BAD HIDE

It all comes down to getting paid right now vs. getting paid in the future. Is that sheath design something that you could sell someone else? Is there some new technique you learned that will improve current product or inspire new designs? Is he going to send others your way that won't even blink at $125 sheaths? Then sleep comfortably knowing it was worth it in the long run. Custom orders can waste a lot of time, but it also can turn into a very productive challenge that breaks you out of the daily grind. If you find yourself doing a lot of custom orders like this, you'll have to re-evaluate that time wasted and charge more to match the earning potential of non-custom orders.

I always advise #2. The tools in those kits are pretty low quality, and there's more junk than what you need. Start small, but if your hip flask idea isn't too hard, it might take some trial and error, but you could be going right into that. If you have grand plans, it might be advisable to warm up on simpler projects. Break it down into processes, and what you'll need to accomplish that. Cutting - you can do a lot with just a utility knife. Sewing - That always starts with Al Stohlman's book, also a few harness needles, sewing awl, thread, groover, and overstitch wheel. Lacing and buckstitching - chisels, lace, and flat or round needles. Rivets and hardware - a rotary punch tool and necessary setters. Stamping and tooling - a starter kit of a few stamps and a swivel knife, also a lot of practice leather. Finishing - dyes, conditioners, and top coat varnishes - there's a lot to choose from. Obviously, you can omit or break down a lot of these. If you're using finished leather, you can't dye it and there's no need for top coat, but that also means you can't stamp it. You'll need unfinished tooling leather for that.

It's funny how you said all that only to agree with me. Vertical integration doesn't cut into profit or markup, it only means the manufacturer keeps more of it. They can turn around and use a higher percentage to make their product better, but mostly it goes into more marketing and the direct to customer retail front. It costs money to sell it themselves. If they're selling to retailers as well as selling it themselves, then the wholesale discount is a mark up. Retailers would be pretty pissed if the company gave everyone the discounted price. They turn a profit at every step of the chain, the difference is how much of a profit per bag sold is either wholesale or direct. Doesn't matter if you're premium, luxury, corner store, or wallyworld, COA<Wholesale<Retail price.

First off, any retail price you see has been doubled twice - once for the wholesale markup, once for retail - so your $3000 bag cost $750 at most to make. That includes materials, labor, and about 30% for office, design, shipping, and other miscellaneous overhead. That's pretty standard business practice, and why companies make a profit even when it seems they're giving stuff away with crazy sales. Note, if you're not doing this with your own goods, you're underselling your work. Second, they're selling their stuff for so much because they can. Marketing, advertising, etc, all paid for with that massive markup, gets "you want this, you need this" in the right customer's heads. It still sells, despite it's over inflated price. Third, Billy's absolutely right. There is a huge difference between a $100 bag and $500 bag. There isn't a whole lot of difference after that. Maybe some specialty or exotic leathers, special hardware, and maybe just another step up in refinement - none of which actually matters that much in durability and longevity. Often high end leather looks better, but is structurally inferior and less durable than well made handcrafted items in real world tests.

I guess I'm not really creeped out by it, but that's all dependant on your worldview and how society chooses to deal with death. Some cultures hold the spirit in high regard, but have almost no use for bodies after they die. If you don't consider cadavers as some sacred thing, just another animal meat-bag with an overdeveloped frontal lobe, human leather isn't any weirder than pig leather. Odd and rare, sure, but it's an untapped resource. And like cowhides, domestic sources would have more sqft per hide than imported.

Most of my leather comes from Springfield. I have ordered from a few other places, but mostly for HO veg tan or Horween. I'm planning on trying some new places for more variety, but I have two requests for leather distributors reading this. Online shopping - I order stuff late at night, and spend several days putting things into and out of the cart. That's the main advantage of Springfield, and pretty much nobody else has as complete of an inventory online. Lists and even separate pages with images doesn't do much when I have to call during the day, ask about stuff not listed, write down my order and read it back to you. Others might not have a problem with that, but I do. Point and click = sales, and if I can do it for my rudimentary site, distributors need to take that step too. Origin - everyone's proud to tell you about HO or Horween, but where the hell is the rest of the leather coming from? All those other European and South American tanneries have names, lets start using them. I've had some great imported leather, but that's really all I know. I'd like to be able to order other leathers from the good ones. That's my two cents anyway.

I've been tattooing for 9 years, and have been doing some experimenting of my own, and here's what I've come up with. Prep - I've been using veg-tan leather, mostly 3-4 oz, but thickness doesn't matter. Give them a generous coat of neatsfoot oil, light brown dye if desired, and 2x top coat with acrylic resolene to seal it. Then go crazy with some sort of wax coat too, I've been using atom wax, this is important as well to allow cleaning, but you'll be stripping most of this away in the process, and give it a few days to fully cure and settle in. I haven't used chrome tan, but I would prep with the same resolene/wax process. Machines - run them as light as possible. I usually use 2 shaders, as liners run too fast and hard. If you can tune your machines down to almost no push, you're doing good. Penetration isn't needed, you just need to break through the top layers of finish and allow ink to get into the divots, and the sharpness of the needles are more than adequate. India ink - It might not make much of a difference, but the india ink has shellac while tattoo ink doesn't. I don't want the ink to migrate under the surface and blur into the leather. I've also considered liquid acrylics, but haven't yet tried it. My process is very messy, and I'm tattooing blind almost half the time. Keep wiping to a minimum so you don't force the ink down into the leather or get it visibly soaked. I haven't noticed any advantage in using vaseline, it may even work against you dissolving the wax layer. Otherwise, I'm tattooing almost completely dry, just a little plain water on damp towel. Shading is only possible as whip shading, no amount of dilution is possible since the holes stay open - wiping black over gray holes will leave black holes. I haven't tried color, but I assume this would have the same problem, leaving color in all the black lines and vice versa. Once I'm all done, I clean it off gently with some soapy water on a rag, let it dry, and then hit it again with a heavy coat of resolene again to soak into the lines and seal everything. You can trace the design in with a stylus or freehand the whole thing, but if you're using a hectograph stencil, it'll be tough to apply but it'll weld itself on like no other. The only way to remove it completely is alcohol, but that will completely strip the wax layer in seconds. It's best to leave the stencil until the very end, when it's all done and the excess ink is cleaned off, then take off the stencil. I tried Clear Lac before I was using resolene, but alcohol dissolves the Clear Lac as easily and you'll have a mess. I'll post pictures later, I'm still assembling a few things.

Bingo. A little dampness and minor adjustments can alter a messenger bag seam as much as 1/4" each direction depending on the leather you're using. If you can't use that to your advantage, all the math in the world isn't going to help you. If you know and can use that, 10th grade math is unneeded. I make a paper prototype and take rough measurements to get the gusset length. I then make a full leather prototype carefully noting how short or long I was off, 9 times out of 10 - the prototype is fixable or close enough anyway. Keep notes, and by the 3rd bag, the length is close to perfect. How do you fix a gusset at the wrong length? line up center lines and mold into place. If too long, either cut off the ends evenly and re-burnish, or adjust the gusset so it sits proud of the surface all around. 1/8" can net you over 1/4"at each end. if too short, line up the ends and cut the corners increasing the radius, or set the gusset back from the face. Glue into place, trim, and sew together.

I'm also approaching the craft to get away from plastic disposable culture, so using plastic thread would be kinda silly when there's arguably better and natural alternatives. Linen just looks nicer imho. The extra durability and strength of the thread itself isn't really needed, and it locks down on itself inside the holes much better than anything else, making the seam far more durable even with the threads worn away. I don't think it makes that much of a difference, but I'm at least 1000 yards away from needing more hand-sewing thread. I use #138 poly in my walking foot on canvas goods, but if there was a linen alternative, I'd switch there too just for the hell of it.

Agreed with some people on here, I doubt you'd be starting out above 25k at those places, and topping out at maybe 70k. Maybe a few of their grand masters and department heads make it up to 100k, but that's insanely high for hands-on employees. If you want to make money, become an executive and never get your hands dirty. I don't know why people are bashing the 14k lw school. If I was younger and hadn't taught myself as much as I have, I'd seriously consider it. You're learning a trade and have an a degree from a rare institution that certain employers can trust. My question is why would you want to work for them? Job security, benefits, and not having to deal with the ugly parts of business. But you'll be just another cog in the machine making money for someone else. Working by yourself, or starting up a small firm is very risky, and you'll have to vertically integrate yourself. Design, accounting, sales, marketing, and distribution are all hats you'll have to put on alongside manufacturing to make it work. But if you're good enough, the gains are all yours to make. My whole business philosophy is taking the luxury out of leather and providing everyone quality items that don't suck. Hermes, LV, and others make amazing stuff, but it's all out of reach for the average consumer that would actually use it, and most of the people buying it are buying a status symbol, not a functional object. People don't need $1000 for one of my bags, it's not going to be wallyworld cheap, but it's not going to be a something you're going to feel bad about using daily. I don't obsess over design perfection, obtaining the best leathers money can buy, or painstakingly go over every stitch. It's not garbage or a homemade aesthetic, but instead of pleasing the social butterflies, I like to take on the plastic and nylon culture with some old world leather and canvas badassery.

I think you got it. Looks damn good to me.

Definitely the block letter JAJ. Also try making the A smaller than the J's, as your first and last name presumably are more important than the middle.

It's an old post, but curiously relevant. Old hands might not give a shit, but as an environmentally conscious newcomer, I kinda do. Kinda. Stephen, you bring up some interesting points. I don't know how Cr III is obtained, but it's some sort of chemistry mumbo jumbo mixed with mining and whatnot - Oak bark is pretty damn simple. Get bark, grind it, soak it. Tannins are found throughout the plant biosphere, but there's only a few species ideal for industrialized tannin production, Mimosa being one. But trees grow back. Anything on an aggressively exponential scale is going to be insanely detrimental to the environment and eventually exhaust resources, but modern forest management has only improved conservation and provided higher yields. 200 or 3000 year old leather doesn't bother me, conditions were right for that material to resist decay. There's nothing in that material that wasn't natural. We haven't seen 3000 year old chrome tan, but given the same or more ideal conditions for that tannage, we can probably assume the same results. Neither of which is near the guaranteed 1000+ year decomposition cycles of synthetics like vinyl and plastics. Water consumption and treatment is a problem with all tanneries, but I can only assume the ones operating on US soil are far more responsible than their overseas counterparts. Horween is practically in downtown Chicago for Pete's sake. The way it stands right now, 95% of the world's leather is chromium tanned, and a majority of that comes from poorly regulated countries. Even buying chrome tan creeps me out a bit because, unless it's Horween, retailers do not list list where they get it from. Veg tan can be a more natural and sustainable product if done on the right scale and regulated properly, but it also can be just as destructive if managed poorly or operating on an unsustainable scale. I don't want to ruin this planet for my kids, but I know by even having this computer, I'm part of the problem choking our planet into an unsustainable mess. I use what's best for the job and try to order the most from the devil I know - Horween and Herman Oak - companies known for quality and consciousness. I also lean towards using leathers that are tanned in an old fashioned and natural way, something I could even do myself if I had the acreage and willingness to deal with the smell. I sorta give a shit, but since I also see a big chunk of unsustainability in our daily lives, I kinda just wanna use the good stuff and not worry about it.

A good round knife is a work of art. I can't speak from experience, as I only have a couple old Osbornes from snatching up old tool sets, but I drool over what some of the pro knife makers on this forum can do. There are some tools I can make, but knives are a specialty that I'd rather leave to an expert. As Tesla said, they get hot. I think with leatherworking though, I'm just more careful with knives. If I'm butchering a deer or something, I'm moving pretty fast and that knife is hacking it's way through meat just to get it apart. A cut that's 1/4" off isn't a big deal. Proper use of leatherworking knives are much slower. All cuts are done away from you, in a controlled and accurate manner through harder material. 1/4" is a huge mistake, and will probably mean the project is ruined. Developing good habits and being conscious of where your left hand is will be better off than relying on a safety device that hinders some of your grip and tactile feel of the work. There will be blood, but hell, this isn't stamp collecting. Every injury I've received was my own damn fault, and it's a lesson I don't revisit too often anymore.

Step one - look to others and what they price. Yours might be higher or lower quality, a different design, or just simply made by an individual set of hands in a first world country. Customers won't go for higher prices unless it's an obviously better product, so you have to adjust according to the market. That gives you a target price. Step two - keep track of everything. Exactly how much leather, exactly how much time. This is tricky with one item, but it's easier with multiple runs. I've been writing down everything in a notebook while doing 20 at a time. It seems silly when you first do it, especially if you're just starting out, but writing down start and stop times for cutting, finishing, sewing, and edging - even stopping for breaks, gives you an accurate labor cost. I even made up a quick spreadsheet that I can punch numbers in, and it'll spit out all sorts of cost info. I found I've gotten a lot more efficient since I started keeping track, which leads me to... Step three - figure out how to reconcile step one and two. Do you need to bump your price up to the next level, and increase your quality to match, or can you increase efficiency somewhere or cut material cost to keep it low. This is kinda business 101, and if you're just selling to friends, very unnecessary. But as a hobbyist transitioning to a legit business, that's just how I've managed to work out prices.

Thanks Wiz and Bob, that's just what I needed to know. I think I'll pass on this craigslist post for now, parts compatibility and capacity aren't what I want to sign up for. There's just so many machines and makes out there, it's hard to keep track when a supposedly good deal comes around. Bob, I'll be talking to you soonish... This forum's awesome, it saves so many headaches before they even become a problem.

Yet another "should I buy this" post. It's in good condition, $750, has reverse and adjustable stitch length, can sew up to 207 thread, and has clutch motor. It doesn't say it's a walking foot, and the pictures aren't good enough to tell. What I want it for - I mostly do small wallets, belts, and bags, but I'd be ok with continuing to hand sew these items. I'm looking towards making waxed canvas gear and getting into shoe making (sewing uppers), so will this serve until I can buy a walking foot or post machine? I was looking into getting a new Consew 206RB-5 walking foot flatbed for this type of work when I noticed this deal come up on Craig'slist. There's very little about this machine online, so I am a little hesitant to snatch it up. Is it a good brand? Is it hard to get presser feet and accessories? Would I be disappointed after spending the money for the machine, servo conversion, and extras only to find out this is fundamentally the wrong machine for what I want?

Osborne sells this one - Maybe if it doesn't work how you want it to as is, you could always file groves into it with a triangular file. Zack White's selling 'em for only $6.

It's 16" to that support block, 22" above the seat. Since I scrapped the leather strap and rerouted the rope to under the seat, that big support block serves almost no purpose, and I could chop it down some if needed. I might do that anyway, just angle it up to keep some support there. I didn't have any plans or real progress pics, but I could be persuaded to do more detailed write-up if there's interest. To give an idea of the reroute, I added a spring and pulley system under the seat to take up slack on the tension. With this close of an anchor point to the hinge, the rope doesn't move very far to get it to close. I was having trouble finding a happy medium with the ratchet mechanism, it was too loose at any given slot but not enough slack to get to the next one. I tried higher up to alleviate this, but it still sucked. With a spring, I can crank down as hard as I want, all the way to the bottom slot, and the jaws just get tighter. Now I get the full jaw depth with nothing in the way. or just squint at this crappy cell phone pic from the front to try and decipher it.

Yeah, I get what you're saying, but not all technology is out to get us. Cnc is a tool, like any other. If you use a sewing machine, clicker, or belt embosser, CNC is just one step further. Check this out for the commercial version of what leatherjo is trying to do. CNC tooling would be a pain to program, so you're safe there for now. All the different stamps needed, pressure differences, swivel knife work, etc. Then you'd have to start from scratch with the next piece, where as a good leatherworker can almost freehand the design and make it up as he goes from piece to piece. Commercially, they already just make embossing plates instead, but those don't have the same depth or character that tooling has. I had the same conversation with someone talking about CNC tattoo machines, and I'm not worried my main gig's going away. Sure, they can copy a design, and might someday take away the small walk-ins and computer font clients. Sure I'd lose money on the short term, but it'd free me up to do stuff I'd rather be doing. I've yet to see a computer draw really good flowy script, whip shade, or even deal with different skin types, let alone design a half-sleeve from scratch.

Full imgur album with discriptions here.

I do pretty much the same thing. I have a 36" roll of red rosin (left over from a building project) that I've been using for almost a year now, and the best thing is it's only like $12. I took all my dyes, put them in clear 8 & 16oz squeeze bottles, and diluted them down. So now I just twist the cap, put the tip in a scrap of rag, fill 'er up, and rub it on, much less mess. And here's one thing I just started doing. Making a dozen or so card holders? Why cut them apart until you have to? Lay out a bunch of parts - enough so you have all the pieces for 6 of them in one section, then cut that square from the hide. Much easier and more uniform to dye and finish a single big piece of leather than as 12 or more individual parts all over the bench. I even do mild stamping and put my makers mark on parts while like this.

I was looking into mechanized edge machines ('cuz doing a lot of them by hand is the worst) and came across Weaver Leather's Edge Slicker, and it retails for $750 or something, so screw that, I'm not that professional. I showed it to my old man, and his inventive nature was off and running. We started with a 3/4" shaft, turned it on a metal lathe to cut it down to 5/8" on each end for the bearings, then stepped down to 1/2" for the ends. Then we cut threads with a die set, there's fine threads under the chuck, normal half inch threads under the buffing wheel, and 3/4" threads on one end of the middle to hold the block in place. I welded a washer on the left side of the block, made up some mounts to hold the bearings and a guard to protect my fingers. My dad found an old motor that still worked from god knows where, a 4" pulley with 1/2" hole, and the chuck from an old radial arm saw accessory kit he never used. After we got it all together, I flipped the switch and used wood turning tools to turn the burnishing block to shape and put in the grooves. A little bit of paint, a little wiring, and a trip to find a sanding drum, and voilà. It wobbles and rattles a bit, we're not machinists, but you can't really beat it for $40 in parts, some shop time at my dad's over the holidays, and some miscellaneous junk. Apologies for the camera phone pictures at night in the basement, but I was excited to have it finished, try it out, and share it.

Pretty much the same thing here. I turn the vice 90 degrees and put one end of a wood screw clamp angled slightly towards me and the jaws coming together at the points. Sit on a stool and away I go. I really want to build a proper horse though, it would be nice to bring it out of the cold basement this time of year and so I could watch the idiotbox.

Mostly so your coat zippers and belt buckle don't scratch the paint, or to cover up the the scratched tank after the fact. It's a personal customization thing too.