Will Leather Sewing Machines Ever Go High-Tech?

[NewfoundlandLaw]

Hey All

As a newbie to leather working, I have purchased 2 new heavy duty leather machines in the past year. The first was a Cobra Class 4 and the second was a TechSew 2750 Pro.  
 

While I absolutely love the quality and bullet proof nature of these machines, I often use a Brother SE600 to attach edge strips to the top lip of my bags. (Usually simple binding edges.)  Switching from the SE600 to one of my dedicated leather machines makes me feel like I've gone back in time 100 years.  This gets even worse when I use my mother-in-laws Bernina 570QE with crazy options like digitally adjustable pressure controls.

 

Do you guys/gals think heavy-duty compound walking foot machines will ever go "high-tech" with LCD screens, multi position programmable foot controllers and dozens of stitch options?  I was originally hesitant with high-tech sewing machines, but after using the SE600 and the Bernina 570QE, I have to say that things like automatic stitch locking and thread cutting sure are nice   

 

[mikesc]

I hope not..
I have auto thread cutting , auto back stitching to lock threads at the beginning and end of runs on my old Juki DLU 490-4..
I have removed the auto thread cutting and disabled the auto backstitching etc..
re the LCD panels, automation etc..those are available on high speed garment industrials..and on some of the "non clone" heavy duty machines..
When they ( the LCD panels, or the circuit boars and chip, or the automation )go wrong..replacing them can cost half the cost of a new version of the same machine..and parts such as these are rarely "in stock" and have to come from..

China..and that means..that just like almost everything at the moment..it is gonna be a long long wait..as the factories are shut..due to Covid 19..and that could happen again..and again..and again etc

If you bring manufacturing "home"..allow for 3 to 5 years minimum to set up the factories..tooling up and training skilled workers to make what is used to make the machines..

While I absolutely love the quality and bullet proof nature of these machines, I often use a Brother SE600 to attach edge strips to the top lip of my bags. (Usually simple binding edges.) Switching from the SE600 to one of my dedicated leather machines makes me feel like I've gone back in time 100 years. This gets even worse when I use my mother-in-laws Bernina 570QE with crazy options like digitally adjustable pressure controls.

Where were they made ?..Where are the spare parts for them held ? ..China.. Cross your fingers that nothing more than a needle breaks on them..otherwise you'll be in for a very very long wait.

[mikesc]

Some the Juki industrial line up many with all the lCDs and automation that you could want.far more than on domestic machines..

Apparel
Juki Industrial Apparel Machines

Leather flat beds
Juki Industrial Leather Machines..flat bed models

You'll find more such as cylinder models etc in the side navigation there..Adler and other manufacturers have similar..and machines can be made for specific applications

Edited February 26, 2020 by mikesc

[Gunnarsson]

The more technology you put in a machine, the more things in it can (and will) fail. Manufacturers will only supply the parts for so long (remember, they make a living from selling new machines) so a complicated machine is bound to die as parts become unavailable or it breaks down too often so the machine becomes unusable in a production setting.

There are >100 year old sewing machines out there still going strong, and many parts in such a machine can be refurbished or replaced if you just can work metal. The moment you add computers and such specialised electronics to a machine you limit it's life span to how long you build the electronics to last, and intend to supply it as spare parts (which may be not at all, for some chinese manufacturers). Ten, perhaps twenty years?

There are servo motors with needle positioning, adjustable max speed and so on, so you can get some technology even on "dumb" stone age machines. It will also break eventually, but the thing about sewing machine motors is that you can get a new universal one to replace it tomorrow.

There are of course machines that have to have computers, such as embroidery machines. A friend has (or had) an older one, I think it uses floppy discs to transfer the design from computer to sewing machine. The machine itself is probably easy to keep running, but the day the electronics fail it's most likely going to the dumpster. 

[Constabulary]

2nd what  Gunnarsson said. If you run a "sewing business" with lots of output some electronic or computerized feature are probably nice and time (money) saving and machines are often written off after 5 years. If you have a small business or you are a hobbyist keep the things simple. Simple things are living longer most of the time and cause less trouble - often you can fix the simple things by your self and the more complicated the things (sewing machines) are the more you have to "outsource" the service and repairs.

KISS - keep it stupid simple!

 

Edited February 26, 2020 by Constabulary

[Gregg From Keystone Sewing]

I thought this was going to be another 'I invented the bobbinless lockstitch' topic.  

[Kcstott]

I thought never hand stitching again was high tech? 
seriously though, there are very high tech machines out there but they look nothing like a conventional sewing machine. Kinda like a production printing press looks nothing like a desk top printer. 
I think things are advanced enough for what I need. 
mid like to see better speed control on the servo motors but that’s just me. 

[BigSiouxSaddlery]

I'm going to echo the others and say "I sure hope not!"  If you used one of the many heavy leather stitchers still in use today that are a hundred years old, you'd think your new machines ARE high tech.  The difference is these new machines, particularly the Chinese so-called clones, with the same amount of use as the vintage ones saw, will not be sewing a hundred years from now.

[Kcstott]

3 hours ago, BigSiouxSaddlery said:

I'm going to echo the others and say "I sure hope not!"  If you used one of the many heavy leather stitchers still in use today that are a hundred years old, you'd think your new machines ARE high tech.  The difference is these new machines, particularly the Chinese so-called clones, with the same amount of use as the vintage ones saw, will not be sewing a hundred years from now.

The company I work for Solar Turbines San Diego manufactures some very large round pieces of exotic metal and supper alloy parts. Not to mention the run of the mill cast iron and stainless. We have machines that are 50 years old or older retrofitted with NC control (now CNC for the younger crowd) the older machines are typically more reliable than the newer ones outside of the Mori Seki and Mazaks and operators that crash them. but that's not the machines fault. The reason any new machine typically doesn't last as long as the older ones is very simple. Labor and materials 50 or 100 years ago was far cheeper than is is today. Labor is also not valued as much as it was 50 or 100 years ago. How many people wear hand made shoes anymore? when was the last time you commissioned anything? Leather craft has proven there is still a respect for finely crafted goods. Industrial machines are considered disposable by the people that buy them. They typically are disposable when you run them at 150% of their capacity and delay maintenance due to production needs. Any good machine will appear to be a POS to someone that doesn't know any better. I don't know what it would take to make a Cobra Class 4 last 100 years but with proper maintenance im sure it could. 

 

[chuck123wapati]

High tech isn't the answer, I haven't seen anything it really  helped for the consumer.

[Gunnarsson]

18 hours ago, Kcstott said:

I don't know what it would take to make a Cobra Class 4 last 100 years but with proper maintenance im sure it could. 

The main casting on most sewing machines is probably good for it. And all the rest is just parts you can replace, as required. 

[NewfoundlandLaw]

On 2/28/2020 at 8:12 AM, Gunnarsson said:

The main casting on most sewing machines is probably good for it. And all the rest is just parts you can replace, as required. 

I think with regular oiling/maintenance my Cobra Class 4 or TechSew 2750 would easily out-live me.  It's really cool to see machines made in this day and age built with such quality. 
 

I am a fan of new technology.  I look at my Brother SE600, (cheap $500 machine which is extremely popular), and would love to have even 10% of its  options on a new leather capable machine.  Even a small selection of stitch patterns would be cool in a sub $5K machine. 
 

As for Bernina, they are a very high-end Swiss Company with an amazing reputation in the sewing world.  They are the only fabric sewing machine company I know of with customer service on par with companies like Cobra, Cowboy or TechSew.  Their machines are very pricey, but the build quality is stunning.  The only thing I can liken it to is my Wife's AMG Merccedes in terms of overall engineering. 
 

While I do long for a more feature laden machine for under $5k, I've been truly amazed by the customer service offered by TechSew and Cobra.  If I had to choose between high-tech features or stellar customer service, I'd pick customer service every time. 

[billybopp]

I doubt we'll see TOO much high tech on heavy duty machines that are affordable.  They're really built for industrial use where they will have specialized machines for each purpose, rather than multi-purpose machines as home light machines are.  Industrial leather machines have really beefy components, and to make those parts move back and forth the way a light duty home machine with fancy stitch patterns does would require super-beefy and really expensive parts and engineering.   Not to say it's impossible, but probably prohibitively expensive.  

- Bill

[mikesc]

It has been a while since Bernina's domestic machines were actually built in Switzerland..The pre "digital ones" were the last..and even then some of that pre digital production was being run in Thailand..

http://edgestitch.com/2018/02/where-is-this-sewing-machine-made/

They do ( did..been a long while since they stopped making it ) make a very nice industrial model ( smaller than the usual size industrial..similar in size to the Singer 20U series )with meta cams that sail makers and lingerie makers swear by for the triple step zig- zag..Nechi also do one , but the Bernina is nicer..

I agree with Bill..just look at the starting prices of the Juki's that have some digital programmed stitches available..and the cost of industrial embroidery machines..

Edited February 29, 2020 by mikesc
edited to correct China to Thailand..momentarily confused them with Husqvarna ( now part of SVP / Viking )who also own Singer and Pfaff.

[Colt W Knight]

Adler has some pretty techy stuff out now 

 

 

[mikesc]

Sailmaker friend of mine runs one of the newer very techy Adlers..long arm model with more automation than most cars..costs more than most new cars do too :)

[chrisash]

They have become Hi-Tec when you install the latest servo motor

[keithski122]

Vetron are getting pretty high tech.

 

[sbrownn]

I love "old iron" and every time I step up to my 125 year old Campbell Randall it makes my heart happy.  Then again, I love modern mechanical\electronic technology too and every time I throw my leg over my BMW 1250 GS it makes my heart race. 

[Hardrada]

Not into machines, but if I were, the last thing I'd need is having to download regular updates to it in order to keep it working.

[Wizcrafts]

2 hours ago, Hardrada said:

Not into machines, but if I were, the last thing I'd need is having to download regular updates to it in order to keep it working.

Ah yes, I can see it now... Wireless cards in sewing machines, downloading patches for firmware vulnerabilities and insecure open ports visible to hackers using the Shogun IoT scanner..

[Northmount]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

Ah yes, I can see it now... Wireless cards in sewing machines, downloading patches for firmware vulnerabilities and insecure open ports visible to hackers using the Shogun IoT scanner..

Hack into it and set the throttle full bore max speed!  Watch the operator with a built-in camera when the machine takes off.

Tom

[Hardrada]

1 hour ago, Wizcrafts said:

Ah yes, I can see it now... Wireless cards in sewing machines, downloading patches for firmware vulnerabilities and insecure open ports visible to hackers using the Shogun IoT scanner..

Forget about hackers, the worst enemy now is the manufacturer itself! Want your machine to spy on you? Sending packets back to the mothership with info on how many stitches you do per day, types of thread, and even your picture and fingerprints?

[mikesc]

I'm sorry Dave..I can't let you sew that.

[dikman]

. I even heard the voice of HAL when I read that!