another factor to consider is that, as a holster maker, the acquisition of a forming piece to complete an order is a tax-deductible business expense; what other business allows me to build my collection and write off the expense of doing so? So, for most applications I have decided to buy the actual firearms and have something of tangible (and growing) value in the future. Even a $500 investment is recovered in relatively short order, so long as there is reasonable demand for holsters for that model. Your method may vary. Best regards.

As Monica has noted, only vegetable-tanned leather is capable of being molded and formed, so this is what we want to use to make holsters. Further, every leather item has a tendency to attract, absorb, and retain moisture which may come from precipitation, the atmosphere, or from perspiration of the user. Chrome-tanned leather will always retain chemical salts from the tanning process that can be highly corrosive, not only to blued firearms but also to stainless steels and some modern firarms' finishes (notably Parkerizing, as well as manganese-phosphate black coatings). Coupling the tendency of the leather to retain moisture with the residual chemical salts of chrome-tanning processes creates a "double whammy" effect, with residual moisture taking up chemical salts in solution and holding that sludge in close contact with ferrous metal. The result will almost certainly be corrosion. I have seen even modern stainless steel weapons with noticable surface corrosion after being stored for extended periods of time in leather holsters or cases. I always recommend that customers remove their handguns from their holsters following each day's use, wipe down the handgun with an oily rag or silicone-treated cloth, and store handguns and holsters separately. Holsters should be kept in areas having good air flow, allowing any residual moisture to evaporate away before the next use. This recommendation holds for holsters of vegetable-tanned leather as well, but especially if there are linings of suede or other chrome-tanned leathers. Regardless of what type of sealants one uses, or how thoroughly these are applied, regular use and the stretching and flexing involved in normal use will always provide avenues for moisture infiltration. Best regards.

The US M1907 sling was standard for the M1903 Springfield and M1917 US Enfield rifles of WW1. Brass hardware was standard. Makers included Rock Island Arsenal, Boyt, and perhaps a couple of others. Very little new military equipment was purchased between WW1 and WW2. Early in WW2 orders were placed for M1907 slings, and Boyt made many. Parkerized steel hardware was selected because brass was essential for other things, like cartridge cases. Shortly after that period, about late 1942 to early 1943, a new cotton canvas rifle sling was adopted. Those units having the earlier M1907 leather slings generally kept those in service, while newly formed units were issued the canvas slings. During the latter 1950's the military started the Mildrew Resistant Treatment (MRT) for all leather and canvas gear, and both new items as well as existing stocks were so treated and marked "MRT" and a year date. Original M1907 leather slings of WW1 and WW2 production are in high demand by collectors. Specimens in good original condition will bring $150-plus very easily. Following WW2 the M1907 leather slings were generally used by military marksmanship training units and competitive rifle teams. Canvas slings remained the standard for most units until the mid-1960's when woven nylon slings came into general issue, at about the time that the M16 rifle was adopted, generally replacing the M14's and M1's. There are several gunsmithing firms that specialize in restoring US military arms, and can provide the original grey/green military parkerizing process. If you can find a company capable of stamping out the hardware, getting it parkerized should not be a problem. There are also a couple of outfits selling parkerizing kits, and the process is not particularly difficult to perform. The original parkerizing process was a zinc-phosphate oxidation process applied electrically. Only iron-based metals like steel can be parkerized; no other metal will accept that treatment. Like anything else, such production work usually requires large orders to be economical. Making the dies and punches will require some investment, and heavy-duty punch-press equipment is usually found only in well-equipped production shops serving automobile and other production needs. Best regards.

You can apply the acrylic before assembly and stitching, let it dry thoroughly, then proceed. This will slow water absorption a bit, so you will need to soak a little longer prior to forming.

GrampaJoel: I recommend against using sandpaper on surfaces that will end up in contact with a good handgun. Grit particles can become lodged in the leather, remaining there to work as an abrasive on the handgun's finish. For minor roughness or fuzz on the flesh side I recommend any of the acrylic sealants (leather sheen, super sheen, etc), sponged on then slicked down. For serious roughness, it is time to find a better supplier. Best regards.

I use mostly sides, but also purchase double shoulders. The sides will vary considerably from the back and shoulder areas to the belly fringe. All of it is useful for certain applications, and I end up with very little scrap or waste. Double sides are typically much more consistent in gauging and are the best choice for cutting belt blanks, in my opinion. I have used both W&C and Hermann Oak leathers, and both are excellent products. My personal preference (and that is all it really is) is toward Hermann Oak. HO has a higher minimum purchase requirement, while W&C will sell single units (sides, shoulders, etc), probably making W&C a good resource for the hobbyist or small production shop. Both companies have long histories and excellent reputations. Much of the leather available in the US comes from foreign sources, and imported tanned leathers will vary widely in quality and consistency. For this reason I avoid the imported stuff and stick with the known consistent qualities of HO or W&C. Like most things in life, with leather you will probably get what you pay for.

I got nailed by a brown recluse spider during 4th of July weekend this year. Not pleasant at all. I killed a couple of rattlesnakes last year, one of which had gotten his fangs stuck in my trousers. Not pleasant at all. I can do without the creepy-crawly things.

I don't know about denatured alcohol, but I have experimented with isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol, available just about anywhere for less than $2.00 per quart). This can be used in lieu of water for the wet forming process. Drying time is very short, so the molding and boning work needs to be done rapidly. Alcohol appears to have an effect on the collagens similar to heat (as described by Particle), resulting in a very rigid finished product. Most recently I used this method to complete a rush order of 17 holsters and pouches for a federal agency. That order needed to be delivered in less than two weeks, including transit time. Working with two quarts of isopropyl alcohol in a bucket I got all the forming work done in about 3 hours, then I was able to proceed with finishing work almost immediately. That order went out the door 3 days after starting it and was delivered several days before the new pistols arrived, resulting in a happy customer. Soaking a belt in isopropyl alcohol lets us get a good firm result easily and quickly. My drying cabinet won't accept belts (unless they are coiled up, which results in a permanent curvature), while the alcohol method allows hanging to dry in under an hour. A word of caution: do not attempt to form with alcohol if you intend to use forced drying with heat; alcohol is flammable. Use one method or the other, not a combination of the two methods.

It might be possible that you are rushing the finishing process, too soon after applying the neatsfoot oil. I suggest allowing the neatsfoot oil to completely "settle in" to the leather prior to applying your finish. About 24 hours seems to work well. Neatsfoot oil does not dry, it is absorbed into the leather fibers and will migrate throughout until a balance is reached (what I refered to as "settle in" above). If there is a significant residue on the exterior surface when you start applying your finish coat that could be the result of the streaking you have described.

Very nice workmanship. Edges look perfect. The only critique I might offer is on the "wing" of the Avenger-style holster. I try to avoid sharp corners for comfort reasons, also to reduce opportunities for the cover garment to hang up on the holster or handgun. Also, as built, the leather extends up in close proximity to the grip of the pistol which can reduce accessibility. I like to keep that area open as much as possible so that a firm grip can easily be obtained during the draw. Radiusing that area (as you have done on your pancake-style holster) will accomplish all of these goals. Best regards.

Spinner: I like the look of your website. Straightforward and functional, easy to navigate. I see that. like me, you offer free delivery on domestic orders. Customers love that, especially after dealing with other companies that tack on a hefty "shipping & handling" fee to every order. Best regards.

Interesting topic. I live in Pueblo, Colorado, which was generally acknowledged as the saddle-making center of the North American universe (prior to the big flood about 1920 that obliterated just about everything for miles around). Some of the old-timers I have visited with have shared with me the turn-of-the-century (20th Century that is) method of finishing saddles, and other gear that was intended for extended use out-of-doors. That method seems to have consisted of warming a pan of neatsfoot oil to a point that it would melt and combine with a (roughly equivalent) quantity of beeswax. That mixture was used, warm from the stove, and rubbed into newly-finished leather items using shearling swabs, then the finish was buffed with soft cloth to a fine satin-sheen finish. Routine maintenance was reportedly additional applications of neatsfoot oil, with or without the beeswax. This, of course, resulted in considerable softening of the leather, and would not be recommended for cased-and-blocked items such as holsters (as we generally perceive their functions today), but appears to have been highly satisfactory "back in the day" for saddles and other accroutrements intended for extended exposure to weather, and benefitting from a supple finished state. I think that similar methods were used for several generations prior to the advent of the modern acrylic sealants, and generally good results could still be had to this day providing that one has the patience and willingness to spend the necessary time to learn and apply such practices. Neatsfoot oil is an excellent means of replacing the natural moisture content of leather after vegetable-tanning, wet-forming, and the drying process (all of which sap away natural moisture content from the leather). Neatsfoot oil can easily be overdone, resulting in limp and useless products. However, when properly applied I believe that neatsfoot oil can provide an element of flexibility in cased-and-blocked wet-formed leather articles that can provide lasting protection against moisture infiltration while also contributing to a degree of flexibility that resists cracking due to overly-dried veg-tanned leather (a common state, given the practices in general use today, in my opinion). As evidenced by several earlier posts, there are those who will argue fiercely against any use of neatsfoot oil in holster finishing. Those sources should be acknowledged and appreciated for their contributions to the craft. For myself, I will always rely on the methods that have been proven over centuries of use, and that includes modest applications of neatsfoot oil, and beeswax is a staple in my little shop. One of these days I fully intend to complete a holster rig using nothing but the original 19th Century methods of production and finishing processes. When I find the time I will share the results. Best regards.

Eric: You should definitely be doing business with Springfield Leather Company. Excellent customer service and good prices. Call Kevin, let him know that you are opening a business account. He and his people will go out of their way to take care of you. Best regards.

One of the better vertical-carry shoulder holster designs over the past 40 years has been the Bianchi X-15 model. This is a vertical-carry with pull-through draw utilizing a heavy leather-covered spring to retain the weapon securely. These show up on eBay with some frequency. The size small should work well with your compact 1911.

I have made gun belts for concealed carry applications in 3 ways. First is a single-layer belt of 9-10 oz. veg-tanned, which is suitable for light to medium weight handguns. Second is made of 9-10 oz. with a lining of 4-5 oz. veg-tanned, which is good for medium to heavy handguns. Third is 9-10 oz. with lining of 7-8 oz. veg-tanned, which will support just about any weapon. My typical belt is 1.5" width around the body tapered to 1" at the front for improved comfort. I usually use the Oxford-style buckles, which are small and rounded for better comfort. My personal carry rig consists of a Kimber Custom CDP 1911 5" .45 pistol in my Enhanced Pancake model holster on the 9-10/4-5 oz belt combination. It is very durable and very comfortable. In my experience, single-layer belts can be expected to give about one to two years service in daily use. The single-layer belts will stretch more easily than a belt with substantial lining cemented and stitched in place. The two-layer belts will usually give at least double the service life of a single-layer belt. Linings of suede or other light, flexible leathers add nothing to load-bearing capability or service life, in my opinion. When making belts for a customer I recommend getting an accurate measurement of the belt he is now wearing, from tip of buckle to the tongue hole in use. This is usually about 2" larger than trouser waist size. Also, try to make sure that the customer's holster will accept the belt to be used. Both width and thickness need to be considered. My 9-10/4-5 oz. combination results in a thickness just under 1/4", and some holsters have belt attachment points that won't accept the added thickness readily. The 9-10/7-8 oz. combination finishes out at slightly over 1/4" thickness. Also to be kept in mind is the fact that many dress and casual trousers have belt loops that will not accept the wider and thicker belts. It never hurts to discuss this with customers before they have something they can't easily use, in which case it will always be your fault (in their minds). Best regards.

We see comments regarding cold water vs. warm water vs. hot water from time to time. It occurs to me that whatever temperature of water is used, the dampened leather will return to room temperature well before evaporation is completed, so there won't be much (if any) difference. I have also heard people say that they fill their ice cube trays with hot water, then put them into the freezer. It occurs to me that the water will have to get cold before it freezes, so what is the difference? Heat can be used during the drying process, and can have a profound effect on formed veg-tanned leather. Applying controlled heat in the 130-degree range as the piece dries results in a very rigid finished product, caused by the effect this has on the collagens remaining in the leather fibers. Personally, I like to use cold water during the summertime and warm water during the winter, mainly for my comfort while doing the work. After the initial forming work everything goes into a drying cabinet with controlled heat, and I use a timer to aid me in performing final forming and boning work as the moisture levels drop.

Beautiful work, and an excellent design. Coupling the snug retention to the pistol grip of the rifle, and relieving for the bolt handle, should minimize or eliminate movement of the rifle within the scabbard and prevent excessive wear to the rifle's finish. +1 on the Cobra Class 4. I just added one to my shop last month and it is a pleasure to use.

Exceptionally nice craftsmanship!

Just adding a note regarding the 1911 pistols, as this is one element of this discussion. Not all 1911-style pistols are created equal. In addition to the Colt products there are at least a dozen other brands, some of which manufacture most or all of their own parts, and others that use parts made in places as far off as Brazil (SA, Auto Ordnance/Kahr, etc) and the Phillipines (Charles Daly and others). Dimensions of the slides, frames, and other parts vary considerably even though most are within a relatively narrow range. In addition to standard production models from a dozen sources there are also many custom models from several makers. In addition to differing slide contours (flat tops, etc) there is quite a bit of variation in actual finished dimensions because of the different machining and finish work done. An almost infinite range of aftermarket parts and accessories add to the mix. Thumb safeties and slide releases are probably the most varied, with many shapes and contours seen regularly. Several makers offer models with accessory rails, and none of the different rail designs share the same dimensions. Some makers offer models with obvious variations, such as Kimber's "carry melt" treatment on the CDP series pistols, with all sharp edges beveled and/or rounded off. My usual carry piece is a Custom CDP, and I form my holsters directly on that pistol for the best results. I receive several requests every year for holsters molded specifically to support the thumb safety in the "on" position. If all thumb safeties were identical this would not be terribly difficult to accomplish, but that is not the case. As Boomstick has accurately observed, the boning process is intended primarily to achieve the maximum contact between leather and pistol by molding the leather closely to all surfaces and details of the pistol. When this process is applied using the actual pistol to be carried in the holster the result should be an excellent fit. But when anything other than that pistol is used the result will be something less precise. It would be easy to accumulate a couple of dozen dummies (or actual handguns) to match the majority of production pistols, but even that would leave quite a few models for which you have no actual match. Personally, I have 6 dummies of 1911 variations, and I also have a nice collection of 1911 pistols from 1914 to 1991; but I can't say that I have one of everything! My gun safe is already full, and the safe deposit box won't hold much more. Sometimes the customer just has to make a choice between something that I know will work, or making the actual pistol available for patterning and forming. Regardless of the approach used, the finished holster will still be subjected to a number of changes during the initial break-in period. It will conform to the belt in use, and to the user's body contours (in many cases), with the results including some amount of stretching in the leather fibers as well as a degree of distortion caused by belt tensioning. If the resulting fit of the holster's "body" to the handgun remains properly formed and snug that holster is likely to provide good service for a long time.

Twin Oaks: My carver is paid per piece. I always try to send several pieces at a time rather than one here and another there, allowing him to make more effective use of his time. He tells me that he averages about two hours per holster carving, when doing multiple orders, so he is following the same pattern that I use in production. With that information, I estimate about 12 hours for the six carved pieces featured above. So, with my 20 hours, his 12 hours, and my apprentices 5 hours, the total time is about 37 hours. The 20 hours that I spent took place over 3 days. My apprentice worked 2 hours one day and 3 another day. The carving work was probably done in stages over several days. For many years I made only a few items at a time. As the business grew I developed my work flow plan to maximize productivity, and started keeping track of time spent so that I would have a better means of determining per-unit production costs, setting prices, etc. I think we all know that to produce a single holster will take quite a bit of time over several days. By running production in batches I can set up a cutting table and cut a dozen pieces, then assemble those, then stitch them, etc, etc, etc until that batch has been completed. By moving from one station to the next I can cut down on set-up time and clean-up time. I know of a couple of makers that can average 25 units per day over the course of a week. That probably requires a lot more effort than I prefer to expend, now that I qualify for senior citizen discounts at Denny's! My days are actually pretty relaxed at the current pace. If demand grows significantly I'll have to consider expanding, maybe adding more help, which could also add challenges and stress. I once read that John Bianchi started out as a young policeman making holsters on his kitchen table. Forty-odd years later he sold the company with over 10,000 square feet of production space and hundreds of employees, having made over 40,000,000 products! In his spare time Mr. Bianchi was in the National Guard and retired as a brigadier general. I seriously doubt that I will upstage that fine gentleman!

Greg: I was a cop for 24 years, took an early retirement in 1995 with the intention of continuing to work. I have never had to dip into the retirement account yet. I've built houses, run a roofing company, and done insurance investigations while doing a little leather work on the side. After taking the leather business on-line I have been able to drop the other business interests and do leather work full-time. It doesn't happen overnight, and I would not recommend starting from scratch with no other means of support. Best regards.