Stitching Holes... with a drill??

[MtlBiker]

YouTube is full of helpful videos and I admit that most of (the little) I've learned about leather working and sewing in general has come from those videos.  Plus of course the outstanding help and advice of members here.  But often there are completely opposite views and for a novice it's hard to figure out the best approach.

For example, one of my next projects is to make a sheath for an axe.  No big deal, right?  This was going to be mostly for practice with hand stitching which I'm just getting into.  Anyway, I'm going to have three layers of leather... front and back pieces plus a gusset, and I'll be using either 6oz veg tan or 8oz (I have pieces of both).  So it's going to be pretty darn thick!  Either 18oz total, or 24.

I just watched a video which showed a way of making the stitching holes that I hadn't seen before... they used a drill press with a 1/16" drill!  Round holes of course, but all neatly lined up.  That was of course after marking where the holes should be.

All I've done so far is to use stitching chisels to punch through all layers if I was able to, or just part way to then finish the holes with an awl.

Would any of you even consider using a drill (press) to make the stitching holes?

(The only time I ever did something this thick before, I used my Techsew 2750 and it came out very well, but I am trying to improve/learn my hand stitching.)

 

[Hardrada]

38 minutes ago, MtlBiker said:

Would any of you even consider using a drill (press) to make the stitching holes?

Not in this lifetime.

I cringe when I see such things.

[Hags]

To the contrary, yes, I have. And it came out fine. I actually used a finish nail (think it was a 4 penny) that I put in the drill press and used a file to smooth out the head and put a fine point on it. That way it parts the leather more than drilling It. In hindsight, I'm not sure I needed the drill part of it as much as the press part. 3 to 4 layers of 7/8 is is doable I suppose, but not with my arthritis.  Just be sure to have something backing the piece.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Hags

[tsunkasapa]

2 hours ago, Hardrada said:

Not in this lifetime.

I cringe when I see such things.

[Danne]

6 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

(The only time I ever did something this thick before, I used my Techsew 2750 and it came out very well, but I am trying to improve/learn my hand stitching.)

 

I have no experience doing the products you do. But just a thought, can't you make your stitching holes with your sewing machine without thread so you can hand stitch it? 

[Spyros]

I'd use whatever works, a drill press, a sewing machine without thread, an oil derrick, whatever LOL

The traditional and recommended approach is to mark the holes and make them with an awl, but you might find it hard to keep the awl angle consistent the first couple of thousand times.

[Handstitched]

24 minutes ago, Spyros said:

a sewing machine without thread

While I have never used a drill,  I have used my machine without thread on occasion on the really thick stuff, like 8 -10 mm . And there are times when  my hands get quite sore especially in my knuckles ,a bit of ' Arthur Ritis' setting in  I guess,   making it difficult for me  to use an awl , the  joints in my hands  also seize up on occasion .  Very noticeable when using a rotary hole punch.  

HS

[chuck123wapati]

12 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

YouTube is full of helpful videos and I admit that most of (the little) I've learned about leather working and sewing in general has come from those videos.  Plus of course the outstanding help and advice of members here.  But often there are completely opposite views and for a novice it's hard to figure out the best approach.

For example, one of my next projects is to make a sheath for an axe.  No big deal, right?  This was going to be mostly for practice with hand stitching which I'm just getting into.  Anyway, I'm going to have three layers of leather... front and back pieces plus a gusset, and I'll be using either 6oz veg tan or 8oz (I have pieces of both).  So it's going to be pretty darn thick!  Either 18oz total, or 24.

I just watched a video which showed a way of making the stitching holes that I hadn't seen before... they used a drill press with a 1/16" drill!  Round holes of course, but all neatly lined up.  That was of course after marking where the holes should be.

All I've done so far is to use stitching chisels to punch through all layers if I was able to, or just part way to then finish the holes with an awl.

Would any of you even consider using a drill (press) to make the stitching holes?

(The only time I ever did something this thick before, I used my Techsew 2750 and it came out very well, but I am trying to improve/learn my hand stitching.)

 

you can make a hole any way you want. The question, will the hole you make fit your design, look good or be unnoticed.  Personally i think it would be to time consuming, ive made a few cribbage boards lol plus i dont like the look. I sew three layers of 10 most of the time if your awl is truly sharp it will go thru like butter if it doesn't its not sharp yet.

[kgg]

11 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

Would any of you even consider using a drill (press) to make the stitching holes?

I would definitely use my drill press not as a drill but just as a press. I would simply install a hole chisel in the head. For me it would be easier on the arms and with a simple alignment fence on the bed of the drill press the holes would always be aligned with the outside edge of the leather. Since you can set the downward travel of the head and the height of the bed you would get consistent chisel penetration. The only thing is going around corners you may have to change to a single or double tooth chisel.

You could also use a press similar to the:

i) Amazon at $169 CA which I don't think would give constant alignment of your holes as the head can swivel around the support arm and it would be only a single purpose machine.

( www.amazon.ca/dp/B07TBKGFBW/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?pd_rd_i=B07TBKGFBW&pd_rd_w=ov56M&pf_rd_p=8e308614-8b7b-45e9-9526-75d8e163854c&pd_rd_wg=vxfZ1&pf_rd_r=RZBGPHJ7K41F0NFTQT3C&pd_rd_r=a1ccbbd1-5dbd-4acb-9e8c-e50e934d47a5&s=kitchen&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExVEhZNzlUWElUMUlOJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDUyMTMzM0tKWDNVNVBOTDdXNyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzgyNDM2M05IOUlCMEtINVoxUSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1 )

ii) Tandy's Craftool pro hand press ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKWkyJg510g  )

My attitude would be use whatever works best, gives constant results with equipment that hopefully has more then just one function.

kgg

[billybopp]

Drilling holes will certainly work, but keep in mind when you do that you are actually removing leather at the holes.  They will not close up around the thread the way that they would if using an awl.  I wouldn't go that route.  However, I wouldn't hesitate to use an awl in the drill chuck with it secured so that it does not turn.  That has the advantage of being easier on hands and makes it easier to keep your awl aligned straight, and since you aren't removing material the holes will "heal" better.

- Bill

[Tugadude]

Holy cow!  (pun intended)  All this talk about holes.  I don't know that it's been mentioned, but some makers pre-punch holes and some use lasers to make holes.  And I'm sure many use drills.  

There is no doubt the best way is a small hole that will close up and that is best accomplished with an awl or a very thin stitching iron.  But I've seen nice work where the holes were drilled or burned.

To me, the important thing to bear in mind is the fact many of us aren't doing saddles and/or tack.  We build wallets and bags and key fobs and notebook covers and such and they don't have to withstand the rigors of use that saddles and tack get.

So you can "get away with" most anything when it comes to making holes if the only stress is putting something in your pocket and maybe opening it now and then.  

[Tequila]

I tried the “drill method” on a knife sheath, I used a 1/16 inch bit in a drill press.  I started by using stitching irons to mark the holes then drilled at the marks.  Like others said you’re removing leather, what I found that using the regular hand stitching thread I had didn’t fill the holes.   

[chuck123wapati]

31 minutes ago, kgg said:

I would definitely use my drill press not as a drill but just as a press. I would simply install a hole chisel in the head. For me it would be easier on the arms and with a simple alignment fence on the bed of the drill press the holes would always be aligned with the outside edge of the leather. Since you can set the downward travel of the head and the height of the bed you would get consistent chisel penetration. The only thing is going around corners you may have to change to a single or double tooth chisel.

You could also use a press similar to the:

i) Amazon at $169 CA which I don't think would give constant alignment of your holes as the head can swivel around the support arm and it would be only a single purpose machine.

( www.amazon.ca/dp/B07TBKGFBW/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?pd_rd_i=B07TBKGFBW&pd_rd_w=ov56M&pf_rd_p=8e308614-8b7b-45e9-9526-75d8e163854c&pd_rd_wg=vxfZ1&pf_rd_r=RZBGPHJ7K41F0NFTQT3C&pd_rd_r=a1ccbbd1-5dbd-4acb-9e8c-e50e934d47a5&s=kitchen&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExVEhZNzlUWElUMUlOJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNDUyMTMzM0tKWDNVNVBOTDdXNyZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzgyNDM2M05IOUlCMEtINVoxUSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2RldGFpbCZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU&th=1 )

ii) Tandy's Craftool pro hand press ( www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKWkyJg510g  )

My attitude would be use whatever works best, gives constant results with equipment that hopefully has more then just one function.

kgg

good idea! a guy could use it to set rivets, hole punches for belts and maybe a makers mark or some such stamp also.

[kgg]

47 minutes ago, chuck123wapati said:

good idea! a guy could use it to set rivets, hole punches for belts and maybe a makers mark or some such stamp also.

I like my tools to be multi functional, it's cheaper on the pocket book and takes up less space which leaves more room for other things.

kgg

[suzelle]

11 minutes ago, kgg said:

I like my tools to be multi functional, it's cheaper on the pocket book and takes up less space which leaves more room for other things.

kgg

Multi-functional - Yes! I try to do the most with what I got. LOL. Let's not call that cheap kgg. That's just smart.

[MtlBiker]

@Hags and @tsunkasapa - The tutorial video where I saw this is by Weaver Leather.  Supposedly folks with lots of experience.  I'd never seen that done before and I was surprised.  But with such a thick assembly it might be worth considering I thought.  I'm still learning hand stitching and while my awl sharpening is getting better, I'm concerned that I might not be able to make proper holes using my awl.  And for something like an axe sheath, the aesthetic of nice (what do you call it?) slanted stitches might not really be required.

6 hours ago, Danne said:

I have no experience doing the products you do. But just a thought, can't you make your stitching holes with your sewing machine without thread so you can hand stitch it? 

Probably I could, as I could also complete the stitching by machine.  But I'm trying to learn technique here.  And I think that using a drill press, slowly and carefully, after the hole positions have been marked, might be easier to control than if I did this by machine.  But I'm a novice, just looking for best ways.

5 hours ago, Spyros said:

I'd use whatever works, a drill press, a sewing machine without thread, an oil derrick, whatever LOL

Unfortunately, I don't have access to an oil derrick.    When I tried using an awl on my last practice project with 3 layers of 6oz veg tan, I found it impossible to punch through all layers properly in position and straight.  Also my glued gusset was twisted out of position by my pushing with the awl.  My awl probably wasn't adequately sharpened at that point and maybe now with a much sharper awl it wouldn't be so tough.  Maybe I should give it a try, especially since it's a practice project.  But still, I wouldn't want to mess it up.

@Handstitched The problem I see with both using a drill press or the sewing machine without thread to punch the holes is that the holes are round instead of diamond shaped.  So, while both those methods would work probably the most attractive result would be with proper diamond shaped holes.  Also considering using a drill press vs the machine to make the holes, it might be very difficult for me (at this stage in my learning) to keep the machine stitching holes exactly where needed, very close to the edge of the assembly.  I'd say that would be particularly tough if the item was also wet molded (but this project isn't).  A drill press with pre-marked hole positions probably would be better.

@chuck123wapati - My awl is MUCH sharper now than earlier.  I've been practicing and practicing with the sharpening.  I guess I'll just have to give it a try, because I do agree that proper diamond shaped stitching holes make it look much better.  Although the axe sheath that Weaver Leather made using the drill press looked really good.

1 hour ago, billybopp said:

Drilling holes will certainly work, but keep in mind when you do that you are actually removing leather at the holes.  They will not close up around the thread the way that they would if using an awl.  I wouldn't go that route.  However, I wouldn't hesitate to use an awl in the drill chuck with it secured so that it does not turn.  That has the advantage of being easier on hands and makes it easier to keep your awl aligned straight, and since you aren't removing material the holes will "heal" better.

I think that's a terrific idea!  I just need to figure out a way to hold the awl securely in the chuck.  I do agree that round holes are not ideal.

@kgg - That's a great idea!  Plus if my awl is not quite as sharp as it should be (I'm still learning how to sharpen it properly) the drill press would give me better leverage to push through multiple layers and keep the hole properly perpendicular.  I just have to find some way to hold the awl in the chuck and then of course make sure it stays in the correct orientation so that the diamond shaped holes are all (awl) proper.

 

[battlemunky]

I started off using my Dremel drill press and drilling holes but found that my Dremel vibrated a bit much and the holes were always a bit sloppier than I liked not to mention you may need jigs or other leveling methods to keep your holes the same distance from the edge in the event the piece isn't flat. I just got used to using punches and awls. As others have mentioned, a light saber of an awl will get you through most everything and skill with it will land you close to the same place you went into on the other side.

[fredk]

For keeping the holes on your work piece equidistant from the edge whilst cutting or drilling or punching the holes you can use a magnetic thingy, like this one :

I use one (a large one, top picture) on my sewing machines. It sticks to the metal bed and you just run one edge of your work piece along it so that your stitching, or holes in this case, are equidistant from the edge. These magnet thingies come in different shapes and sizes and cost just a few $$ (try the sewing section of Hobby Lobby, or on ebay or Amazon)

PS. I'm working on an idea for a holder for my Tandy Press to hold regular type diamond awl blades

[Spyros]

1 hour ago, MtlBiker said:

@Handstitched The problem I see with both using a drill press or the sewing machine without thread to punch the holes is that the holes are round instead of diamond shaped.  So, while both those methods would work probably the most attractive result would be with proper diamond shaped holes.  

Only thing that matters is if it's more attractive to you.  It is to me, but don't assume that everybody likes it or it is the proper or better way, there's a tonne of people out there who prefer completely straight stitches and view the slanted ones coming out of diamond/french/slanted chisels as wrong, someone on this board even said "girly".  It's just a preference, it's entirely up to you.

If you have a drill press another option is to stick your diamond chisels in there and just pull down without turning the press on. Fred's solution with a magnet would help keep the holes in a straight line, although most drill presses already have some sort of a built-in guide that you could use.

Edited March 11, 2022 by Spyros

[OldCanuck]

Novice here. Still learning the stitching art myself. But if Weaver Leather posts a "how to" video, I'd be willing to follow them on the trail.

I mean, I've seen projects that tell you to punch the stitching holes with a #0 or #00 punch. That's a round hole, and it's leather removed. Those projects also use pretty hefty thread/string.

About drills: there's a whole science to drill bits, drill speeds, and so on, and I know nothing about it, but if you were to go to the right forum and ask "what kind of drill bit to use on leather", I'll bet you'd get some useful replies.

Finally: please keep us updated on your progress. It lets us learn from your, um, experience.

 

[fredk]

I just discovered that Tandy does a stitching chisels adapter for use in their press;

https://www.tandyleather.world/products/press-die-for-hand-press-diamond-chisel

for use with their set of inter-changeable chisels

https://www.tandyleather.world/products/diamond-hole-chisel-set

When I'm rich again I might buy the adapter and chisels sets. I have the press already

Edited March 11, 2022 by fredk

[toxo]

18 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

YouTube is full of helpful videos and I admit that most of (the little) I've learned about leather working and sewing in general has come from those videos.  Plus of course the outstanding help and advice of members here.  But often there are completely opposite views and for a novice it's hard to figure out the best approach.

For example, one of my next projects is to make a sheath for an axe.  No big deal, right?  This was going to be mostly for practice with hand stitching which I'm just getting into.  Anyway, I'm going to have three layers of leather... front and back pieces plus a gusset, and I'll be using either 6oz veg tan or 8oz (I have pieces of both).  So it's going to be pretty darn thick!  Either 18oz total, or 24.

I just watched a video which showed a way of making the stitching holes that I hadn't seen before... they used a drill press with a 1/16" drill!  Round holes of course, but all neatly lined up.  That was of course after marking where the holes should be.

All I've done so far is to use stitching chisels to punch through all layers if I was able to, or just part way to then finish the holes with an awl.

Would any of you even consider using a drill (press) to make the stitching holes?

(The only time I ever did something this thick before, I used my Techsew 2750 and it came out very well, but I am trying to improve/learn my hand stitching.)

 

Assuming you mean a welt rather than a gusset to give three layers. You could of course have a bit of faith in yourself and punch all three layers separately . All you need is a stitch line and a starting point for your chisels. Just be sure to do exactly the same for all three layers. If you have the slightest doubt in yourself then glue em all together before stitching.

[MtlBiker]

54 minutes ago, toxo said:

Assuming you mean a welt rather than a gusset to give three layers. You could of course have a bit of faith in yourself and punch all three layers separately . All you need is a stitch line and a starting point for your chisels. Just be sure to do exactly the same for all three layers. If you have the slightest doubt in yourself then glue em all together before stitching.

Thanks for catching my novice error and understanding that I'd really meant "welt".  But I'm nowhere near competent enough at this stage to punch through three layers perfectly aligned.  Which is why I liked the idea of using a drill as per the Weaver Leather video.  And if I do glue all layers together first as I'd planned, I'm back to the problem of being able to punch my chisel through them all, in perfect alignment.  I'll get there... but it'll take a lot more practice and experience first.  I'm really liking the idea of pre-marking where each hole should be and then using an awl held in a drill press to keep the holes perfectly perpendicular.  I'm going to bring an awl in to work with me tomorrow (yes, I work on Saturdays) to see how/if I can fit it into our drill press chuck.

[chuck123wapati]

1 hour ago, toxo said:

Assuming you mean a welt rather than a gusset to give three layers. You could of course have a bit of faith in yourself and punch all three layers separately . All you need is a stitch line and a starting point for your chisels. Just be sure to do exactly the same for all three layers. If you have the slightest doubt in yourself then glue em all together before stitching.

i used to do it this way and it works great too, I used small brass 1" brads to line up the holes before gluing about every inch or so along the stitch line.

Edited March 11, 2022 by chuck123wapati

[toxo]

2 hours ago, MtlBiker said:

Thanks for catching my novice error and understanding that I'd really meant "welt".  But I'm nowhere near competent enough at this stage to punch through three layers perfectly aligned.  Which is why I liked the idea of using a drill as per the Weaver Leather video.  And if I do glue all layers together first as I'd planned, I'm back to the problem of being able to punch my chisel through them all, in perfect alignment.  I'll get there... but it'll take a lot more practice and experience first.  I'm really liking the idea of pre-marking where each hole should be and then using an awl held in a drill press to keep the holes perfectly perpendicular.  I'm going to bring an awl in to work with me tomorrow (yes, I work on Saturdays) to see how/if I can fit it into our drill press chuck.

Chuck knew what I meant. not all three layers together. One layer at a time. It's amazing how accurate you can be when you tell yourself it has to be spot on. As Chuck says line em up when glueing with nails/toothpicks, whatever, cotton buds cut in half are a nice tight fit for round holes.