Wizcrafts

There are some really well built leather sewing machines that are out of production that can be found used for $2,500 or less. One that comes to mind is the older Number 9 Machine and its younger brother, the Luberto Classic. These machines have square feed of the needle bar instead of the common pendulum feed that shortens with height. They have a single jumping foot, needle feed, no feed dog and narrow slotted throat plates. It's a shame that Tony Luberto couldn't sell more of these machines that were so well built and stay in the game. As for used leather sewing machines that typically sell for $2500 and less, I recommend the Union Lockstitch or slightly more expensive Campbell Randall Lockstitch needle and awl machines. They do have a learning curve but are worth the effort when you see how beautifully they stitch thick and thin stacks of leather. A skilled operator can set them up to sew from as thin as 6 ounces by using the smallest needle and awl combination and thin 3 cord thread. I was able to sew 8 ounce belts, guitar straps and rifle slings with #138 thread on the two ULS machines I've owned. They are built like Sherman tanks and many are still in service after one hundred years!

This is fascinating from a theoretical viewpoint, but begs the question: why are you trying to force domestic sewing machines meant to thin cloth to sew 6mm of leather? It makes no sense unless you simply cannot find an affordable industrial sewing machine that allows full calibration of the feed components. This topic reminds me about some past discussions of portable walking foot machines that were built to sew sail cloth and boat upholstery. Owners were trying all kinds of hacks to get them to sew over 1/4 inch (6mm) of leather with #138 or larger thread and had very mixed (mostly bad) results. Those machines were not built with that work in mind. The same goes for the Singer 66 and 201. Singer's engineers designed them for household repairs to cloth garments, some of which were stretchy, and they are good at doing that. They made better, stronger and more adjustable commercial machines for heavy duty sewing into thick materials and leather.

Let us know how it works out moneywise. Do read the article, linked to in the previous reply, by one of our members after he went through the tedious process of importing a 441 clone from China. You'll need to have all manner of documents ready and be prepared to do money wire transfers from your bank to a brokerage agent. Even if all goes smoothly, you become the dealer as regards repairs and warranties. It is doubtful you'll get technical support from China, unless you speak Chinese. Good luck with that. I like how folks who may have never imported machinery from China claim to know how much our US based dealers pay per landed and warehoused machine, or what the time to set them up is worth. Oh, and dealers have really big commercial buildings, trucks and huge overhead to cover from sales. Best of all, they offer after the sale support and can get parts one might need shipped out in days instead of weeks. Most will talk you through a repair on the phone, in English, not Chingrish. Just sayin...

The Adler 30-1 is similar to the Singer 29k73 in that it has a long arm and very small bobbin. It uses Singer 29k small shuttles, bobbins and needles (29x3, 29x4, 135x16, 135x17). The maximum thickness is about 5/16 inch, but the stitches will be very short at that thickness. It does best sewing into 6 to 8 ounces of leather, with #69 bonded nylon thread, or perhaps #92, using a #18 or #19 needle. At this thickness it might get 5 stitches per inch, unless the feed motion bell crank is worn down too far. If you use #138 thread (with a #23 needle), you'll only be able to about two average length belts. There is no using #207 thread in this model, unless it is a very short project, no more than about 1/4 inch thick. However, that heavy weight thread will probably get caught in the shuttle. Because the stitches get closer at this height (pendulum effect), you'll have to push or pull the work to get even 6 stitches to the inch. The foot has sharp teeth needed to pull the leather on top and they leave deep marks. The Adler 30 series are patching machine. I use my 30-7 to sew embroidered patches over pockets in vests and sleeves on jackets, to repair purses, to sew small cylindrical objects, or to sew up the arm on long narrow bags. It is great for installing zippers in the sides of boots, or repairing shoe uppers with torn thread. It is NOT for holsters!

N.B.; The recent retaliatory tariffs on Chinese goods and sewing machines do not apply in Canada unless Canadians import machines from the USA. They can still buy from Techsew in Montreal at the same prices they have been paying.

Yes there is a way to make the 441 machine sew thin material with thin thread. I wrote a blog article all about it. I call it dumbing down a Cowboy CB4500, Cobra Class 4, or similar harness stitcher. Give it a read and decide if it is something you want to go through when you change from thin to thick jobs. If you have 20 or 30 minutes to spare before sewing, it's worth the effort. It lets you sew with #69 and #92 thread into wallets, phone cases, book covers, jeans, chaps, vests, etc. In order to get the best results in thin material you should buy the optional flat slotted throat plate and a table attachment (unless they come with the used machine you mentioned). Eventually, when you get busier sewing, you'll want dedicated machines for the different thicknesses and thread sizes. One thing I've found is that the longer the needle, the easier it is to deflect it into the feed dog surface instead of the hole. This can occasionally happen to large size needles, but happens quite often with thin needles. Big 441 type machines use System 7x3 round point and 794 leather point needles. You need to know that there aren't any regular sources for System 794 leather point needles in sizes under #23 (metric 160) in the North American market (although they may possibly be available somewhere from some seller or importer). That leaves one using regular round points for #18 through #22 needles. Not a biggie but worth mentioning. BTW: My article about dumbing down a harness stitcher could be reversed to smartening it up if you normally keep it dumbed down for thin work with thin needles. ;-)

All remaining Ferdinand parts and machines were purchased by Hoffman Brothers in Des Plains, Il. Call them at: (800) 323-9120 .

Cowboy and Cobra brands are made in China and have been severely impacted by multiple import tariffs since September of 2018. The dealers have to pay these new fees every time they clear machines from Customs. These tariffs have been compounding since 2018. Once applied they are non-refundable. All this aside, the price for American made Campbell-Randall and Union Lockstitch needle and awl machines has remained fairly stable. Some of the Japanese built Juki machines have gone up in price because of new models with feature additions and operational improvements. A Juki TSC-441 can be had for as little as $5,750.00 at Nick-O-Sew. The new Adler leather sewing machines have actually come down since their introduction a couple years ago. The top-of-the-line Adler 969 ECO has dropped from 11k to 9k through Weaver Leather.

Based upon your requirements, at a minimum I recommend the Cowboy CB3200. It sews a solid half inch of veg-tan with up to #346 bonded thread. Note: if you know in advance that you will be sewing right next to dropped areas, like belt loops on the bottom, or preshaped holsters up and down, the 9" arm CB3500 or the 16.5" arm CB4500 with an optional raised holster plate is a better choice. This is based on experience. I could not sew holsters the way I build most of them with only the standard flat throat plate. Shapes on the bottom get in the way of that plate. If you sew flat first and shape later, this won't be as much of an issue. Then, of course, if you dye after sewing, the thread will be dyed too.

How thick will your holsters be and what size thread do you want to use?

There is yet another bobbin size in current production. It is the Adler XXL bobbin that is used in certain new models of Adler leather stitchers. By my reckoning it is even larger than the Juki U style bobbin. See this PDF for more details.

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You will at least have free technical support from the dealer who sells you a new sewing machine (but try to not muck it up with self diagnosed failed repairs). I've bought countless machines and had to learn to fix them myself by trial and error (emphasis on error). I've only actually owned one brand new machine: a Cowboy CB4500. The dealer has never brushed me off, even though I bought it 7 years ago. Some dealers will offer the same level of support on rebuilt used machines they sell, but not usually on machines bought from other sellers, or which were sold as is. Avoid buying from a drop ship middleman. Buy from authorized dealers who receive and unpack the machines, adjust them, fix any problems before shipping them and include a sewn off sample under the foot/feet.

The Juki 341 has been superseded by the LS-1341. Certain issues were resolved with the newer version. The Juki 341 has been discussed on LW.N. Just search the Leather Sewing Machinbes forum for Juki 341 and read the problems and solutions. Here is one topic.

American built machines include Campbell-Randall Lockstitch, Union Lockstitch and Puritan Chainstitch machines, none of which will sew a couple ounces of leather. They are super heavy duty machines. The Lumberto Classic did advertise that their machine could sew a few ounces, but they went out of business. There are still a few Number 9 machines floating around that the Lumberto is cloned from. I saw one at Toledo Industrial Sewing Machines last year. As for Japanese built machines you have Juki and Seiko. I can't say with certainty that all models of Seiko are still built in Japan. Their North American brand name is Consew and the most recent models are made in China. You can get all the answers you need by calling one or more industrial sewing machine dealers. Some of them advertise with us, as seen in the banner ads on top of each and every page. Those ads keep this forum alive.

The CB3200 is a "441 clone," meaning it is based upon the Juki TSC-441 heavy duty stitcher. It has similar specs as the CB3500 and 4500 and Cobra Class 3 and 4. These machines are designed to sew firm leather (or webbing, or Biothane) from at least 6 ounces and up, with thread sizes #138, #207, #277, #346 and #415 (all except the CB3200). The thickest the 3200 sews is 1/2 inch while the others max out at 7/8 inch. The CB341 is a medium-heavy duty walking foot machine that sews from about 3 or 4 ounces up to about 7/16 inch of medium temper leather or fabric. It can handle thin to middle weight thread from #46 through #207. Technically speaking, you can sew pancake style holsters with #207 thread.

That link goes nowhere except a broken web page on Leatherworker.net. Please try copying and pasting it again if it was in an online ad. The machine is a shoe sole stitcher.

The safety clutch probably disengaged the hook drive to protect it from the needle jam. All you have to do when this, or a thread jam happens is to push down on the button closest to the hook compartment and turn the hand wheel backwards until it re-engages the drive.

Perhaps some windings got crossed over in the bobbin, or unwound and popped outside the top or bottom cap. That would cause a big increase in tension.

The maximum listed needle size it can clear is #24, but only with #138 thread top and bottom. The 2700 is a light duty machine and is not suited to tensioning heavy thread or holding down hard stacks of leather. If you want to use thicker thread, look into the Techsew 2750, or the Cowboy CB341, or the Cobra 26. They have larger bobbins and can handle #207 thread and a #24 needle without modification. Think of the TS-2700 as a Singer 153 clone with reverse. The 153 uses the same G size bobbins as the 111w103,153,155 and156x walking foot machines. They are great for all kinds of upholstery, including motorcycle seats. The cylinder arm machines can produce leather caps, vests and jackets. As long as one doesn't overload the moving parts they could last almost forever.

I checked out the eBay machine you linked to and I think you might have missed this disclaimer: " Auction is for Machine Head Only (no table or motor included). "

This particular sticky topic was supposed to just be an announcement about the reason for creation of the sub-forum for laser and 3d printers. If you guys want to discuss technical details and methods please start a new topic to keep the discussion more focused.

Here's another video of an ASN in action.

Are you referring to an "American Straight Needle" shoe sewing machine?

Slant-O-Matics, like your 401 aren't meant to penetrate leather. The angle of the needle causes it to deflect off the strong top grain of anything other than soft chrome tanned leather. The needle could splinter into dozens of pieces when it deflects. Before I ever had an industrial sewing machine I tried a Slant-O-Matic at a Tandy Leather shop (private sale). I made a leather vest from a Tandy pattern pack and wanted a machine to sew it together along the various seams. I brought in some pieces of the leather they had sold me a month earlier and put a couple pieces together and tried sewing them on a slant needle. The needle deflected and broke into dozens of tiny pieces, some of which hit me. Never again! The needle must hit the leather dead on inline. It takes a lot of torque to penetrate real leather, especially hard stuff. You aren't going to get this power in a domestic sewing machine unless it is only a few ounces of combined seams that are soft to medium temper.