How to add this effect on leather edges?

[Mocivnik]

How is possible to do 2 things here:

i) burnish edges then "mold" them? As seen small black sheath on the top. To me, it looks like it was done with some sort of string or thread and that it was tied down from left to the right...anyone knows anything better? On the brown sheath on red background, it's even more diverse, so I'm confused on how THAT was done..

ii) How it's done that "carving" on leather on lower pictures? It's like leather have different depth, but not cut out, rather pressed in? Although, this guy is making different shapes every time, I kinda doubt he makes specific tool for each sheath..

Any help would be appriciated!

 

 

Edited April 6, 2023 by Northmount
replaced 3rd party hosted pic, uploaded pic here

[RockyAussie]

I don't see this as all that hard to think out. To show respect to the maker I ask you ...what if the welt area was not burnished at all and perhaps folded instead? In your specialty it says Holsters so the bottom pic with the knife beside the sheath should not be that much of a mystery I would have thought. I hope that is enough for you to see how. 

[Handstitched]

Its pretty darn clever, however its made . Very effective. But one word that passed through my mind, briefly,  was ' filigree' .

So love the textured surface on the sheath, top right & centre left. My Mother once taught pottery, one of the techniques  of applying a texture  to wet clay  was to use natural materials, pine cones,  tree leaves, tree bark etc. anything that has a rough surface. A similar technique could be applied to wet leather. 

Love em !! 

HS

[chuck123wapati]

once dry your leather edge would be worked just like wood cut ,file, sand  then burnish it. Pretty cool effects indeed. just glue up some scrap and try it out.

[Mocivnik]

2 hours ago, RockyAussie said:

I don't see this as all that hard to think out. To show respect to the maker I ask you ...what if the welt area was not burnished at all and perhaps folded instead? In your specialty it says Holsters so the bottom pic with the knife beside the sheath should not be that much of a mystery I would have thought. I hope that is enough for you to see how. 

Well, that didnt help much about the welt, since it's not folded (if I got you right), but it was (probably) tied up?

And about the bottom pic: not sure what you thought a mystery for me was, but it's the "extruded" leather near the edge of the holster. Not sure if you looked at it.

 

  

1 hour ago, Handstitched said:

Its pretty darn clever, however its made . Very effective. But one word that passed through my mind, briefly,  was ' filigree' .

So love the textured surface on the sheath, top right & centre left. My Mother once taught pottery, one of the techniques  of applying a texture  to wet clay  was to use natural materials, pine cones,  tree leaves, tree bark etc. anything that has a rough surface. A similar technique could be applied to wet leather. 

Love em !! 

HS

Exactly. Love it. I was considering of using ropes, straps, leather belts etc. But can't come up with simmilar effect tho. Was wondering if anyone ever made it before..

  

1 hour ago, chuck123wapati said:

once dry your leather edge would be worked just like wood cut ,file, sand  then burnish it. Pretty cool effects indeed. just glue up some scrap and try it out.

My intensions are such. But I was hoping on some tips before I even start to try it out.

[Frodo]

Looking at the sheath it looks to me like the leather was wet and sewn with a large diameter string in the bottom out the top around to the bottom. Then left to dry

pretty clever, I think I will try it. 

[Tugadude]

I'm going to express an opinion here that probably won't be popular with some, but I think it needs to be said anyway.  

But first, I suggest to the OP that if they really want to know how the effect was achieved they should approach the maker who did the work.  Now, that maker may not wish to describe the process, and if they don't, I wouldn't blame them.  Perhaps they have a proprietary technique and don't wish to publicly describe it, inviting competition.  It is a somewhat unique look and possibly THE reason for some of their sales.  

It isn't always easy to find ways to differentiate your work.  When you do come up with something unique and interesting that sets your work apart from that of others, why wouldn't you want to guard it?  And of course there are legal ways to do that, but for many makers, their size and their access to legal expertise limit their options.  So they just make something, put it out and hope that it isn't copied.  

I sent a message to a maker, who shall remain unnamed because I don't have permission to share his identity, letting him know that "someone" on YouTube had posted a video tutorial describing exactly how to make one of his unique, flagship products.  It was a leather wallet, a minimalist one with some very cool details which differentiate it from most of the ones I've seen to date.  

The video was clearly based on his work.  It wasn't similar, it was EXACTLY the same in every respect, down to the smallest detail.  And that's a shame.  Why didn't the YouTuber just provide a "how to" for a basic wallet? 

Now I know some are saying, and it is true, that an experienced leatherworker can study pictures of that wallet and figure out how it was made.  Yes, but that doesn't make it right.  I just think it is poor form to copy someone else's work completely, not even taking the time to make some minor changes so that it could at least be considered derivative and not a copy.

It's sort of like magicians who go onto YouTube and expose the magic effects of other magicians.  Sadly this happens after every televised performance on America's Got Talent or Penn $ Teller's "Fool Us".  And those same magicians go onto magic forums and literally dissect the effects step-by-step until they finally expose how it was achieved.  They are breaking a code that's been in place for centuries but they don't seem to care.  I wonder how they'd feel if the situation was reversed and THEY came up with something really magical only to have it exposed in public on YouTube or on a magician's forum?

There was a similar post here several years ago where a maker was using a unique method of stitching.  It looked cool, and set their work apart from the herd.  Someone asked how to do it.  I thought then and still think now that it would be wrong to copy the technique just because you think it is cool.  It is their signature.  It gives their work a particular look, one that immediately identifies something as "theirs".  That isn't easy to find and obviously even harder to protect.  I don't think we as a community need to be helping.

Let me finish by saying I don't begrudge the OP for wanting to know how this effect was achieved.  If they want to learn it and use it on some stuff just for fun and for their own personal use, great!  But I hope they don't want to take the idea and incorporate it into their business.  

I encourage folks to find their niche, not to copy someone else's niche.  There are tons of things you can do from the choice of leather to the color of leather and/or thread, to the shapes you use.  

Every time I see something new I smile and silently congratulate the maker.  Because I know they probably worked very hard to work it out.  

[chuck123wapati]

8 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

I'm going to express an opinion here that probably won't be popular with some, but I think it needs to be said anyway.  

But first, I suggest to the OP that if they really want to know how the effect was achieved they should approach the maker who did the work.  Now, that maker may not wish to describe the process, and if they don't, I wouldn't blame them.  Perhaps they have a proprietary technique and don't wish to publicly describe it, inviting competition.  It is a somewhat unique look and possibly THE reason for some of their sales.  

It isn't always easy to find ways to differentiate your work.  When you do come up with something unique and interesting that sets your work apart from that of others, why wouldn't you want to guard it?  And of course there are legal ways to do that, but for many makers, their size and their access to legal expertise limit their options.  So they just make something, put it out and hope that it isn't copied.  

I sent a message to a maker, who shall remain unnamed because I don't have permission to share his identity, letting him know that "someone" on YouTube had posted a video tutorial describing exactly how to make one of his unique, flagship products.  It was a leather wallet, a minimalist one with some very cool details which differentiate it from most of the ones I've seen to date.  

The video was clearly based on his work.  It wasn't similar, it was EXACTLY the same in every respect, down to the smallest detail.  And that's a shame.  Why didn't the YouTuber just provide a "how to" for a basic wallet? 

Now I know some are saying, and it is true, that an experienced leatherworker can study pictures of that wallet and figure out how it was made.  Yes, but that doesn't make it right.  I just think it is poor form to copy someone else's work completely, not even taking the time to make some minor changes so that it could at least be considered derivative and not a copy.

It's sort of like magicians who go onto YouTube and expose the magic effects of other magicians.  Sadly this happens after every televised performance on America's Got Talent or Penn $ Teller's "Fool Us".  And those same magicians go onto magic forums and literally dissect the effects step-by-step until they finally expose how it was achieved.  They are breaking a code that's been in place for centuries but they don't seem to care.  I wonder how they'd feel if the situation was reversed and THEY came up with something really magical only to have it exposed in public on YouTube or on a magician's forum?

There was a similar post here several years ago where a maker was using a unique method of stitching.  It looked cool, and set their work apart from the herd.  Someone asked how to do it.  I thought then and still think now that it would be wrong to copy the technique just because you think it is cool.  It is their signature.  It gives their work a particular look, one that immediately identifies something as "theirs".  That isn't easy to find and obviously even harder to protect.  I don't think we as a community need to be helping.

Let me finish by saying I don't begrudge the OP for wanting to know how this effect was achieved.  If they want to learn it and use it on some stuff just for fun and for their own personal use, great!  But I hope they don't want to take the idea and incorporate it into their business.  

I encourage folks to find their niche, not to copy someone else's niche.  There are tons of things you can do from the choice of leather to the color of leather and/or thread, to the shapes you use.  

Every time I see something new I smile and silently congratulate the maker.  Because I know they probably worked very hard to work it out.  

 

I wholeheartedly agree about plagiarizing a persons work solely for profit, that's stealing no doubt, and also finding your own niche but now for the rub.... Every single thing we know or do has been done before by someone else before us. Where do you suggest people stop? At the cool stuff? can we copy the easy stuff? the stuff that isn't unique? How would we have ever came this far as humans if we didn't copy our predecessors and then improve on those ideas to create our "niche"? That is what sets us apart from animals, the ability to copy is the essence of the ability to learn. 

That being said... I would be willing to bet the person that is selling those didn't figure out any super new or secret technique that thousands of years of leather workers haven't. 

 

[doubleh]

Although I have no interest in making something like this I agree with chuck about how to do it.

[Tugadude]

Chuck asks some good questions and I'll try to answer them best I can.

As far as copying and what is acceptable to copy and what is not, here's my take.  

We all copy.  If you boil things down to their base level where the rubber meets the road or the leather meets the pony, we all copy.  And we copy easy things, difficult things and yes, cool things.

I think there's acceptable copying and then there's copying that isn't as acceptable.  Figuring out which is which is somewhat easy for me, I just know it when I see it.  It is that little voice in my head, the conscience that tells me not to do something because it is unique to someone else and they might be harmed should I take their idea for myself.  I'm not suggesting I'm the only one with a conscience and I'm also not claiming to have the market cornered regarding ethics.  

We all have to make decisions.  Some decide differently.  Some read what I said and agree, some disagree and some fall in the middle, agreeing with some, but not all.  

If my post has done nothing but cause people to stop and think and ask themselves whether it is right or wrong to appropriate another's idea, then I've succeeded in what I set out to do.

Regarding the fancy edge treatment, I have no idea whether it is a unique process or something special that the maker devised him or herself.  In fact, maybe THEY copied someone else for all I know.  

There's a company that was selling wallets and such that were natural veg tan but they had a sort of indigo blue fade effect as part of their "signature".  Looked pretty neat.  It set their work apart.  In my opinion it's best left that way.

Edited April 6, 2023 by Northmount
replaced 3rd party hosted pic, upload pic here

[Gezzer]

Not in the same ballpark but when I make these arrowheads , I glue the blanks up and then when dry work the edges like Chuck said . Cut, shape , sand, and burnish . I am betting the the edges up top sre done much the same .  my $ 00.02

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Tugadude said:

If my post has done nothing but cause people to stop and think

 

 

Absolutely agree my friend on the ethics there are many people here who could copy just about anything anyone else does and sometimes much better. 

As are mine Tug no ill intentions meant on my part, just food for thought. Social media has taken away civil discourse and the human right to differing opinions without argument or hard feelings , but only if we allow it. 

But see now i can see what a typical watercolor brush stroke becomes with dye and leather, its called a graded wash  basic to all water color artists and in no way unique to that process, with some fine sketching with a quill and ink on top and you have something completely different and unique.  I've seen that simple type of adornment it reminds me of Japanese style of decoration.

[Tugadude]

29 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

Absolutely agree my friend on the ethics there are many people here who could copy just about anything anyone else does and sometimes much better. 

As are mine Tug no ill intentions meant on my part, just food for thought. Social media has taken away civil discourse and the human right to differing opinions without argument or hard feelings , but only if we allow it. 

But see now i can see what a typical watercolor brush stroke becomes with dye and leather, its called a graded wash  basic to all water color artists and in no way unique to that process, with some fine sketching with a quill and ink on top and you have something completely different and unique.  I've seen that simple type of adornment it reminds me of Japanese style of decoration.

I am always up for discourse!  And no hard feelings here, none at all.  Like I said, I knew my stance wasn't going to be popular with everyone.  

Another example is in the watch world.  The Rolex Submariner is an icon in the industry and the most copied watch design extant.  Some are called "homages" to make the manufacturer feel better I think.  As for me?  I wear a dive watch that might share some resemblance to a Rolex Sub, but is also vastly different in many important ways.  

Innovation and differentiation are important if we don't want everything to look essentially the same.  Which unfortunately happens at times.

[chuck123wapati]

16 minutes ago, Tugadude said:

 

Innovation and differentiation are important if we don't want everything to look essentially the same.  

Then your lookin at the king at innovation!!!! lol nothin i do ever turns out the same 

Sadly ethical thinking has been largely forgotten in the business world. 

 

[fredk]

I've re-read the OP's post. NOwhere does he say he wants to copy the procedure on how the edges were made. He simply asked HOW they might have been done, but some of you are attacking him for wanting and planning to copy another's work. Lets stick to ideas of how that edge effect might have been done. There is no harm in a discussion based on that

[Tugadude]

53 minutes ago, fredk said:

I've re-read the OP's post. NOwhere does he say he wants to copy the procedure on how the edges were made. He simply asked HOW they might have been done, but some of you are attacking him for wanting and planning to copy another's work. Lets stick to ideas of how that edge effect might have been done. There is no harm in a discussion based on that

Fred, nobody attacked anyone.  I even said I didn’t begrudge him wanting to learn how.  My points are valid regardless. If the OP is upset with me or anyone else I am happy to discuss with THEM.

[Tugadude]

I can't speak for Chuck, he is more than capable of explaining himself and what he meant, but I can speak for myself and when I talked about people copying I was meaning rhetorically, not accusing anyone of anything.  The only thing I really addressed directly to the OP was the suggestion that they reach out to the maker directly.  Of course if possible.  I have no idea where they found the picture.  

I noticed that RockyAussie responded saying "to show respect to the maker", and was somewhat vague in his answer.  He can speak for himself, but it indicated to me that he also values creativity and doesn't believe in giving away the store.  

[dikman]

Well, I'll be the odd one out here - I don't particularly like the look, it doesn't appeal to me (guess I'm more of a "traditionalist" ). But I'm also not a fan of basketweave either, make of that what you will.

[Handstitched]

10 hours ago, chuck123wapati said:

How would we have ever came this far as humans if we didn't copy our predecessors and then improve on those ideas to create our "niche"?

Al Stohlman came to mind when I read that. Almost everything I have learnt  I owe to him ( and Anne) .

HS

[Frodo]

good morning all!! 
This is one of the craziest post I have read on this forum. 
every thing we do was done by someone else before us , we copy the method and improve on it then another copies us and so on 

their is nothing unethical about copying another’s work 

Do you saddlestitch?  Do you burnish edges?  That is someone else’s idea

pleasr explain the difference?  One is a stitch that makes a design the other is a stitch that makes a design, same with a laced edge

[Tugadude]

2 hours ago, Frodo said:

good morning all!! 
This is one of the craziest post I have read on this forum. 
every thing we do was done by someone else before us , we copy the method and improve on it then another copies us and so on 

their is nothing unethical about copying another’s work 

Do you saddlestitch?  Do you burnish edges?  That is someone else’s idea

pleasr explain the difference?  One is a stitch that makes a design the other is a stitch that makes a design, same with a laced edge

Frodo, I'll try one last time to share what I mean.  

It isn't that something hasn't been done before that makes something important, or what I call a "signature", but it is the fact that your use of it helps to set your work apart.

For example, the indigo blue dye example I showed.  Some like it, some don't, but it is obvious that this maker is using it as a signature, a way to identify that something is made by them.

My point is, if others think it looks "cool" and decide to begin doing the same thing, it waters down their brand or their signature, and soon they have nothing that makes them special.

So how about we just give them that, and not take it away from them?  Come up with another way to express OUR work, develop our own signature.  

Part of what drove me to make the initial post was that I've seen this happen in other areas of my life, so it isn't exclusive to leatherworkers.  Not by a long shot.

What I was hoping was to just stimulate some thought, some reflection, so that next time we see something that "looks cool" and are tempted to use it for ourselves that at least we think twice.  

There was no attack, no finger-pointing, we all have issues I'm sure, its part of the deal.

What bothers me is when there is a disagreement it immediately is identified as an attack.  How are we ever going to have civil discourse then?  Agreeing to disagree used to be a thing.  Not any longer.

[Mocivnik]

Well, I believe this thread turned wrong turn somewhere very soon, as it wasn't an idea to either discuss copyrights either copy the original author.

I am well aware, that there are some things/ways, that people spent a lot of time to understand/make/achieve and include a lot of anger, dissapointment and failure. But as long as I can see the "How do I do that" on Leatherwork board, I feel free to ask things as such, because I also asked which dye should I use for my leather projects (years ago, when I joined this forum). Well, I got the reply that Fiebings pro dye works best. Now, was either that a copy because I use same technique as someone else? Or is asking on how to do these funky shaped edges a simple asking for a direction?

If anyone does know how to do that and doesn't want to share this "from God hidden secret", I'm totally fine with it. It's every person's right. It's can be taken as sacred trick from Penn & Teller, I get it. But instead of receiving a lecture on "how not to copy anyone" I'd rather skip that tutorial.

 

Now, back on topic:

-I wasn't able to talk to the leathercrafter, who did that, becuase he has no information to reach, neither lives in my country.

-I don't want to copy that, I'm 80% interested in this as "how the hell is that even possible" and 20% on "oh yeah, I might use it someday" on some project. Depends also on many many other factors, but that's not the topic.

-I got already my own edge work (not a big deal, but it's slightly more round than everyone else's I believe), so I don't need an inspiration for that. I'm searching for more and more creative ways on how to "decorate/finish off" items as many options availible.

[Tugadude]

 

3 hours ago, Mocivnik said:

But instead of receiving a lecture on "how not to copy anyone" I'd rather skip that tutorial.

Wow, OK, sorry I said anything.  

It is clear that even with the best of intentions, my words are either in vain or mistaken by some as attacks.  

And so it goes.  

Based on the general reactions, in the future I'll just keep my opinions to myself.  They clearly aren't hitting the mark that I intended.

Last thing I want to do is create even more division.  So this is the last I'll say on the issue and I don't currently plan on participating much.  If and when I can provide some helpful information, I'll continue to do that.

If I sound a little "butt hurt" I guess it's because I am and I'm not afraid to admit it.  

And so it goes.

[Mocivnik]

3 hours ago, Tugadude said:

Wow, OK, sorry I said anything.  

It is clear that even with the best of intentions, my words are either in vain or mistaken by some as attacks.  

And so it goes.  

Based on the general reactions, in the future I'll just keep my opinions to myself.  They clearly aren't hitting the mark that I intended.

Last thing I want to do is create even more division.  So this is the last I'll say on the issue and I don't currently plan on participating much.  If and when I can provide some helpful information, I'll continue to do that.

If I sound a little "butt hurt" I guess it's because I am and I'm not afraid to admit it.  

And so it goes.

That cut-out didnt apply to all comments.

[fredk]

Right; lets get back on track. The photos are too small for me to see the edges properly. However, some look like heavy cord was wrapped around the sheath and pulled tight. The leather was wet and as the cord was pulled tight it 'bit' or pressed into the edges making the indentations and as it did so the leather on each side of the indent was pushed away and up wards. The edge of the leather can be slicked before this and it would remain so