JLSleather

Cuz taxes didn't suck enough ...

Recommended Posts

What are we doing about the EVER INCREASING number of states requiring tax collection on "out of state" sales?  First of Feb (19) adds some more.  You Alybammy folk, I'm talkin' bout the revenuers ;)

Yes, I know many will put their head in the sand and ignore it.. I mean the actual businesses.  Really not necessary to reply to say "i'm a hobby, so I act like I didnt' get any money from it". 

I'm not the ignore the issue guy, but I'm also not the global conglomerate with teams of tax lawyers to handle all that in my absence. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know what we're going to do about it but I do know it is just another batch of red tape that will drive some small businesses out. Too much paper work, too many different rules and rates in the different states and counties/cities within the states....frustrating to say the least. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And you though us a nasty sods for taxing your Tea, how things change in 200 years

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seem to remember they took all of our mineral rich real-estate at the same time...

:crazy:

Just kidding guys, some of my best friends are American ;)

H

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, much of it is based in the same old HYPE provided by "stores" and retailers about how they have "overhead" and other expenses "legitimate" for jacking up the prices of their often sub-standard "goods".  Basically, locals don't want you buying online crap tax free (and now days often free shipping too) because then you might buy less of THEIR crap!  And some are willing to spend CRAZY money "lobbying" to make sure you can't do that.  Because 'use tax' wasn't good enough?

I have no objection to "buy local".. if the charge is legit. But don't tell me about your "fancy smancy" lease payments, or franchise fees, your new car payment, blahblah.. all the "reasons" your $2 crap costs $14.  I know $2 stuff when I see it ;)  If I'm buying in another state, it's because the locals either don't have what I need, or what they have is a sub-par version of what I need.

But bottom line is, here we are.  I guess the tax guys and the lawyers gonna make more money (again), I just don't have the time to keep up on the way-too-regular changes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two things you can't get way from Taxes and Death, that's right they have a tax on that to.

kgg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know about the USA but in England the shops are closing up left right and center, meaning the revenue to the local council in what we call rates is well down , so strong efforts now to tax the online establishment who have had quite a easy time up to now to pay there fair share, 

Perceived value as you say can be just great marketing; and not a guarantee of quality, and cheap prices can be high quality if labour and other manufacturing costs are very low

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, VYO said:

Too much paper work, too many different rules and rates in the different states and counties/cities within the states

99 counties in Iowa, but fortunately most of them have nearly identical tax rates.  And it isn't "bad" compared to some.  But we're one of those beginning to apply tax on purchases that didn't have that before. 

Somehow, the people that other people were ignorant enough to elect got the idea that YOUR job is making sure THEY get paid.  They seem to know what they want, problem is they think YOU should pay for it :rofl:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oregon voted and won against a sales tax but we still have to do taxes for the other states who voted for it. Such is life - death and taxes, no way around either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can sum it all up with just one word.... AMAZON

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's see now:

50 states and 3 or 4 territories, plus the District of Columbia. Each is a separate taxing entity.

Each state has counties (usually several dozen each). Each is a separate taxing entity.

Each county has incorporated cities and towns (frequently several each). Each is a separate taxing entity.

Then there are fire protection districts, ambulance & emergency medical districts, library districts, transportation (bus, train, subway) districts, metro districts, municipal utilities, and several other types of taxing entities.

Postal zip codes frequently span multiple taxing entities, so a customer's address is not an accurate means of identifying appropriate taxing entities or tax rates.

How is a small business or mom & pop shop expected to identify each and every one, calculate the taxes for each, maintain accountability for collected tax revenues, file appropriate tax returns (hundreds and hundreds of those every month or quarter), and remit collected taxes to every taxing entity?

If a given taxing entity makes a complaint against a business about taxes collected or remitted that complaint will usually be handled by local authorities. How is Joe Businessman in Maryland supposed to respond and deal with such a complaint in California? Answer: pay an attorney or suffer a default judgement and tax lien.

Without doubt, complying with such laws and regulations would be an extensive and expensive exercise, well beyond the capabilities of most small business operations. The likely result will be the destruction of countless smaller businesses across the country.

Bad ideas make for bad law. Bad law makes for angry and disaffected citizens. Bad law, such as this, may also fuel a vast underground economy that is beyond any possible enforcement effort.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have basically one tax. Called V.A.T.  - Value Added Tax. Four rates in UK, 20% on nearly everything, 5% on fuels like coal, electricity, 0% on books and such and 'exempt' on things like food and baby clothes. Business' only levies and collects VAT when their turnover is above a certain amount = about £35,000 p/a afair

Big Limited companies pay a Corporation Tax on profits but small business' like your 'mom & pop' shops do not. Brick and mortar business also pay 'rates' a local tax for town/city services

As a small business working from home the only tax I have to pay is on my earned income.

I remember being stuck in an area of New York [called Jamaica !] years ago. I was in-between flights and for reasons I was down to my last $10. I went to a McD for a meal. Most everything was priced at 99c. Great, I thought. So I worked out a meal costing about $6 - as I thought, but it cost me $9.80 or so with all the local, city and state taxes added!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the turnover limit is 85,000 not 35000 fred

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

aye, you could be right. Its still well above what most small business' make though

and I forgot, you lot have local council taxes, which we don't have, :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So meanwhile here in the US they will probably have to hire some more inefficient workers & then have to build larger buildings (gotta spend the $$ you know) to track the non-payers down & I'm sure they will devise some penalty or interest for non-compliers!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Iowa had us charging tax on sales within iowa and any other state where we have a presence, which is currently NONE.  99 counties with their own discretion at local option.  State tax is 6%. ALMOST all the counties add 1% local tax, total of 7%.  Its relatively painless.

As of Feb, Iowans pay sales tax on purchases from other states.  This is IOWA collecting a tax on goods shipped to IA, NOT the state sending the goods collecting tax.  States doing this incl [but no limited to] WA, SD, IA, OK, MN, ... i forget the rest.  So FL, for example, is now required to collect tax on purchases shipped to IA, even though they HAVE NO sales tax in FL :crazy:  So they collect sales tax on goods shipped to IA, but in IA we do not charge tax on goods sent to FL .

Now - my personal OPINION admittedly not supported by actual knowledge - many people on THIS site will claim the dummy rule, sometimes called "plead ignorance".  On top of the "i didn't know" crowd will be some others -  when ordering materials, many like to say "Im a business" and when tax is due that same person claim "im just a hobby". 

Whatever - Im not the tax enforcement.  But I know for a fact that Cutesy, Ebay, and Amazon are all collecting and remitting sales tax ON BEHALF OF the people who sell on those sites.  I bought something on Ebay recently and the seller was surprised to see I was charged tax.  So I don't think it will take too long before what those sites report and what the individual sellers report clearly don't match... and then it will get far more interesting.

Edited by JLSleather

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the UK some business' show the price of goods including tax, and some don't, eg Le Prevo Leather. But in the end everyone pays that same VAT [tax] and no extra. Some business' can reclaim VAT paid on the stuff they bought. An example; one of the business I owned published magazines and booklets. We paid VAT [tax] on film, processing, cameras, computers et cetera, but magazines are 0 rated so I could claim back all the VAT I'd paid out. When I sold the magazines into other European Union countries they did not [with one exception] impose any tax on the magazine even tho they had a tax on mags produced in their country

What I'm reading here is the US States are acting like individual countries, not as members of one great big country, with free-trade between States but imposing 'import & export' tariffs. Whereas the individual countries of Europe are acting like they are part of one country with free flow of trade and recognising that VAT paid in one member country is tax paid

All this must really stifle any growth in any small business. It sounds like the amount of paperwork needed just to sell to someone in another state is a real burden and I guess the IRS is rather unforgiving of mistakes. We joke that our IR&C are hard nosed and bandits but they aren't bad really

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 1:57 PM, fredk said:

In the UK some business' show the price of goods including tax, and some don't, eg Le Prevo Leather. But in the end everyone pays that same VAT [tax] and no extra. Some business' can reclaim VAT paid on the stuff they bought. An example; one of the business I owned published magazines and booklets. We paid VAT [tax] on film, processing, cameras, computers et cetera, but magazines are 0 rated so I could claim back all the VAT I'd paid out. When I sold the magazines into other European Union countries they did not [with one exception] impose any tax on the magazine even tho they had a tax on mags produced in their country

What I'm reading here is the US States are acting like individual countries, not as members of one great big country, with free-trade between States but imposing 'import & export' tariffs. Whereas the individual countries of Europe are acting like they are part of one country with free flow of trade and recognising that VAT paid in one member country is tax paid

All this must really stifle any growth in any small business. It sounds like the amount of paperwork needed just to sell to someone in another state is a real burden and I guess the IRS is rather unforgiving of mistakes. We joke that our IR&C are hard nosed and bandits but they aren't bad really

The recent efforts to collect sales taxes (similar to the UK VAT) has become an issue in the United States since the growth of the internet and on-line shopping. Such purchases have undoubtedly reduced sales and tax revenues from traditional brick and mortar stores across the country, and the various states and local authorities are attempting to replace those lost tax revenues by attaching taxes on internet sales.

The United States of America has always been a collection of individual states, each functioning as the primary government within its borders. Originally the national government was charged only with national defense, postal services, foreign affairs, and regulation of interstate commerce. This system of governance was called "federalism".

Starting in the 1930's under the administration of Pres. Franklin D. Roosevelt the national government began usurping state and local powers, centralizing authority at the national level. This was usually accomplished by subsidies and revenue sharing schemes, essentially offering state and local political authorities large pots of federal dollars in exchange for surrendering state and local control. This has been going on for 3 full generations of Americans now and most simply do not recall that we were intended to have far more control over our own affairs than has become the norm under federal control.

Hence, a Department of Education dictating school curricula and enforcing compliance with funding; a Department of Health, Education and Welfare dictating local benefit programs and enforcing compliance with funding; an Environmental Protection Agency with near-dictatorial powers over land use, development, etc, enforcing compliance with funding; and many more centrally-run programs that are used to control local government affairs (and elections) via funding, or threatening to cut off funding. None of these functions or entities are mentioned in or authorized by the US Constitution, and are thus of questionable legality to begin with; however no one seriously challenges such government over-reach because to do so threatens the primary revenue stream of state and local governments.

Here in the US our form and systems of government are fundamentally different than any others. Everything is based upon our Constitution as the bedrock of law, and the Constitution serves primarily to constrain government while guaranteeing the rights of individual citizens and the various states. Perhaps needless to say, many politicians do not like having their powers and authorities limited, and the debate over the constitutionality (legal basis) of laws and programs is never-ending (I am sure confusing, if not comical, to European observers).

So, a bit of an answer to your questions and a long-winded dissertation on American government and polity.

Best regards.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now