Big Sioux Saddlery

They look good. Just curious what you used to age the brass?

I know this is an old thread, but I was browsing through the forum and the title caught my attention so I thought I'd show a couple pictures of one I built in '08 or '09. I used a Meanea tree from Timberline and based it largely off of a picture from Cowboy Trappings, which I can't find at the moment or I would state which page it is on. Sure different to make than a modern saddle. I'd like to build another to improve on a few things. These pictures were taken after a lady hauled it to a couple shows to try to sell for me. I went to her place to pick it up and it was laying on the floor of her trailer with boot tracks all over it, so it got a little shop worn in the process. Needless to say I was not very happy and I never put anything on consignment with her again. Anyway, it was a fun one to build and I might try another over the winter, if I get time. Maybe a little later time period swell fork next time, and try to cover it with no welts.

Typically it is used to sew a lockstitch like a machine sews. It can make sewing a cantle binding easier, especially on a real low cantle or down toward the corners where space gets tight, and I used that method for a few years. Rarely, if ever, does the finished product look as good as one sewn with a two needle method, which is why I quit doing it that way and went back to two needles. I will say the 2 needle method is easier for me now than it was years ago, just because of the years of experience gained in the interim.

Harness hardware and buckles with the company's name on them such as Boyt, Gopher, Meyer, Gold Bond, Jim Dandy, etc. Also, old harness catalogs. I find them entertaining and fascinating and can look at them for hours. Some people would say leather machinery, but I have nowhere near enough of that to qualify as a collection! You can't really have too much leather machinery, can you??

I cannot find the words to accurately describe how beautiful I think this is! It's a cut above. Did you hand stitch everything? The binding looks like it would be a pain in the rear.

Ya get what ya pay for. I thought I'd try some from Weavers, primarily because of the color selection on the harness leather and skirting. There are some things I like about it, but overall, it's not worth the savings if you're buying strictly for that reason, IMO. The yield is poor on the sides I've gotten (probably about 8 or 10 sides) due to flesh cuts in undesirable areas. The last time I ordered, I specified I needed the side to be 8+ ft long and clean enough to cut reins. I got one that was 7 ft at the longest point. Now that's a Weaver screw-up. I sent it back, had them send out another side. This one was over 8 ft, but impossible to cut reins from due to flesh cuts in the prime areas. Didn't catch the one until after I'd cut the side, so I own that one, and I'll never get reins out of it. Their light colored harness discolored really bad from working it. Pulled it through my rounder for roping reins and it turned a really ugly color. The skirting stamped pretty decent, and oiled up to an attractive finish, but it'd be damn near impossible to get a seat out of the sides I've gotten due to imperfections on grain and flesh. Molding ability is not as good as HO or W & C. It might be fine for belts. Like I said, really nice color selection and finish on the harness leathers. The lighter weights might make great belts. It's a drier leather that HO harness. Chahin's English Bridle I wasn't all that impressed with. Can't really pinpoint the reason, just didn't finish up all that attractive, and looked like the grain might be prone to crack after a few years. I've made very few holsters in my life, so I can't really knowledgeably give advice there, except that what I've gotten didn't mold as well as the domestic leathers. Good luck. If you do try some, let us know what you think. Afterthought: For about a year I have been using some hame straps that I got from an Amish harness maker (I buy some harness from him for resale as a cheaper alternative to my stuff) and I know for a fact he used Chahin leather to make them. They have held up really well, and hame straps, especially the bottom ones, receive a lot of abuse. So much of this stuff though, you really won't know how it holds up until after a few years of hard, regular use.

Most latigo does not burnish well. Not sure what you mean by "oil tanned" but I've found that typically the drier leathers burnish better than those with some oil content. "Bridle" leather varies widely; some are quite dry and burnish well, others take more work. I found out the hard way to burnish my edges on saddle parts and tack items before ever applying any oil to them.

I have made 3 tools myself just recently because I didn't have what I needed when I needed it and didn't want to wait to get one sent. Mine are very simple tools ( one beveler and a couple beaders, no fancy checkering or anything like that) but it was kind of fun to make them and have them actually work and do the job I needed them to do. Question: did you harden your tool?

Broken Ralide trees go in the trash can at my place. It's easier to fix a cheap old wood tree with no covering than a Ralide tree. Some folks elect to have them replaced with a new tree, some don't. When I started in business, the Little Wonder Ralide trees were about $40. Now they're about a$100. With labor added, it has to be a pretty decent saddle in all other aspects to make it worth replacing the tree. Way too many new $300 cheap saddles on EBay anymore for people to want to money in repairing a cheap one. Of course the good thing is, those $300 new saddles last about a dozen rides or 6 months, whichever comes first, before they start to self destruct.

Pretty darn nice work!

Thank you CW. It sounds like just what I'm looking for. I used to buy some super waxy stuff from Seigels, and while the leather itself lasted forever, it was very messy to use. Left wax everywhere including all over the cutting table. Thanks for your reply. Have a great day!

You will not regret your purchase. Mine does all 4 corners in answer to your question, albeit a little late. I figured the other was double work and with the one I bought, one pass and you're done and on to the next strap. Enjoy, it's a huge time saver, not to mention a hand saver!

I finally bought one last spring when Weaver had them on sale. I absolutely love it and worth every penny. It's something I wish I had bought 20 years ago instead of waiting. I just always wondered if it'd pay for itself. I'd say now it paid for itself with just a few uses and my hands would be a lot less crippled now if I had bought all these labor saving bench machines the first few years I was in business. Can't say enough good about it.

I'd like to know the answer to that as well! I've heard old timers talk about the latigo from the old days, but I've never seen any since I've been in business. Either too soft or too stiff, too waxy or not waxy enough, poor finish, etc, etc. I've never bought from Panhandle, might have to give them a try. Can you describe their latigo, CW? Black harness leather is another. I've seen harness which is maybe 40 years old made from GOOD stuff. Dense but not hard, no wrinkles even where the straps have been flexed and bent a lot. Just good, solid, yet supple stuff. I know that what I'm referring to is not being produced today.

Birdman wrote: "This should be set in stone somewhere on this forum! Brilliant and to the point. As I am UK based I feel able to answer sharkeyfinn some practical advice. Remember you are making/repairing items on which someones life will depend. Do you have the training and skills necessary to make judgements over what is safe and what is not? Perhaps your initial question re leather suggests you are not. And it is not only leather. Its thread and stitching and a whole host of variables. Just remember that repair you did to a rein/ girth buckle/head collar has a horse of perhaps 600kg traveling at 35 mph on the end of it! When you are sure that you are competent to make/repair tack, get yourself insured. You will be surprised at how valuable a horse can become when someone can be litigated against. And that doesn't even consider any human claims and lawyers fees......... Sobering thoughts? So get some training. " Well thank you Birdman. No one has ever called me brilliant but I do consider myself to the point; it's how I roll, no beating around the bush, too much a waste of time. Anyway, everything you said is very true. I never even thought about getting into the liability issue, but it is a HUGE consideration. Anyone doing any equine related work, whether for hobby or as a business, should be well insured. You said it as well as it could have been said. Have a great day!

If you're doing English bridle repair on high end stuff you should use good English bridle leather. If it's western tack, either skirting or harness leather will work. I charge $45 an hour plus materials and I do this for a living and I'll never be rich. Now I see that you are in the UK so it's probably English tack. If you don't know the difference, you maybe shouldn't be working on it (no offense intended).The tough part about making a living with leather in the equine industry is that there are so many people who do this type of work for practically nothing, that it gives everyone the misconception that it CAN be done for nothing. Now, let me expand on that a bit: that defines a large percentage of the everyday horse owners in my part of the country, basically they want to drink champagne on a beer budget. However, there is the occasional well-off client, not necessarily affluent, but recognizes quality, realizes they have to pay for it, and appreciates that it has taken a substantial investment in both time and equipment for the craftsperson to get to the level they are at. I think the equine industry is worse this way than other areas of leatherworking (the "cheap" client I mean). Honestly the fetish thing is something I've given some thought to. I've heard about a woman in her 30's who did this for 8 years and retired. Fetish gear (if that's what it's called-shows what I know about it) is definitely not my thing, but I'd damn sure consider making it if I could retire in 8 years. Probably more of an answer than you bargained for, but that's my take on it. Best of luck to you!

That is a pretty nice case!

Those are really nice.

That is a really good idea! Just the other day I cleaned off the table of my Cowboy 4500. I bet there were at least 20 needles of 3 different sizes and 2 different points. Some were burred on the end and needed to be touched with a dremel. Others I just got lazy and in a hurry when I changed needles and didn't put them back. I don't know why, but I don't think I've burred as many needles on all my other machines combined as I've burred on the Cowboy in the year and a half that I've had it. Haven't broken one yet though. Anyway, thanks for the tip, I might try it one of these days. That won't cure me getting lazy or in a hurry, but it will make it easier to organize them. Sharon

Wow, thanks for the really helpful advice! If I knew I could buy excellent linen I would, because I like the look of linen, but mostly I've heard about how crappy linen thread is today, and we're better off using a good grade of synthetic. As expensive as linen is, I really don't want to get the money tied up in the 3 spools of black and 3 spools of white that I would need to do what I do, IF the thread is crap. If someone can verify that they are doing the type of work that I do, on a Landis 3, using a linen thread available in this country and having good results, then I've got no problem shelling out the bucks for it. I've heard both good and bad about the advice from CR, so what I was REALLY looking for here was advice from guys who have 20 or 30 years of daily experience sewing on a Landis 3, and the thread they use, and needle, awl, and thread combinations. IMO, THOSE guys are the experts. Personally, I've gotten poorer advice (no disrespect intended for any of the true sewing experts who post on this board) from someone sitting at a desk in an office at sewing machine company than I've ever gotten from guys out there actually making a living sewing on any given machine. So how 'bout it. . . any REAL advice??

I have acquired a Landis 3 from a friend who passed away in the spring. He had rarely if ever used it, preferring his much-easier-to-use Landis 1 for the occasional sewing job that presented itself to him. It seems very tight and shows minimal wear. I cleaned everything I could access and oiled it well before even turning it over. It still had linen thread on the bobbin but no thread on top. We could not find a manual for the machine but after some fiddling around and re-threading the machine a couple times before I got it right, it did sew. I rewound a bobbin with some 277 nylon and also used 277 on the top, mainly because my 346 was at the other shop. It seemed like a smaller needle and awl could have been used with the 277 because the thread didn't fill the holes very well. Off hand I can't even remember what sizes the needle and awl were. I ran a Randall for a couple years, but it's been awhile ago, and there are some differences in the 2 machines. Mainly I need to know the needle/awl/thread combinations and how to make take-up adjustments. The take-up adjustment is completely different from what I remember about the Randall. Any of you guys out there who are experienced Landis 3 operators, I would appreciate hearing from you on any tips you have for me, and if anyone has a Landis 3 manual they'd be willing to part with or copy for me for less than the $24 plus shipping that Proleptic gets for one, I'd be interested in that as well. I will be using the machine primarily for saddle and harness work. Thank you for any help offered!

Diane, it is common and perfectly acceptable for the clinches to show on the back of a finished tack item. It is the only way it can be done if there is no room to sew next to the spots if the spots are set first. If a spot setting machine is used, and it works properly, the clinches are buried into the back and do not protrude at all to catch or irritate the horse. Setting them by hand is another matter. Very difficult to curl the clinch and bury it into the leather properly when setting by hand.

Just all in a day's work, Saddlebag:-) The ones that drive me crazy are the ones that are entirely put together with ring shanks, where every single nail in the saddle is a ring shank. They are a bitch to get apart without wrecking something.

I think I may try the homemade screwdriver approach. I have a JW string bleeder. A homemade one can't be any worse. I've gone back to cutting the slit, or at least starting it, with a little bitty pointed blade. Don't know what it's actually called, but they come in a pack and are made to go in a handle. Then I enlarge and finish the cut with the string bleeder tool. Makes extra work, but the tool itself leaves a lot to be desired. No matter how sharp and smooth it is, it just doesn't cut well and wants to hang up. I think the old sting bleeders made years ago were probably pretty good, but they're hard to find. I'd trade my JW one for an old one:-)

I have used vice grips quite a few times with 100% success. Granted, it is a last resort, because you run the risk of damaging the concho, but when all else fails, the vice grips come through. Rope edge are easier to get a grip on than a clear edge. I've had them where the screw is bent and they are in so tight that the solder breaks. Then you get some solder practice in:) Good luck