MADMAX22

They are probably selling them as "cobbler" or "harness" machines to try and peak the interest of people looking for that use. If they are both the same sub model then they are both the same. I would think figuring out the sub model then get the one with the least wear.

Different length awl blades, usually the shorter ones are narrower/longer are thicker somewhat. It is up to you to fine tune the size. Also not having the edges to sharp after the first part of the awl so your spreading the leather more then cutting it. That allows the leather to close up around the thread some but ya gotta watch and see how guys do the stitching where they poke the leather pull out the awl and the needle goes right in.

The awl is an essential part of hand stitching and learning how to use it takes some time. Something that you have to have some patience with. The pricking irons are meant to provide a nice path for your awl to finish the hole for your thread. Matching the awl blade size to the needle and thread is essential in getting a nice looking stitch. The exception being thin leather. That tandy crap is the reason people have big holes that detract from there stitching. The biggest issue people face with awl's is that they dont get them sharp and polished which makes stabbing the leather difficult which leads to pokes and what not. A properly sharpened awl will cut thru a 1/4" of leather without much effort. Watch some of armetage videos or some of the other good ones out there.

Very cool old machines. Do you have the numbers following the 45k or are they just 45K? I personally would want a servo motor for sewing saddle stuff which you can get at a decent price and attach to either machine I think. This would help your transition into power sewing machines much easier. IMHO get the machine that has the least wear. I am sure some of the experienced guys will chime in shortly. Just remember these old machines can be hard to get parts for however if you get one with low wear and its in nice shape it will probably sew for another 50 years or more.

So whats the difference from a regular CB4500 other then the presser feet?

Wish I could add it to mine, shipping would be a killer all the way to WA state.

The difference is in the "swivel" portion of the blade. I use to use a crafttool, then I happened on a henley and picked up a barry king. Both of these latter ones have a very smooth swivel portion. Like the difference between a cheap loose fitting chinese bearing and a nice tight japanese bearing. The henley and king you can hold the knife and flick the finger post and it will sit there and spin smoothly for a good bit, the crafttool not so much. It makes the big difference when your cutting curves and what not when there is nice smooth action. That being said do with what ya got if you gotta.

Got it thanks Bob. Ill give all the suggestions a shot this night and try again. I usually put a couple of drops in the race before I sit down to start stitching, the whole machine gets oiled after every stitching session/ day of stitching. These machines tend to let ya know the race needs a few drops, they start getting a little more clunkety atleast mine does.

Good call Wiz Ill check that out as well. I think mine are only 1/4 turn out from tight.

Got it thanks guys. Bob I have a good habit of holding the thread for the first few stitches.

Would like to do some belts with 346 thread using my 4500. I have ran 277, 207, and 138 without issue. On the lighter stuff I would tighten the top tensions and back off on the presser foot pressure and it would do the 6oz (sometimes less) of upholstery leather. Normally back off on tension, increase presser foot pressure and go to town on 16-20oz belts or whatever. I put in the 346 natural bonded nylon thread and test stitched some 16oz of veg. It started wrapping up under neath and seemed to get stuck around the hook area. Actually stopped the machine while stitching slow. Generally speaking when going to this heavy thread what do you guys usually adjust to ensure good stitches. I would assume a 26 diamond point should be fine for this thread but could be totally off. The 25 works pretty good with 277 and the 24 with 207 in my experience. I noticed when putting the bobbin in the thread had a hard time going under the little "latch" (dont know the name) the little plate on the bobbin holder. Thanks for your input.

Was cleaning out some boxes in the garage and ran across some WC invoices from 2012, wasn't even that long ago it seems but wow how prices have changed.

There are a lot of things that play into why we cant get decent items now a days. Not just leather tools. I work at a shipyard that use to turn out a sub a week or something like that. Now it takes a week to get a bolt turned out from stock.

I think regardless of thickness for leather cutting the edge should be mirror or near. I think leather has the ability to find any small roughness and take hold. One thing about the older knives they are probably all "high carbon" or some kind of low alloy tool steel. They all tend to rust relatively easy but are easier to sharpen then say D2 which is a great knife steel but people give up on getting it sharp if they dont know any better. Ive "heard' or read about native americans complaining when traders started using the newer better steels as compared to the 1050 or such they would normally get because the tools they had to sharpen them with didnt work. I only have a few head knives, the CSO Newark which is pretty nice and the small gomph are the thinnest. The large gomph is thicker but tapers more, its about the same thickness as the rose blade. The D Martin is in the middle to thin side. All of these blades are pretty darn nice. Right now my go to are the small gomph and the large CSO which I primarily use for skivving. The little skinner is one I made out of 52100 a while back, got it a little too hard (about 64HRC) and it is a little chippy but it does a great job at cutting neoprene foam and other materials where I dont have to worry about hitting anything too hard. The rose being on the thicker side without as much taper as the others is great for thinner leathers but thicker stuff it pushes the leather apart to quickly which like Art was commenting on can be a good thing but also can fight against ya. The rose still holds a nice edge and is pretty easy to sharpen. I rehandled it with natural walnut and a piece of copper pipe. Sorry a little off topic but gotta post pictures of your tools sometimes I guess.

I would add to check your thread spool as well. I was having repeated issues with my 4500 and found that the spool of bonded nylon I was using had somehow started sticking at the bottom (all the thread was stuck together at the bottom of the spool like a bonding agent had collected there and slightly hardened). It would stitch fine until the thread coming off the spool got to that point and it would hang every time.

Thanks John. Depending on the length I wanted to use them as the outer layer on some belts and had a few ideas for some either inlay or outer layer for some hunting type bags/cases oh and as some portions of some motorcycle seats I am thinking of. I like the texture and finish on the outside of the shrunken bull but like I was saying the stuff I got way back I wouldn't want to put on any customers projects.

How are those bull shoulders (temper, quality). I was going to get a couple for some upcoming projects and have only gotten one before from someplace else and it was very stretchy and not good leather (looked fine just was very low quality). Curious how theres stack up.

Guess I should get a facebook account one of these days ........ or not.

Cuts like that I would say can be left as they are. Now the outside edges of that wallet I would burnish. If you absolutely must burnish them, if you have one of those drill burnishers with the pointed end that they use on holsters and such if the point is small enough makes burnishing the holes a snap. Now the lines I generally will hold the top flap portion and push it in a tad and push out from the back on the bottom one and burnish the bottom edge of the slit then reverse and do the top. I would use some saddle soap wetted with water then a small brush to rub on the wetted soap then onto just the edge of the leather. Not a 100% proper burnish but it worked for the most part. Kind of hard to explain but the above is what I did for the cut belt slits in some knife sheaths I made.

I got one of those tandy knives a few years ago. I have used it 3 times I think. The last time was after I sharpened it up real good and still didnt like it.

Amazon handmade is 15% (minimum of $1) for items sold. Also reading the fees info page it looks like right now they "wave" the professional selling thing but after this time in 2017 its a $40 monthly fee so it would be $40 a month plus 15% per sell. https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html/ref=asus_hnd_lp_fees?nodeId=201818920&ld=NSGoogle

"Hard boiling" will make it harder. If you need it softer to mold it then you will need to wet it (cold water) or by casing it. This will allow you to mold it to whatever you want for the most part.

Yeah boning usually refers to molding the leather with what was traditionally a bone tool. Atleast as far as I know. Like other terms it has probably been used for various different expressions.

Thats kind of odd, pretty sure Bob knows what a needle positioner is must of been one of his inexperienced employees. The only issue I would see is where your stitching one layer of 5oz. That is the very bottom limit of the 4500. I have never used a needle positioner so I cant comment on there effectiveness. I know I get by without one. Im sure the more experienced guys will chime in soon with more suggestions.

What cowboy dealer are you speaking of? I would talk to Bob here on the forums about what is best for your situation. When you say 1/4" 5oz do you mean one or the other or two layers of 5oz? I will say the 4500 is not really suited for wallets and thinner leather. It can do it but I think something like the 227r would be more up your ally for those items you describe. Ive done a few motorcycle seats stitching about 6oz of upholstery leather with 138 thread on my 4500 and it does ok but its not the easiest thing to do.