Cobra vs Cowboy

[dikman]

Simple solution Bert - leave her home when you buy a machine.

[Bert51]

Sadly, I need a little help with the driving. My days of driving 1200 k's and only stopping for fuel and drink are well and truly over.

Used to drive from Ceduna to Norseman over night, once a pond a time.

Bert.

[RemingtonSteel]

16 hours ago, JJN said:

Make sure they find all the feet, needle plates and bobbins that they have. I think I may see the instruction manuals in the photo. Order some fresh lily white sewing machine oil. I think you scored a very nice machine. I hope it turns out to be as good as it seems when you inspect it in person.

I did ask the seller about other accessories and he said that it did have additional feet and some other items, but he was not able to verify what they all were at the time. I am hoping one of them is a roller edge guide as well.  Correct, there is what looks to be a "Operations & Parts" manual behind the head as well as other documentation below the table top in a red folder. I don't want to get my hope up too high, but I have to admit that I feel like a kid the night before Christmas and it is just not going to come soon enough.

14 hours ago, nylonRigging said:

Cool you got the bigboy 16" arm . you will like it . I got a 16" longarm flatbed single needle and all that extra room is nice sometimes .

Just a HeadsUp .. You got to carry it up any stairs when you get home  ?? ...LOL . . That Pro2000 16" head , is going to a lot heavier than you think when you put your back into it to pick it up and carry to your truck .

Yes very excited about the 16" arm.  I was only going to be able to afford a 9" arm if I purchased new.  3 steps from garage to first floor.  I used to build house, so I have never been adverse to lifting heavy objects.  Now that I am getting just a little bit older, maybe a hand truck or furniture dolly is in order.

13 hours ago, MikeRock said:

Be double damned sure you restrain the head securely if on the front seat.....  seat belts and maybe even a ratchet strap around the seat back.  One emergency stomp on the brakes and the head could be junk.....  Been there and it hurt.  It was an expensive butchers scale.....  was...

On the floor in the back seat all the way!

14 hours ago, Bert51 said:

When I pick up a new to me machine, I put the head in the car, normally behind the drivers seat wrapped in an old sheet on the floor, (if it has a sump I drain the oil and sit it back in the sump). Then I remove everything on the top of the table and remove it from the legs, leaving the motor and other bits in place, turn it upside down and place it on a old blanket in the back, undo the legs if I can and put them with the upside down table.

If the arm reach is stated at 16 1/2 inches, I would have to imagine that that the overall length would be about 24 inches.  What about this idea:  I get a heavy duty storage container, and set the head in the container on it base with some support under the arm to keep it from tipping forward. Then pack heavy duty bubble wrap (or something similar) between the container and the front side and between the container and the back side of the head... kind of sandwich it in? May be overthinking this, but I don't want to turn a good deal into a bad deal by have to replace parts that were damaged in transport.  Also have several moving blankets to use as well.

14 hours ago, dikman said:

Exciting times ahead!

Definitely!

Going from hand stitching to machine stitching... now I just have to figure out what thread type to use, what thread size to use, what needle type to use, what needle size to use, and myriad of other new factors that will come into play with machine stitching. Oh and did I mention I have to learning how to use the machine. Fortunately, I am good with computers, machinery, and tools and have this wonderful site to reference.  

FYI, most of my hand stitching is done with 1.0 mm Ritza Tiger thread and John James harness needles on a hundred plus year old stitching horse I found at an antique store. 

[Bert51]

My Adler 105 traveled nearly 1000 k's home wrapped up behind my seat and arrived home safe and sound, wish my back was as good. Packed tight in the tub, it should travel well home.

Bert.

[shoepatcher]

I always recommend taking the head off the table when transporting a machine.  Too many things can happened and almost all of them are bad.   I have purchased and move a few machines in my 40 plus years doing this.

glenn

[Colt W Knight]

On 11/19/2019 at 1:29 PM, Ken Nelson said:

have problems and you can pull down a manua

I transported a machine in table one time, strapped down well, and vibrations broke all the welds on the table cross members and reinforcement bars. Head was fine. I would never do it again. Now I am imagining all the screws backing off and falling off on the highway. Man I got lucky.

 

 

 

[RemingtonSteel]

37 minutes ago, Colt W Knight said:

I transported a machine in table one time, strapped down well, and vibrations broke all the welds on the table cross members and reinforcement bars. Head was fine. I would never do it again. Now I am imagining all the screws backing off and falling off on the highway. Man I got lucky.

Yet another compelling reason to alway transport with head taken off the table and stored securely.  I am glad it did not damage your head, but it sounds like the table took a beating.

[CowboyBob]

I could tell stories all day about machine "accidents" The best one a customer was bringing a real nice 30" long machine in for trade.We really need it for a customer & offered him a good price for it.So he comes in the store looking sad & says I don't know if you'll want the machine anymore.I asked why? He said well I almost missed a turn, was going fast,hit the brakes & turned & the table flipped to the side of the bed & the ma machine fell onto the road & broke in half.

 

I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't tie it down,esp when they are so top heavy,which is one good reason to take the head out of the table,that & it is a lot easier to load.

[RockyAussie]

Normally when I strap/rope something down you could turn the trailer or vehicle upside down and not lose the load. It DOES NOT work with sewing machines as I have learnt the hard way. Even with the head out they want to not stay upright and laying them on mattresses can still bend things around I found. I say get some blocks of wood and tape them to the back of the head until laying down they can not bend anything. If they are laying down they cant fall and break and bend things but still they'll slide around if you don't secure it more than you can imagine. Putting one of those rubber toothy door mats under helps some as well.

[Bert51]

Most of my machine come home behind the drivers seat and the reason being I pack and wedge them in place so I get no movement.

I have Juki 555-5 here that I am fixing for friend that fell off the rear seat, broke and damaged most of the tension assemblies and thread take up and now he has to get his seat repair where the machine caught it going down when he hit the brakes.

If he listened to me and put it behind the seat, he would be using it instead of waiting for parts.

[RemingtonSteel]

So I drove the 2 1/2 hours to look at the machine.  It was clean, as in free of grease and grime on the unit itself, but there was/is  a layer of dust that needs to be cleaned off, as the machine was stored without a dust cover.  The machine sewed some 10/12 oz leather with 277 thread quite easily, with clean even stitches front and back. There was a little squeeking, but I think that was comming from the speed reducer. I was actually surprised at how well I could control the machine even with the clutch motor. The unit had been setup near a large picture window, so the plastic edging on the table is cracked and coming apart, and the plastic bases of the thread spool holders were cracking and falling apart as well. 

The price was so good, I had to take a chance on the unit.  I think with a thorough cleaning and oiling this machine will serve me well for many years.  For the price I paid, I have plenty of money left to replace the plastic parts, buy some additional accessories and a servo motor as well.  So I took the head off and placed it on the floor behind the rear seat with plenty of padding. Then I removed the table top from the base and laid the top face down on a blanket. By doing this, the motor was resting on the table top, not hanging from it so there was no need to remove it or the reducer from the table top.

I made it home safe and sound with no issue, and I am now the proud owner of a Ferdco Pro 2000 . I will probably need to start a new thread on cleanup and setup! Thanks for everyone’s help and support in buying my first machine.

[JJN]

@RemingtonSteel, I am very glad to hear your trip was successful and my CL suggestion panned out. If possible I would like to see a photo of all the accessories that came with it. My Ferdco came with only a left toe foot set installed and a smooth needle plate. No feed dog, just a needle guide that Ferdco invented. I also have the large plate to the right of the needle with the rectangular opening in it. I assume it is for an adjustable edge guide but have never seen one. I would love to see a photo of that guide so I can reproduce it.

One more thing. I bought a full set of of feet, left, right, double toe, and blanket with both smooth and toothed feed dogs. I also bought 3 different needle/throat plates. I had to make some adjustments because the new style feet are taller than the Ferdco feet.

There have been some posts on this forum for sources for the plastic table edge trim.

[dikman]

Well done, RS. I'd like to see what bits you got with it too, just out of curiosity.

[Bert51]

Talking control with a clutch motor, I think they are getting bad reputation, because of being setup incorrectly. It sounds like your new machine is setup is adjusted good, please don't run out and buy a new servo motor as you may not need it and the money could be use to buy different feet or toys for you new machine.

Most setups I have seen, have the tension of a car fan belt and motor is many years old and never seen any lubrication at all on the moving parts of the clutch. I have my Adler 105 and Singer 132K6 on clutch motors with 50mm pulleys and have no problem with speed control, but I have been told I have loose belts on the machines. My foot peddle is very light to the touch.

Bert.

[bruce johnson]

I'm a little late to this party, but have the same Ferdco 2000. When I bought a previous machine, a wise man on this forum (Art Van Hecke) advised me to buy every foot and plate available. He said I'd probably end up using them all and they don't get cheaper after the machine sale. I did the same when I bought  my 2000. Realize this was back in the day when this very machine sold for north of $5000 for the head, stand, reducer. and clutch motor, no accessories but maybe a light. Specialty plates and feet were about $650 and later Ron added a sole stitching foot. Servo motors were about 5 years in the future. I got one later. It has sewed a ton and still tight. 

JJN asked about the roller guides. I've attached pictures. The block slides onto the plate on the machine, There are two arms - one has a double roller for straight work. One has a single roller for scalloped pieces or tight inside curves. They slide into the block and secure with a set screw on top. There is also a sliding collar with a set screw on the arm shaft  for repeated widths. 

 

[JJN]

@bruce johnson, thank you very much for the photos. That is just what I needed. It looks like the post is 5/8" square stock with two 1/4" wide by .025" deep grooves cut about 1/8" from the bottom. Drill  a hole for the guide rod and drill and tap a hole for the set screw. If anyone has an extra one for sale, I am interested. I have the base plate.

[RemingtonSteel]

20 hours ago, JJN said:

I am very glad to hear your trip was successful and my CL suggestion panned out.

JJN, yes, I can't even begin to thank you enough. 

So not as many accessories as I thought there might be.  I see that Bruce Johnson already posted the picture of the two types of roller guides, and those are exactly the ones that came with mine. In addition to that I have the wide center toes as well as the wide double toe presser feet as pictured in Bruce's second photo, as well as the dark needle plate.  Those were loose in the stand drawer along with a second bobbin.  Installed on the unit is a narrower center toe with a narrow left foot, and a shinny needle plate.  Not sure what the difference between the two needle plates are as of yet.  Other than that, there was the wax lube pot that was installed on the unit as well as an extra wax lube pot, not sure why he had two. There were also 5five fair sized spools of bonded nylon thread, but they probably have had so much sun exposure that they are not worth using except for practice.

18 hours ago, Bert51 said:

don't run out and buy a new servo motor as you may not need it

I was planning on playing with the clutch motor for a while before I decide if I would like to upgrade to a servo motor or not. The only negative I see right now to the clutch motor is that there appears to be only one speed (unless you feather the clutch), which is actually slower than I thought it would be due to the speed reducer. I think I would be comfortable sewing the long sides of belts at a little faster pace, although the slower speed is still 100 times faster than hand stitching a belt.

17 hours ago, bruce johnson said:

Realize this was back in the day when this very machine sold for north of $5000 for the head, stand, reducer. and clutch motor, no accessories but maybe a light.

Bruce is correct.  The back page of the owner's manual, doubles as the warranty card, which has my unit's serial number and purchase date, which was November 11, 2000.  There was some various other literature that came with manual, one of which is a price sheet from Ferdco, dated FEB 2000.  The Pro 2000 Head Only sold for $5,145.00, and the Complete Package (Head, Stand, Motor, Speed Reducer and Accessory Kit) sold for $5,695.00. and with the Attachment Package $6,695.00.

FYI, The Ferdco Pro 2000 looks like it was sold in five different configurations.  

• Pro 2000
• Pro 2000H
• Pro 2000 FB
• Pro 2000 HFB
• Pro 2000HHFB

H: High Lift --- FB: Flat Bed --- HFB: High Lift Flat Bed --- HHFB: Super High Lift Flat Bed  with the HHFB topping out at $7095.00 complete.

This should be an eye opener for everyone (including me) that thinks the price of the new machines is a little high, and are looking for ways to get the price down even further. I think everyone in the community really owes Cobra, Cowboy, Techsew, Artisan and any others that I may have missed, a huge debt of gratitude for jumping into the ring, because the competition really drove the prices down.  If they had not, I probably would have needed to pay around $4,500 or more for this used Ferdco. Although the original owner's of Ferdco were probably not happy about the competition. as this is most likely what almost drove them out of business, and spurred the sale of the business to Hoffman Brothers.

17 hours ago, JJN said:

It looks like the post is 5/8" square stock with two 1/4" wide by .025" deep grooves cut about 1/8" from the bottom.

I have some digital calipers, and would be willing to take some precise measurements if you would like.

[housewifer]

On 11/25/2019 at 8:14 PM, RemingtonSteel said:

JJN, yes, I can't even begin to thank you enough. 

So not as many accessories as I thought there might be.  I see that Bruce Johnson already posted the picture of the two types of roller guides, and those are exactly the ones that came with mine. In addition to that I have the wide center toes as well as the wide double toe presser feet as pictured in Bruce's second photo, as well as the dark needle plate.  Those were loose in the stand drawer along with a second bobbin.  Installed on the unit is a narrower center toe with a narrow left foot, and a shinny needle plate.  Not sure what the difference between the two needle plates are as of yet.  Other than that, there was the wax lube pot that was installed on the unit as well as an extra wax lube pot, not sure why he had two. There were also 5five fair sized spools of bonded nylon thread, but they probably have had so much sun exposure that they are not worth using except for practice.

I was planning on playing with the clutch motor for a while before I decide if I would like to upgrade to a servo motor or not. The only negative I see right now to the clutch motor is that there appears to be only one speed (unless you feather the clutch), which is actually slower than I thought it would be due to the speed reducer. I think I would be comfortable sewing the long sides of belts at a little faster pace, although the slower speed is still 100 times faster than hand stitching a belt.

Bruce is correct.  The back page of the owner's manual, doubles as the warranty card, which has my unit's serial number and purchase date, which was November 11, 2000.  There was some various other literature that came with manual, one of which is a price sheet from Ferdco, dated FEB 2000.  The Pro 2000 Head Only sold for $5,145.00, and the Complete Package (Head, Stand, Motor, Speed Reducer and Accessory Kit) sold for $5,695.00. and with the Attachment Package $6,695.00.

FYI, The Ferdco Pro 2000 looks like it was sold in five different configurations.  

• Pro 2000
• Pro 2000H
• Pro 2000 FB
• Pro 2000 HFB
• Pro 2000HHFB

H: High Lift --- FB: Flat Bed --- HFB: High Lift Flat Bed --- HHFB: Super High Lift Flat Bed  with the HHFB topping out at $7095.00 complete.

This should be an eye opener for everyone (including me) that thinks the price of the new machines is a little high, and are looking for ways to get the price down even further. I think everyone in the community really owes Cobra, Cowboy, Techsew, Artisan and any others that I may have missed, a huge debt of gratitude for jumping into the ring, because the competition really drove the prices down.  If they had not, I probably would have needed to pay around $4,500 or more for this used Ferdco. Although the original owner's of Ferdco were probably not happy about the competition. as this is most likely what almost drove them out of business, and spurred the sale of the business to Hoffman Brothers.

I have some digital calipers, and would be willing to take some precise measurements if you would like.

All the information you have given has been very useful. It worked for me. Thank you.