Making N-95 type masks (sharing pattern to leather workers)

[hvxsilverstar]

Calling All People Who Sew And Make: You Can Help Solve 2020 N95-Type Mask Shortage
https://freesewing.org/blog/facemask-frenzy/

[mikesc]

We stopped all leatherwork and have been in production of these masks for around two and a half weeks already..

I think it is worth pointing out that the original pattern is from a lady in Malaysia.. Joanne.L and she released it for free over 6 years ago.

That is the original source of the pattern..( just giving credit to a lady whose  pattern is recommended by major hospitals facing Covid 19 )

https://www.craftpassion.com/face-mask-sewing-pattern/

Many French hospitals are asking for individuals and businesses such as ours to please make them..

As I mentioned in another thread here a few days ago..my wife is a health care worker, specialising in the care of the elderly ( those with Alzheimers, Dementia etc )in their own homes and in care homes )  in the front line of exposure to Covid 19..She and all other health workers around the world are in need of masks..as are those who are cleaners in the hospitals where the patients are being treated etc..

If you have a sewing machine..even a domestic will do..make masks..

If the lady ( Joanne.L ) at craft passion's website gets swamped..when / if  I have her permission*, we'll then be hosting the pattern (  we are making a variant of it, as are many other around the world ) on an unlimited server, which will be open to worldwide access..

*We are waiting to hear back from her..meanwhile, her pattern is available with instructions in English, and some of the posters in her comments section have translated versions in various languages..French translated versions are already online ( translated by medical staff and others at or connected to various French hospitals and health workers )..as are some other languages, but other / more languages are obviously needed.

Pm me here..and I'll give you an email address to send translated tutorials ( pdf preferred, but we can work with almost any format and convert it to pdf which is the most widely used ,and is the easiest to print at the correct size ) of her pattern to ( please note..the latest version of her pattern includes a "male / man's" pattern.. the original was for her kids.the elastic she mentions at 12" or 30 cms is too short for adults..you need to allow for  an elastic length ( unstretched ) of around 50 cm to 60cms ( for the version that goes around the back of the head ) for an adult.

We will ( if Joanne.L says it is OK for us to operate a "mirror" download ) not be putting it on facebook, twitter, or Google docs as all such services require you to "login" or "join" or "accept scripts " ( which actually means, allow them to follow you all over the internet for years )  to be able to download..and downloads will of course be entirely free and with no strings..just like Joanne.L made her original pattern back in 2013.

Thanks to the OP for mentioning masks, even if it was concerning someone else's site attempting to claim that they had the idea 1st..a few days ago ;).We were so busy making the masks that I was only looking in occasionally, and would not have been spurred to think of hosting a mirror of Joanne.L's pattern.

After midnight here now.. and has been a long day..so don't be surprised if anyone does not get a reply before late Saturday or Sunday ( my time..France )..If Joanne.L is OK with "mirrors" ( which will credit her as the original pattern maker ) and be free and require no "logins" , or allowing "scripting" or "tracking cookies" etc from the GAFAM etc..Then I'm thinking that any one who can help with their own "mirrors" on their own sites, would be welcome , as any website , anywhere, even the "big dogs of "social media", even allowing for all their redundancy, cloud flare and data centres all over the world )  can go dark for any number of technical reasons, not the  least of which is that the people who run some or all of the DCs and the ISPs etc across countries and continents may well be affected by covid 19..The internet is resilient, but only when it ( the data / info) is not all in one place or accessible via a few portals**, which is why none of us should rely on the big sites , Twitter, Facebook etc to be our only way of exchanging data..

**That was the original idea..not that everyone would all log into " the same huge social media few sites" to communicate with each other..Just in case things like pandemics etc happened.

Edited March 20, 2020 by mikesc

[Bert51]

Thank you.

Bert.

 

[Aven]

Thanks for posting this.

 

[motocouture]

Thanks for sharing, and for respecting the work and rights of the original pattern owner. Will likely make some of these for our daughter, who is currently working as a nurse’s aide here in PA

[mikesc]

Joanne L has been in touch with me..she has been swamped with emails about masks.She has upgraded her server to unlimited and so for now she is able to cope with all downloads of her pattern and access to her pages with the tutorial on her bandwidth.

https://www.craftpassion.com/face-mask-sewing-pattern/

Translations to other languages are still useful.

So for now a "mirror" is not required..I'll be watching her server to see if it stays up..and staying in contact with her.

We'll be continuing making only masks until they are no longer required, or until we run out of supplies of suitable textile.

If you can make masks..please do so..

Stay safe..follow what are called social distancing rules ..1 metre ( about 1yd ) between people, disinfect your hands frequently, especially if you have been out, avoid touching your face..avoid going out into contact with others unless it is strictly necessary..you can be infectious without showing any symptoms, and you can infect others, or be infected by them.

Edited March 22, 2020 by mikesc

[rodneywt1180b]

What kind of fabric do you use?  Also, thank you for your dedication to making them and for the link.

[Ferg]

I also am making masks. Wiz hit the nail on the head with the needle holes etc.

Use Quilting cotton. There are thousands of variations in the prints. Some of the cotton is of very light weight. I question a little if they will do much good with that potential problem.

I use my Consew 206 RB5 to attach the elastic. I convinced my wife to let me buy a new Singer Domestic, they are on sale. I have used a sewing machine since a very small child, learning to use them correctly is equally as difficult some times as the industrial leather machines. My intended use for the Singer was for making masks. A Non-Profit Organization within a few miles of our home will take all I can make, along with other folks. Some of the instructions and patterns are "iffy" in my estimation. One Video on the web has the lady saying you can just turn the mask around and use the other side. She also states that they are throw-away item. Neither opinion is true. I top stitch the seams on the outside and use a rolled hem on the edges that will have wear. Mine are open on both left and right side/ends so an N95 insert can be used if desired. Anything with the N95 designation is very difficult to come by, I only have ten of them so unless someone asks for them I won't be supplying them with the masks. Elastic is likewise difficult to find but it is out there if you can wait a month or so. We used 1/4" white ribbon for a product we made several years ago. We still have a number of rolls of it. When I run out of the elastic I have we will use the ribbon that can be tied behind the head and neck.

I made at least a dozen before I decided how I wanted to make mine. I use a piece of Floral Wire in the portion that fits over the nose so it can conform. The wire is embedded in a seam. We bend a little loop in the ends of the wire so it won't puncture a person's nose.

Am working on a batch of thirty now. Hope to have them finished so they can be delivered tomorrow. Tedious work for someone who dislikes repetition. Small inconvenience if it helps someone else.

BTW: These are washable.

Ferg

[lostcaggy]

This is an alternative site for making a re-usable mask with a description of differing filters https://diymask.site/

 

 

[mikesc]

I would also suggest reading some of the more recent comments on Joanne L's  page that I linked to above.

In particular someone posting recently there references this link..I didn't mention it in my previous post here because it is somewhat complex unless one has a medical or scientific background.

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep39956

Ferg ..Thankyou   ..the article there from a research team looking into ( back in 2017 ) ( and having 100% success rate ) into antiviral treatments to N95 type masks ( which normally offer no protection at all to corona viruses due to the size of the gaps in the polypropylene non woven filter layer in them..they are a 3 layer sandwich ..outer layer..filter layer..inner layer )..It is obviously better if the filter layer can be treated with a "salt crystal barrier* before the N95  type mask are manufactured, however many hundreds of millions, if not billions of them have already been made..and the production lines on the machinery in place is set up to use the polypropylene untreated..But, I have found that the standard N95 type mask can be "retro-treated" ..I have some, as my wife is a health care worker in daily contact with potential Covid 19 infected, ( and some actually infected ), geriatric patients in their own homes and in care homes here.

This involves simply making a saturated salt solution ( with a small amount of surfactant  ....the ubiquitous liquid "dish soap" will do, at about 20ml per litre of saturated salt solution ) and spraying it lightly ( enough to wet it ) on the outer surface of the N95 mask..and then allow the mask to air dry before wearing.

This is able to convert what was a basically useless mask , the N95 type, against the Covid 19 ( and other corona viruses ) into a highly protective mask ..there is  of course still the ^problem of "the fit"..N95s fit badly at the sides, and thus expose  the wearer to contamination that is not coming from the front..The mask type referred to here in France as FFP2 ( which is a mask made primarily from a laboratory filter paper type and is close fitting ( the kind of "beak mask" and it's variants ) ) gives better lateral protection..however even it would benefit from treating with the saturated salt solution..enough to coat it, but not to dissolve or weaken it. I've been treating her N95 masks just before she leaves the house  to begin her rounds, and also each fresh mask as she needs to change them..Normally the recommendation for an N95 type is to change them every 3 to 4 hours ( even given that in their unprepared state they are ineffectual gainst corona viruses)..due to the shortage of all masks ( even for heath care personel outside of the intensive care units in the hospitals ), she , and her colleagues have been dealing with Covid 19 for the past month with no masks at all until 7 days ago when they were issued with N95 type..but only at the rate of 2 per day..( 12 hour non stop working day ..in close contact with patients )..We had already been making washable textile masks ( with a "pocket" for filter paper than can physically filter out the virus size particles ) since early March ( I'd , as I said above stopped all other production to work on them )..and she was aware that the N95 is more "for show" and reassuring the patient than for any actual prevention use...As many of her patients have dementia in various forms ( Alzheimer's is only one form ) many are not aware at all that there is a pandemic, nor what a pandemic is, many do not remember who they are. reassuring them is important..they do not get panicked by the sight of a health worker wearing an N95 or any FFP2, the face covering textile mask is another matter, particularly as all the textile suppliers here are closed down, or not delivering and travel is forbidden ,  and my textile stock ( which is fast running out ) is black, or fluorescent orange, fluorescent yellow or fluorescent green.

When making any of our very rare excursions out for buying food or diesel etc, we have been wearing our production textile masks and washing them ( rotating 3 masks ..wear, wash , dry ) and then treating them with the salt saturated solution and a chlorhexidine biocide solution ( perfectly safe for skin contact, or to be breathed in, as is saturated salt solution, whether dried** or humid, and the two can be mixed )

* Doesn't need to be a solid barrier of crystals..just a saturated solution of salt impregnated will do..the crystals themselves are minute or microscopic..

**Because of the way that the saturated salt solution works in it's interaction with the virus, it is better if the solution has dried on the mask before the virus contacts it..it will still work if humid, but the effect is lessened..( IMO probably down to 70 to 80% effectiveness ) you'll understand why upon reading the research paper .

Btw..if you are making washable masks, with, or without the "pockets" then polypropylene as the padding or filter will do fine..if they are for sterilising with heat ( as in hospital use ) then the pocket version is better, as whatever you use for a filter layer can be removed and replaced before the mask goes through the hot wash..if you use the salt barrier treatment make sure to re-do it before wearing the mask again..I find it easiest  to supply masks in sets of 3 ( each with a colour code stripe*** ) so that the wearer ( do not wear someone else's mask ) is able to identify easily which mask is the next one in the sequence that is to be worn..orange striped mask today, ( "todays" mask when worn, goes into the wash and when it comes out gets retreated and put to dry ) yellow striped mask tomorrow, green striped mask  the day after tomorrow..and repeat.

*** if you are adding nose wires..the colour stripe can be used to contain the nose wire..

lastly..the kind of polypropylene that is used as filters in the N95 and as an additional filter in some of the FFP2 variants is everywhere and is really cheap , less than a dollar per yard..all you have to look for is "polypropylene non woven"..the "non woven" part is important as the spaces between the fibres are already smaller than in almost all woven type textiles.apart from some of the specialised types that cost a lot more, or are not suitable for washing or other types of sterilising.

So..back to mask making..another batch to finish and treat before tomorrow ..I'll read through for typos just the once ( my system says every word is a typo )

Added..I'd be more convinced by the "Dr Kwong" at diymask.site ( in the post above mine ) if he didn't think ( against all the scientific evidence to date ) that N95 masks worked against Covid 19..and if he didn't refer to facebook so that the facebook page that you land on shows you advertising and the page owner gets paid per person landing who looks at the ads..

We are ( and have been now for nearly a month ) making masks at no charge at all and donating them to mediacl staff and other health workers, without being paid for any of our materials our time..that is all we are currently doing, as are many others, pros ( waves to Brian "RockyAussie" and hobbyists, here on this site and elsewhere around the world..and the mask version in the pattern on Joanne L's site has been endorsed by many French hospitals and other hospitals and medical staff around the world..They do not claim to have invented something that was invented by someone else and has existed since 2013, nor do they send one to a facebook page where you'll be shown ads, tracked by facebook, and they and facebook will get paid per ad shown to each and every visitor.

Edited March 29, 2020 by mikesc

[mikesc]

Just took a break to add..

Don't fret the needle size too much..When you look at the actual diameter  of the hole made in any textile ( and textiles close up again around the hole unlike leather, which does close up again, but not nearly so much ) by that size of a fine needle, like a 12 or a 14 or a 16..it is huge compared to the size of the virus diameter ,each SARS-CoV-2 virion ( Covid 19 )  is approximately 50–200 nanometres in diameter..and the droplets containing them, expelled by someone infected when they sneeze or cough are > 5-10 μm in diameter...The viruses could set up a viral marching band  a 100 viruses and more across and still march "side by side" through the hole left by a size 12 or 14 needle..What is fairly important is to match the thread size with the needle size ( there is a "thread to needle" size chart that wiz links to ..and whose URL I cannot remember ATM ...? ) even a needle up to a size 120 would be fine..providing that the thread is matched to it so as to "fill" the holes left by it as much as possible..the surface tension of the droplet ( sneezed or coughed droplets do not have much surface tension..less than a drop of water ) when it encounters a porous barrier, such a textile, and the surface texture and physical and chemical properties of the textile ,is more important..Droplets ( and hence the viruses ) last / "live"* longer on smooth surfaces such as plastic and stainless steel ( although less on copper and silver** and some other metals ) ..they "live" for less time on paper and most textiles.

*"live"..There is "debate" about applying the term "live" to viruses..

** Do not drink silver solution, anyone recommending it is completely wrong, ( and probably scamming you ) it is dangerous ( can kill, certainly will not cure or prevent Covid 19, nor will it protect against it..But it will make you look like a smurf..and probably a dead smurf.

Oh..and the reason that hospitals prefer things made from cotton or polyester cotton blends is nothing to do with their efficacy against viral infections as such..it is that hospital laundries ( or their outside contractors ) are set up to wash at between 60°c and 90°c to prevent infection and or parasites lingering between washes..a lot of other fibre blends cannot support those temperatures ( some even melt ) so they prefer cotton or "polycotton" , so as to be able to use standard washing procedures , they are not set up to run "special temperature washes" for unknown blends of unknown man made fibres..If using the saturated salt barrier filter method ( as an inserted renewable polyester filter in a "pocket mask", washing at those temperatures is not required..But hospitals ( for the moment ) have more urgent things to do than to swap filters and to wash separately..Better that they treat ( with the saturated salt solution methods ) the disposable masks with the included filters that they have huge stocks of and which are in the pipeline.

Edited March 29, 2020 by mikesc

[mikesc]

I've just heard about the "Battelle sterilisation method"..which consists of using Hydrogen Peroxide vapour under pressure to sterilise used masks so that "they can be reused up to 20 times"..Hydrogen Peroxide does indeed sterilise, I use it in a solution ( hand wash and equipment wash#,  in the hand wash it is mixed in along with an 80% alcohol solution and a liquid soap surfactant and chlorhexidine and another combination of disinfectants*, available commercially and cheaply, proven to be 99.5% effective against bacteria and viruses including the corona virus family ) that I have made for my wife's "decontamination procedure" when she arrives home after her "rounds" of her patients..



It ..the Battelle sterilisation method ( Hydrogen Peroxide ) is a well known and very old method of sterilisation ( it is also what was used to "bleach" hair "blonde"..etc ) and is the active ingredient in "oxy action" washing powders and additives..But..it is very destructive to most fibres and threads if used in concentration..and can cause skin problems and lesions unless it is thoroughly rinsed off the items that it is applied to..Hospitals could use ( and already often do ) this simple, and extremely cheap chemical themselves..but they don't use it widely,mainly because of the destructive effects to items treated with it or in contact with it if it lingers. It will on brief contact "burn your skin" to a white colour by killing the skin cells..



It is not a "miracle method"..the reason that disposable masks cannot be reused many times after being treated with it are multi-fold..



Firstly 20 times is wildly optimistic..it is likely to destroy the mask "integrity" ( and hence any "protection"..and remember an N-95 doesn't actually block Covid 19 anyway ) with 5 or 6 re-uses..



Thus it gives a totally false sense of security..the mask is no more effective after treating with Hydrogen Peroxide than it was before being treated..



But it "saves money"..except it doesn't..because the process has to be paid for..



What it does do is provides a "stop gap" measure for the lack of masks..Don't need to worry about not having enough masks, if you can re-use the ones that you have, even if they can only be re-used in reality 5 or 6 times before they begin to break up..



Of course the real issue is that there is no point re-using a mask that is not effective at all against Covid 19 on it's first use ..and that is made no more effective when Hydrogen Peroxide is used to sterilise it..A non effective mask is sterile when it comes out of it's packet..re-sterilising it ( when it still lets through any Covid 19 virus that it is in contact with ) still makes it a "placebo" non effective mask..But it sounds "hi-tech"..and requires "a machine"..and someone will get rich supplying the machines..and so will others..meanwhile people will have been given false hope..and people will continue to die..when the mask treatment solution proven to be 100% effective against corona virus , and which requires no special machines, nothing more complex than saturated salt solution, either included in the filter layer during manufacture, or added to existing stocks of masks by spraying on their surface..is not used widely..



*Didecyldimethylammonium chloride at 1.8% and Benzalkonium chloride at 0.6%..base solution ..which is then further diluted by the addition of 3.5 litres of water at 20°C..( edited to add the further dilution step which I missed earlier )..Yes I know that both compounds have some "problems" and are not recommended in all disinfecting situations, but in these concentrations they are effective at 20°C ( room temp ) , are fast acting..and do work against Corona Viruses..and are easy to come by in concentrated form in almost any drugstore or supermarket in the washing products or detergent aisles..Brand names which contain them vary from country to country..so read the tiny print on the labels..Look them up individually on wikipedia for some of the brand names that contain one or both of them in your country..
Other compounds which work ( and may have better reputations re allergic reactions etc ) can be much harder to get hold of.

Chlorhexidine is the active ingredient in many prescription ( and "off prescription" ) mouthwashes ..usually sold / packaged as pre diluted ( ready to use ) as a solution of strength 0.12%..which is fine .



#The hand wash contains 80% alcohol***..



The textile and equipment wash contains no alcohol ..This allows for equipment including textiles textile masks etc, to be disinfected at 20°C by soaking for 15 minutes in the solution, or hand or machine washing at 20°C , or simple wiping down carefully in the case of cleaning and disinfecting of smooth non absorbent surfaces such as eye protective goggles or clear masks etc.



***If you make any of this..bear in mind that any wash ( or hand gel commonly called "hydrogel"..Purell ( spelling corrected ) is the name of the most widely known version in the USA ) that contains alcohol, is highly inflammable ) handle it and any alcohol carefully and away from flames and sources of ignition.



 



All kinds of things can cause skin irritation..test any of the above ( or any combination of the above ) by rubbing a small amount on the inside of your wrist..and waiting 30 minutes to see if you have any irritation..irritation may develop later..you use any formula or substance mentioned in this post or any other entirely at at your own risk..There are no guarantees..read the science articles linked to..make up your own mind..



Stay safe..stay home..keep your distance..wash your hands frequently..Act as if you and everyone else is contagious ..protect yourselves..protect others..and if you can..make masks..with a filter pocket..wash the masks and and saturated salt solution treat them daily .. saturated salt solution to treat the filters , dispose of used filters daily..


Destroying the virus requires breaking or disrupting it's outer membrane, this is done by bringing it into contact with various chemicals..including ( but not limited to ) the ones which I have mentioned above..and soap ( strong soap not mild ) , Alcohol at over 70% ( not % like in Whiskey ), bleach in dilute form ( Don't use it "neat", use it well diluted as if you were washing salad from the garden, how much you dilute it depends on what strength it was when you began ), Hydrogen Peroxide etc..and salt ( NaCl, in either crystals or strong solution ) contact with salt makes the virus "explode"..kind of like how salt on a slug works..uses the same principle..

Edited March 30, 2020 by mikesc
clarity and additional dilution information

[Bert51]

Wow, so much info me head is spinning.

Thank you, this is what we need to stay healthy during this outbreak.

Thanks,

Bert.

[mikesc]

Additional information currently being linked to by the BBC..

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-52087619

you may have to scroll to get to the item as the BBC page there is updated continuously..they are actually reporting about an item in the LA Times

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2020-03-29/coronavirus-choir-outbreak

Research

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973?query=RP

published on March 17 2021 shows proof that Covid 19 can be spread by "aerosol"..note that "aerosol"* in this instance is merely the technical word for "airborne" ( as in when someone sneezes or coughs that the droplets that they release can travel in the air, ( IMO further than the "social distancing" of 1metre recommended in France, or the 2 metres recommended in the UK and the USA ..I used to be able to cough and move a small piece of paper hanging on a thread at 3 to 4 metres distance from me , before my lungs got attacked by H5N1 a few years back, and subsequently pleurisy, I'd say a minimum of 5 metres should be observed for social distancing )  and "hang around"..

Which is why everyone should be wearing masks ( treated as in my post above ) so as not to catch covid 19, if someone sneezes or coughs in their vicinity, and / or so as not to spread covid 19, if they are infected ( even asymptomatically ) if they sneeze or cough..

search for ..

airspeed of a sneeze or a cough

sneeze around 100 miles per hour ( 160kms per hour ) .."droplet" count..over 100 thousand per sneeze..so sneezing fit  count ?

cough around 50 miles per hour ( 80kms per hour ).."droplet" count ..close to 3 thousand per cough..so coughing fit count ?

Read the airspeeds for each..and the number of "droplets" potentially each carrying large numbers of viruses that are expelled by a sneeze or a cough..

Sneezing or coughing into the crook of your elbow is not going keep all of that from flying through the air for further than 1 or 2 metres..

 

Wear masks, ( treated as per above ) make masks ( treated as per above )..donate masks..( treated as per above )..and show the receivers this page so that they know how to wash and retreat the washable ones.

*Aerosol does not mean it is definitely all a plot and that someone has been spraying it around from a can.

Edited March 30, 2020 by mikesc

[Sheilajeanne]

Thank you for this! I am a retired nurse, and many of my friends are still nursing. Here's what's currently happening in Ontario: https://www.yorkregion.com/opinion-story/9919234--i-didn-t-sign-up-to-die-on-my-job-fear-and-anger-among-ontario-nurses-battling-coronavirus-pandemic/?fbclid=iwar2hb-x4lxiowtyjzndmtqykyf1xqqa2zxdiwdfy_8ag2juphbdvv1jkfqs#.XoIyWzylfhN.facebook

I am still not sure if local hospitals are willing to accept masks made by the general public, but it can't hurt to try. As supplies of regular hospital approved masks dwindle, I am fairly certain they will be accepted. Before the days of disposable masks, masks were made of fabric, and sterilized for re-use. 

[toxo]

18 hours ago, Bert51 said:

Wow, so much info me head is spinning.

Thank you, this is what we need to stay healthy during this outbreak.

Thanks,

Bert.

+1 . Mike, what's the point of talking as if we're all bio chemists?

If there's a mask pattern that we can make that works, show me the pattern. If there's a bottle of something that I can soak the mask in, show me a bottle label to look for and where to find it. If I need to add this to that then show me two bottles with labels.

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, Sheilajeanne said:

Thank you for this! I am a retired nurse, and many of my friends are still nursing. Here's what's currently happening in Ontario: https://www.yorkregion.com/opinion-story/9919234--i-didn-t-sign-up-to-die-on-my-job-fear-and-anger-among-ontario-nurses-battling-coronavirus-pandemic/?fbclid=iwar2hb-x4lxiowtyjzndmtqykyf1xqqa2zxdiwdfy_8ag2juphbdvv1jkfqs#.XoIyWzylfhN.facebook

I am still not sure if local hospitals are willing to accept masks made by the general public, but it can't hurt to try. As supplies of regular hospital approved masks dwindle, I am fairly certain they will be accepted. Before the days of disposable masks, masks were made of fabric, and sterilized for re-use. 

They can still be of use to the populace leaving the others for the medics.

45 minutes ago, toxo said:

+1 . Mike, what's the point of talking as if we're all bio chemists?

If there's a mask pattern that we can make that works, show me the pattern. If there's a bottle of something that I can soak the mask in, show me a bottle label to look for and where to find it. If I need to add this to that then show me two bottles with labels.

I agree I will at least make some and offer them to those who would want them with instructions for cleaning in laymans terms.

[Bert51]

Maybe mikesc thought he would be criticized for not being specific enough, by some?

Bert.

[mikesc]

 

43 minutes ago, toxo said:

18 hours ago, Bert51 said:

Wow, so much info me head is spinning.

Thank you, this is what we need to stay healthy during this outbreak.

Thanks,

Bert.

+1 . Mike, what's the point of talking as if we're all bio chemists?

If there's a mask pattern that we can make that works, show me the pattern. If there's a bottle of something that I can soak the mask in, show me a bottle label to look for and where to find it. If I need to add this to that then show me two bottles with labels.

toxo..

It ( the pattern ) was linked to in my first post in this thread..a tiny effort on your part and you'd have found it.

If you were all bio chemists what I have posted, would have been posted, in far more complex language / terminology..I have simplified it ( the overall subject ) as much as I can into "layman's terms" and, as a result, of that , and the fact that I'm posting whilst making masks, dealing with the fact that my wife who is in daily contact with covid 19 patients knowing that she might die due to this contact, and is coming home knowing that she might infect us and that I or our son might die from that infection..Means that I'm aware of many errors introduced into my posts due to this stress and lack of time ( such as describing N-95 type, the type known here as FFP2 masks, in terms used for surgical masks, the folded paper type* )..But the words were short enough, simple enough, unless you wanted all the thinking to be done for you..apparently you did...or you thought that I should magically determine each readers level of vocabulary and write to each person personally...especially you..

( my Mum, no longer alive..would have said to you.."Oi..what did your last slave die of sunshine ?" )

I'm also aware that because I've been reading about this in at least 3 languages , even before the Covid 19 crisis hit in China..and I am living in a country , France where all descriptions are written "reversed" in comparison with English, and all chemical names and formula are also likewise "reversed ", and all descriptions of equipment and masks and medical procedures bears no relation at all to the same descriptions in English ..and as I already said in a previous post ..brand names ( the names on the bottles in your country, which I left 30 years ago) , that you want me to research for you , to save you looking at the backs of the bottles for the chemicals they have in them..are not the same brands, not the same bottles, how the hell would I know what the bottles that you have available are called..I can't..I don't..

So you'll have to do that bit for yourself.

Also I'm aware ( acutely aware in fact ) that I may be, or may have been ( due to tiredness and stress etc ), making translation errors, procedural errors or even factual errors..and so I keep coming back to my posts and editing and re-editing them when I think I have not been clear enough or simple enough or correcting such mistakes as I become aware of..I'm trying as hard as I can via all the channels that I can to alert our health authorities here to the fact that the masks that they have and that they have distributed and have ordered and are manufacturing and are distributing to my wife and her colleagues are leaving them ( and their families ) all vulnerable to infection..I'm doing this knowing that If I get it..I'm ( due to pre existing medical conditions which I have mentioned, ) à due for a pine box..with all the disruption and emotional trauma that would bring to my family..plus I'd like to keep living a bit longer.

And you are whining that it isn't in simple enough words for you..

Others have contacted me privately to say thanks for making the effort and taking the time to post..and to make masks..I didn't post to get praise, they know this ..But I thank them all the same..They know who they are..Thanks too Bert and Arven and sheilajeanne..Please forgive the errors..I was doing my best, in very difficult circumstances..You toxo are the first to bitch ( publicly or privately ) that it is too complex for you..and that I should make it all in simpler language...this despite the fact that I personally helped you with a design of your dog and advice about your laser, both of which took my time..and time is all any of us have ( not the first time that I've posted that "truism" here )..

 

I've never posted here to show off my work..My very first post was to ask for help..and Eric so very kindly helped me privately with a link to the engineers manual for my Juki..I have enjoyed reading so many posts by so many people here..I have always tried to help when I could , as you personally know.

But..you think that my help is too complicated..even when I'm posting trying to help save lives, yours and others..

Well sunshine..You have shown me the error of my ways..

Time is all I have..it is all any of us have..and you have shown me that I have been wasting it posting publicly..

I may not have as much time left as I thought..certainly not to waste it on you..again..

So..this will be the last post from me here on this site on this or any other subject.

The rest of you..stay safe : ) ..make masks..treat them..

[Ferg]

mikesc

Please don't leave the site because of one idiot

This happens too many times I am sure

 

Keep a stiff upper lip. I happen to enjoy your posts, even when they point towards me. lol

 

Ferg

[motocouture]

@mikesc thank you again for the detailed posts, during what is an immensely challenging time. Humbled by the fact that you’re suspending your day-to-day business operations to support others. Old saying from a college I survived - doctrina vim promovet...

@toxo It’s a free world; if someone’s extensive and well-researched efforts don’t meet your needs, no one is forcing you to read or use it. 

[toxo]

On most forums we're kinda treading on eggshells because you can't please all the people all the time but this is ridiculous. But mikesc you know how much I admire and respect your work ethic, your knowledge and your altruism and after reading some of this, that extends to your wife also, in fact more so and I hope with all my heart she doesn't come to regret what she's doing. That's perhaps the wrong way to say it because I suspect that even if she catches the damn thing she won't regret doing it.

The fact still remains that if you want to reach the masses you have to talk in a way that the masses can understand. Tesco don't sell a cleaning agent by listing the ingredients.

If I've touched a nerve I'm sorry. You know it wasn't meant to offend, that's just not me. I just hope you were tired when you responded but you're far too valuable to this site to leave and if me being here is going to offend you then I'll leave.

Edited March 31, 2020 by toxo

[chuck123wapati]

3 hours ago, toxo said:

On most forums we're kinda treading on eggshells because you can't please all the people all the time but this is ridiculous. But mikesc you know how much I admire and respect your work ethic, your knowledge and your altruism and after reading some of this, that extends to your wife also, in fact more so and I hope with all my heart she doesn't come to regret what she's doing. That's perhaps the wrong way to say it because I suspect that even if she catches the damn thing she won't regret doing it.

The fact still remains that if you want to reach the masses you have to talk in a way that the masses can understand. Tesco don't sell a cleaning agent by listing the ingredients.

If I've touched a nerve I'm sorry. You know it wasn't meant to offend, that's just not me. I just hope you were tired when you responded but you're far too valuable to this site to leave and if me being here is going to offend you then I'll leave.

 

11 hours ago, mikesc said:

 

toxo..

It ( the pattern ) was linked to in my first post in this thread..a tiny effort on your part and you'd have found it.

If you were all bio chemists what I have posted, would have been posted, in far more complex language / terminology..I have simplified it ( the overall subject ) as much as I can into "layman's terms" and, as a result, of that , and the fact that I'm posting whilst making masks, dealing with the fact that my wife who is in daily contact with covid 19 patients knowing that she might die due to this contact, and is coming home knowing that she might infect us and that I or our son might die from that infection..Means that I'm aware of many errors introduced into my posts due to this stress and lack of time ( such as describing N-95 type, the type known here as FFP2 masks, in terms used for surgical masks, the folded paper type* )..But the words were short enough, simple enough, unless you wanted all the thinking to be done for you..apparently you did...or you thought that I should magically determine each readers level of vocabulary and write to each person personally...especially you..

( my Mum, no longer alive..would have said to you.."Oi..what did your last slave die of sunshine ?" )

I'm also aware that because I've been reading about this in at least 3 languages , even before the Covid 19 crisis hit in China..and I am living in a country , France where all descriptions are written "reversed" in comparison with English, and all chemical names and formula are also likewise "reversed ", and all descriptions of equipment and masks and medical procedures bears no relation at all to the same descriptions in English ..and as I already said in a previous post ..brand names ( the names on the bottles in your country, which I left 30 years ago) , that you want me to research for you , to save you looking at the backs of the bottles for the chemicals they have in them..are not the same brands, not the same bottles, how the hell would I know what the bottles that you have available are called..I can't..I don't..

So you'll have to do that bit for yourself.

Also I'm aware ( acutely aware in fact ) that I may be, or may have been ( due to tiredness and stress etc ), making translation errors, procedural errors or even factual errors..and so I keep coming back to my posts and editing and re-editing them when I think I have not been clear enough or simple enough or correcting such mistakes as I become aware of..I'm trying as hard as I can via all the channels that I can to alert our health authorities here to the fact that the masks that they have and that they have distributed and have ordered and are manufacturing and are distributing to my wife and her colleagues are leaving them ( and their families ) all vulnerable to infection..I'm doing this knowing that If I get it..I'm ( due to pre existing medical conditions which I have mentioned, ) à due for a pine box..with all the disruption and emotional trauma that would bring to my family..plus I'd like to keep living a bit longer.

And you are whining that it isn't in simple enough words for you..

Others have contacted me privately to say thanks for making the effort and taking the time to post..and to make masks..I didn't post to get praise, they know this ..But I thank them all the same..They know who they are..Thanks too Bert and Arven and sheilajeanne..Please forgive the errors..I was doing my best, in very difficult circumstances..You toxo are the first to bitch ( publicly or privately ) that it is too complex for you..and that I should make it all in simpler language...this despite the fact that I personally helped you with a design of your dog and advice about your laser, both of which took my time..and time is all any of us have ( not the first time that I've posted that "truism" here )..

 

I've never posted here to show off my work..My very first post was to ask for help..and Eric so very kindly helped me privately with a link to the engineers manual for my Juki..I have enjoyed reading so many posts by so many people here..I have always tried to help when I could , as you personally know.

But..you think that my help is too complicated..even when I'm posting trying to help save lives, yours and others..

Well sunshine..You have shown me the error of my ways..

Time is all I have..it is all any of us have..and you have shown me that I have been wasting it posting publicly..

I may not have as much time left as I thought..certainly not to waste it on you..again..

So..this will be the last post from me here on this site on this or any other subject.

The rest of you..stay safe : ) ..make masks..treat them..

I wasn't meaning an ill intentions either, we are all under a lot of stress now as none of us know what really is happening. Here the population has been told by the cdc and local first responders not to buy masks , they don't help, all the while we hear they are needed for the medical field. I see some countries saying they are told the virus is air borne while we are told its not. Fact here is, although we aren't told this in so many words, if you get sick enough you will get a test , if positive you and anyone in your house will be quarantined in home until you either recover of get worse, once you have full blown symptoms then maybe taken to the hospital if they have a ventilator and at that point you wont see your family again unless you live through it. I just wish the media and our governments would be more honest. I wish you and your family all the best and pray we all make it through this. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by chuck123wapati

[Bert51]

I love mikesc post, even though I had to re-read a couple sections to get my thick head around them, but I now understand more about this Virus then I did before. So to me this post was the best I have read since it all started.

If you are like me and some of the words I did not understand I used Google, but as I said before I am now more informed then I was and to that I say Thank You mikesc.

Bert.

[BattleAx]

Thank You