ClayB

Here is the picture I am donating for this drawing. It's a buffalo skull sticking out of a dirt bank, carved from a photo I took here in the badlands. Silva Fox saw the photo and encouraged me to try my hand at carving it. It's one of my first attempts at carving an original pattern and has some special meaning for me. I hope it will find a good home with one of the supporters of this great forum. So if you can, please chip in so that Johanna doesn't have to dip in to her lunch money to pay the bills here.

Did I miss something? How do you get a chance to win it? (since I guess I didn't buy enough tickets to win the last one!) I really like it natural. I think black is going to hide a lot of the detail, and there is a lot to see if you study what you did. Clay

Wolvenstien asked me about another thread that must have been lost in the crash last year. So here is some of it again. At a shop in Rapid City last fall my wife saw some really neat leather purses with leaves imprinted into the leather. Actually, on the purses, the leaves seemed to be raised off the leather. The guy that did these had a website, but I didn't seem to save the info on it. Here is another one that I think Kate posted that has similar stuff. Well, my wife and I decided to try and see if we could do something like this. We collected some leaves out of the yard, cased some leather, and tried to impress the leaves into the leather. My wife does scrapbooking and rubber stamping and it seems that people that are into those crafts need as many cool tools as leather crafters do. She has a few different machines that are used to emboss paper and she thought one of them would work well for this. It's called a Cuttlebug and you can see more info on it here First thing we learned was that putting fresh leaves through this machine isn't that great of an idea. The machine has enough pressure to squeeze out whatever moisture is in the leaf and makes a gooey mess. We happened to have a bunch of dried leaves here in the house so we tried those and they worked really well. \ The biggest problem with the Cuttlebug machine is that you can only put a piece of leather about 5 inches wide through it. Kate did some experimenting and found out that you can also get pretty good results using a press. (I think I should live next door to Kate) Later on when my wife wanted to make a larger book cover out of leather and put some leaves on it we had to figure out a way to get the impressions into it. What worked this time was to set the leather on the cement floor, place the leaves on top, cover that with a piece of 1/8 inch thick plastic, and then press it in with a rolling pin. I had to use quite a bit of pressure on the rolling pin, but it worked pretty good. I was surprised that getting good results trying this wasn't all that hard, and the detail you can get out of a leaf is really impressive. Here are some of the things we made using this technique.

It's been a while since I have been in the chat room. I am planning on being there tonight at about 7 PM mountain tme. If anyone has some time, please feel free to join me there. Clay

Those are really cool. So, can you do the same thing with your airbrush on a piece of leather? With the texture from carving, seems like you could make some really awesome effects.

I did mine the same way with the bolt. Just be careful when you try to slick with it because the plastic slicker will melt if you use too much pressure.

I was asked to put my comments in on this thread so here goes. There have been a lot of good responses already and I really dont feel I have anything special to add. I have been using a spray bottle on projects when the leather is up to about 6 ounce. I put a little pro carve in the bottle, just because I got a couple bottles of it in a box full of stuff when a local leather store went out of business. I dont know that it makes any difference or not. I guess I'll find out when it's gone. I haven't had any trouble with my tools not staying put (yet) On heavier leather for belts or saddle skirting, I still dunk it under water and then bag it and put it in the fridge over night to let the water even out all the way through. Not sure if that is necessary these days or not, but that's how I have always done it. If I was giving advice to someone new, I'd say quick case your leather with plain old water and see how it works. If it doesn't carve well, or give you decent impressions, first thing I would wonder is if the moisture content is right. If you decide the moisture level is right, and the leather doesn't work like I want, my next move would be to bag it and let it sweat awhile. If that didn't help, then I'd start trying the different things people add to their solutions. I dont think any one solution is going to be right for everyone. You have to take in to account the different tanning processes, what you are going to do with the leather (carve, stamp, mold etc.) There are also differences in the climate where we all live (heat, humidity etc.) and there can be a big difference in the water we use. It's great to be able to hear what works for each of us but when it comes down to it, I think it's going to be a little different for each of us. Just like learning how much moisture it takes for your leather to carve just right, it might take some experimenting to see just what casing solution might work best for you.

Hi Shirley, I wasn't too slow to see the pictures, just too slow to respond. I am sure glad I dont make motorcycle seats cuz painting all my work black would really put me in a bad mood. Even for your own hubby's bike. You'd think he would be able to see it differently. I'll be waiting to see how the green antique works out. It sounds interesting and maybe it will give it enough contrast to bring the colors together. Thanks for re-posting the pictures. It's always fun to see what you are up too. Clay

Hey Shirley, I remember a couple years ago when people were trying to come up with paisley patterns for leather. I dont remember any of them turning out as neat as this one. Kinda seems like a strange pattern for a seat, but that's what I like about this place, and your work. People are always coming up with new ideas and it gets us all thinking about different things. It's gonna take awhile to study this picture with all you have got going on. Thanks for sharing it here. I think it's great!

Hi and welcome to the forum. I am glad you found us (thanks Leatheroo!) From your intro, and from looking at some of your work, it looks like you will fit in here really well and be a nice addition to our forum. I really enjoy it when people do things differently. It gives us new ideas and helps us learn new things. You do some really nice stuff. We have a calendar here on the forum, and it would be great if you could add the class you are teaching to the list. If you need some help with that, let me or one of the moderators know. Clay

Hi Karl, I agree with Freak, the fuzzy pictures are just teasing us. Maybe for me to really see what you are doing, you should just mail the picture to me. When I am done looking at it, I can send it on to Freak (dont hold your breath Freak)

Hi Karl, It's kind of hard to see details on the pictures, especially the straight on one. But, from the side view, it looks like you really got a lot of stretch in your embossing. It also doesn't look like you did any cutting and filling on the front of the leather. If you got all that stretch without cutting any relief cuts, you did really good. I'd sure like to see a few more close up pictures. Especially of the ear and the moustache areas. I'm curious to see how you did those. You really are doing some nice work on the embossing. Cant wait to see the next one. Clay

Hi Tina, Last time I tried to post a response to this, I got a really nasty message saying the data base was gone. So, I'm gonna cross my fingers and hope nothing bad happens this time. I am proud of you for still being smoke free but I was really starting to miss seeing your artisty on leather. I really like the toad skin effect you got with the seeders. My favorite though is the piece with the grape vines. You have a way of combining things that really make for an interesting carving. The longer I look at your pieces, the more small things I find in the details. Your face turned out really well. I like the subtle green color in the eyes. Then the background color really brings it all together. I also like your oak leaves in the other piece. I have always liked the turn backs (the folded over part of the leaves) and yours are really nice. Not sure if you did the veins in the leaves lightly with a knife, or just used a modeling tool, but either way, I like how they turned out. They are very subtle also. You also did a nice job lifting the leaves. Then I like the way you used the stop tool on the celtic (horse?) for the eye and the end of the hip line. Looks like you are having fun with the new tools you got. Thanks for sharing all the pictures of what you have been up to. It's really good to have you back!!

Missed one from Kate. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Exactly my thought. If you want a thorough analysis of the quality of your work by the others on the forum, post it in "Critique My Work!", and put on your kevlar vest. And those of you who respond, please refrain from posting the same kind of "oooh, ahhh" feedback that is typical the the "Show Off" area. Instead, be prepared to evaluate the piece thoroughly and provide useful feedback on what would make the piece better, and how it can be improved upon. I will repeat that I do not think it is ever necessary tell someone their work is awful. If the person receiving the feedback doesn't have the motivation to take constructively offered ideas and opinions they receive and use it in the pursuit of perfection, someone else seeing the post will. Being insulted will motivate some people, but others have sufficient self-desire to perfect their work that they don't need that kind of treatment to persevere. Of course, if you are someone who really needs that kind of treatment, feel free to ask, I'm sure there are people here who would be happy to oblige. In that case, an exception to the principal is in order, but in my opinion, you should be prepared to ask for it, and not expect it every time you post a photo of your work. Kate

Thanks Caroline, The feather is about 12 inches long, 3 inches wide. The eagle is about 2 inches wide and 3 inches long. The whole thing is a little bigger than I had planned, but that's about as small an eagle as I felt comfortable trying to cut feathers on.

Several posts to this topic were lost to the hacker. I had a few of the yet on my computer, so trying to fill in some of the blanks. Been away from the computer a few days and just found this topic..... I too have been a bit frustrated with the lack of content in the critiques. Many times I have expected to see more in-depth comment only to find that comments have been made off public forum in PM's. This does not inspire others to post nor does it encourage us to continue to participate in the discussions. I have found that even the beginner has experiences and views that I can learn from. Sometimes have to look pretty hard, but everyone knows something that I do not. If you post your comments privately, I cannot learn from you and cannot participate. If one only wants to do leatherwork as a hobby, the critique can be more generic, but when one is striving to be a professional and do the highest quality work, we owe it to them to help them find flaws and sugest other ways. I suspect that we have become too politically correct, and afraid of offending. If we don't want real advice and criticism, we ought not to ask. Sometimes a more heated discussion makes us evaluate our position more thoroughly. What we think we KNOW, may not be absolute and may need to be questioned. Keith Very interesting topic and by the responses i'd say there are a good number of us a bit disappointed with some of the critiquing that has gone on. That said, I have often noticed that the photos provided for critiquing don't always give us an honest view of the work. An example of this as applies to saddlery would be a side view of a saddle that simply shows the saddle as a whole. If I am to critique such a photo, there is very little I can say... I cannot see if a cantle binding is straight and even with well done handstitching, I cannot tell if the edges have been finished nicely or the leather of the horn cap is even from left to right, I can't tell if the borders are even or the details of the stamping. About the only option it gives me is to tell someone they have nice, balanced lines to the saddle or perhaps they need to change proportions of a fender or skirt. The point is that if I want someone to honestly critique my work, I need to make an effort to post clear photos showing areas that are difficult for me so that people can offer suggestions that will be of real help. If I claim to want critiquing and fail to show the small details, perhaps all i'm asking for is a pat on the back and someone to say "nice work"! Darc Hi Kieth. I have seen your work, and I don't think there's a person on this forum who could find fault with your work. The only critique you'll ever get from me is 2 thumbs up. You do fantastic work, and I only dream of being half that good some day. Hilly Hi Hilly, Guess I'll have to post something anonomously and see what kind of response I would get. HAHAHA Keith I never thought this post would generate this much discussion, but I feel most of the replies are missing the point of my original intent. I suggested an entirely separate category for those who might want more serious input, not the general attitude of the forum as a whole. I also said that I would not want to discourage anyone from this craft. Hell, I'm a beginner at this medium myself! But I would also like to learn the more nitpicky details of what people observe as high-quality or lack thereof. Chris Most of the time, the saddles on this forum are in the gallery section, not the critique my work section. And most of the time they dont ask for a critique, so I'm not inclined to do so. If they dont ask or post in the critique section, how are we supposed to know they want one? I do agree that we all glean from constructive criticism and I find this an interesting topic. TroyWest Chris, I think it is getting lost in the discussion, but we do have two separate areas that work can be posted to. One is the "Show Off" section on the Leather worker Board division and the other is the "Critique My Work" section of the same division. I think your original post and the whole discussion that followed has been excellent. It has shown that maybe the PC approach is not always desired, and that open gloves-off critique is wanted by quite a few. My thoughts are that if it is in the Show Off section, probably I'd be more inclined to go PC. If it is in the Critique My Work, I'd be a little more open. We already have these, just maybe haven't delineated the purpose ad differences of each as "staff" or as users. In my opinion Keith's post of not going to the PMs and offlists makes a lot of sense, and I plan to keep it on board. Bruce We all learn when we keep things on the board. Here's an offer for the shy or the famous: if you want to post something anonymously for a real critique, send it to admin@leatherworker.net and I'll post it. Your identity will not be revealed unless you request it after you get your honest feedback. Johanna

Hi Hilly, I used several background tools. On one side I used the pebble background tools from Hidecrafter PA003 and PA004. On the other side of the leaf I used an A104 (fine texture) and an A188 and A888 for the coarser texture. Glad you like the leaves.

I was posting a reply to a message yesterday when the database error message came up. I about screamed! I couldn't believe something like this could happen to the forum again. I think if I was in charge of this thing, I would have just given up. But then I got a message from Kate saying she thought they could get it back. You (Kate) and Johanna are amazing in the way you just settle in and work at it until you fix things. I know everyone here appreciates all you do, I just hope you both know how much! After getting that message from Kate, I decided to go spend some time at my bench and finish up my project for the monthly challenge. I knew I couldn't help fix things, but I could use that time to try and come up with something to post once it was fixed. Thank you Johanna and Kate for all you do!!!

I have always thought that Jim Linnell's feathers with an embossed eagle on them were pretty cool, but didn't know for sure how he did it. I got to see one that Clay Miller did when I was visiting with him at his store a few weeks ago and decided maybe I could figure it out. So, I did one, and thought it would fit here for this months challenge.

I think this is a really good subject. I have been thinking about just this for a couple weeks now since Hilly posted a pattern she has drawn and asked for opinions on it. As with most places on the internet, when she posted it she recieved several responses saying "that's really nice". When I looked at it, I could see several things I didn't really like. Then I always wonder what to say because I dont want to be the negative one in the bunch that doesn't like something. So, like Bruce said he does, I sent a personal message because I felt that some of what I was seeing might be able to help Hilly out. She thanked me for being honest with her and I breathed a sigh of relief. You never know how people will take constructive critism no matter how carefully you word it. I will always remember the first brutally honest criticism I got on a piece of my work. After reading several of the "nice job" emails, here comes one that really stings. I wondered "who is this lady and how dare she say that about my work". After I calmed down a bit and decided to read it again very carefully. I read a line, then looked at the work the comments were on and they were right on. Then the next line, right again. By the time I was finished, I realized there was a lot I could improve upon and wouldn't have known it if the person hadn't pointed it out. After that, whenever I posted something I expected to get very honest criticism from her and we became good friends my work improved tremendously because of her comments. A couple weeks ago I was talking to Clay Miller and he related almost the exact same story to me about the same person. I really miss Verlane! I dont think anybody's work will ever deserve a "that sucks" comment and if it gets one here on this forum, I think the sender of that comment would get some hate mail back. I always remember what Bruce said about trying to find 3 things you like about a piece and 3 things you think you could improve upon. I think that if you are critiquing a piece, you should be able to point out the good as well as the bad. I haven't seen a lot of public critique from Bruce, but when he does, they are some of the best ones I have seen. I also saw a couple really good ones from Kieth Siedel. If you see something wrong and point it out, you ought to offer some ideas as to how to improve upon it. And you have to remember that there are almost always more than one way to do something and just because it isn't the way you do it, it isn't wrong. Yes, brutally honest feedback can help you learn if you take it and learn from it. If you really want it, ask for it. But also know that it can be really hard for the person trying to give it for a lot of the reasons already mentioned. I feel like I have rambled on enough here, but I hope that by talking about this, something good can come from it.

Hey Karl, You did a great job on that! No reason for you to be scared to do faces anymore. Looks like the embossing came out really good.

Happy Birthday from me too Johanna!! Hope you have a great day and that it carries over for the whole year.

Thanks Caroline, The current camera is a Konica Minolta Dimage Z6. Once in awhile I can take pretty good pictures with it. Then when I think I have it figured out, I get a bunch of bad ones. Right now it has a cloudy spot on the lense that I need to figure out how to get rid of. Happy to be able to help you out Grumpy. Clay

Thank you!!

Hi Tom, The thin line was created by keeping the shader away from the edge of the leaf, is that what you were asking? Pear shading should be done when the leather is getting drier. Paul Burnett does a series of free online lessons and the latest one is on "walking" tools. One of the previous lessons was on proper moisture content for different tools. You should check both of these out. He gives a lot of really good info in all his lessons and will probably explain it better and in a lot more detail than I can. I dont have a problem with going over an area more than one time if it is choppy, but with proper moisture, you will probably get better results the first time. It just takes a lot of practice.