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Everything posted by Lobo
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Arvo Ojala made quite a business out of Hollywood westerns, movies and TV series both. The US experienced a nationwide craze of "fast draw" clubs and events, primarily caused by Hollywood influences. Most of the leather gear featured on TV and in movies was far removed from anything authentic to the 19th Century period usually portrayed, and everything involved in the fast draw sports was radically different than anything actually used by working cowboys or lawmen of the period. During my years in the holster business, whenever a customer expressed an interest in a western-style rig I learned to ask "Hollywood western or authentic western?" It has actually been refreshing over recent years to see more emphasis on period-correct designs by makers more focused on historical accuracy, rather than the glitzy nonsense cranked out by the film makers. The incredible popularity of western films, and especially all of the 1950's and 1960's TV shows, had one very positive impact. By about 1957 Colt's Patent Firearms Company had decided to discontinue the Single Action Army revolver (model of 1873), but demand created by the movies and TV shows resulted in a huge spike in orders. Prices went up like a rocket, older guns became highly desirable collectibles, and eventually a flood of lower cost copies started arriving from Spain, Italy, and other sources (like Los Angeles-based Great Western Arms, a big source for the movie-makers) to meet the demand. A few of the prizes in my little collection are a Colt Single Action Army manufactured 1887, a Colt Bisley Model manufactured in 1902, a Colt SAA Frontier Six Shooter .44-40 made in 1914, a Colt Model 1860 Army revolver made in 1862, and a couple of Remington New Army revolvers from 1863 and 1864. All are fully functional for regular range use today, as well as being significant assets for my retirement plan! Guns that wouldn't bring a $20 bill at a pawn shop in the 1950's and 1960's (when I was a kid and didn't have $20 for anything) are now bringing more than my first couple of houses cost, back in the early 1970's.
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Gluing layers for a gun belt
Lobo replied to Hildebrand's topic in Gun Holsters, Rifle Slings and Knife Sheathes
I always used Fiebings Tanners Bond cement. Allows a reasonable working period to get everything in alignment. After it sets up you cannot separate the two layers without using a blade. Always figured what was good enough for saddle makers should be good enough for belts and holsters. I also cut my lining layers a slightly wider dimension, then dressed the edges down on the sander after stitching, then bevel edges for finishing. -
Very nice workmanship.
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Beautiful work!
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And it aint even April Fool's yet ...
Lobo replied to JLSleather's topic in Marketing and Advertising
Only a little bit, mostly a long time ago. -
And it aint even April Fool's yet ...
Lobo replied to JLSleather's topic in Marketing and Advertising
JLS: I understand your points about veterans and cops (I happen to fit in both categories). Used to receive requests all the time for veterans discounts, donations for benefits, etc. I liked to respond by asking what they could do for an old broke-down two-tour Vietnam paratrooper, pathfinder, combat infantryman having trouble finding a place that would take one of my Purple Heart medals in exchange for a cup of coffee. Hundreds of young cops started every inquiry with a request for their 'police discount'. I enjoyed explaining to them that when I was a police chief I fired any cop who I found soliciting gratuities or using his position for personal benefit. When I came home from Vietnam we learned quickly that veterans were not welcomed in many social circles. For about 30 years or so the Purple Heart Medal was viewed as concrete proof of stupidity. Cops weren't held in high esteem at nice parties either; I learned to tell people that I was a garbage collector (at least partially true!) so I wouldn't have to put up with rudeness and insults. I joked with friends, asking them not to tell my mother I was a cop because she thought I had a real job playing the piano in a whorehouse. Twenty-one months in Vietnam, wounded by bullets twice and shrapnel three times. Over 20 years as a cop, shot once, stabbed twice, jaw broken and 11 teeth lost to one swing of a steel fence post, several broken bones and a skull fracture over the years. Drew my salary, paid my bills, raised my children, and never expected anything for nothing. Working in the leather shop was downright peaceful! Wrapping up my 68th orbit around the sun and starting to think about spending some of my retirement funds, which I have never drawn a dime from before. For those who haven't discovered it yet, compound interest remains the greatest force known to man! Enjoy life! -
And it aint even April Fool's yet ...
Lobo replied to JLSleather's topic in Marketing and Advertising
I suppose there is nothing wrong with using patterns created by someone else to make a product you want for yourself. Perhaps it is okay to sell products made from patterns someone else created, but I have reservations about that. In my experience, pattern-making is a fundamental part of the creative process, and one that never truly stops. I was always "tweaking" my patterns based upon results, evaluating finished products with an eye toward improvement (functional, aesthetic, or to facilitate production). I was always working on new product ideas, working from a clean sheet of paper to a pattern, pattern to prototype, prototype to revisions in the pattern, product testing for function, comfort in use, etc, and it was not unusual for a new product idea to take a year or more (and dozens of prototypes) before it was considered ready for the marketplace. Not everyone has the inherent ability to visualize a finished product, draw the image created in the mind, extrapolate that image into patterns for all the various pieces required, and turn it into what the mind envisioned. I understand that. What I have difficulty in understanding is the person who begs, borrows, buys, copies, or steals a pattern to make something held up as "my creation". I retired in 2015, selling my business to a good family with leather working skills and business background that convinced me they could make a go of it. What I owned worth selling consisted primarily of a recognized trade name with brand recognition, some tools and equipment, and thousands upon thousands of patterns, each of which represented hours and hours of development effort. Without those the business would have had little or no value at the moment of my retirement. Just my $0.02 worth. -
Exceptionally fine workmanship.
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Flat back holsters .. Pricing?
Lobo replied to Boriqua's topic in Gun Holsters, Rifle Slings and Knife Sheathes
Offering optional features, such as your flatback pancake design, can be a good way to increase profitability (those who desire such features are usually ready to pay a little more to get what they want). Your customers will always set your prices for you. In saying that what I am trying to communicate is the process of establishing your price point. During my years in the business I started out as a small part-time sideline business, producing a few pieces on request for other cops I worked with. Pricing was fairly easy to do; all I had to do was keep my prices a little bit under the big name producers and I had no problems selling my products. Later on the business became a full-time endeavor; actually more than full-time because I worked 7 days per week, usually 10 to 14 hours per day, for the last 9 years or so before retiring, and also had hired help assisting with production work. I regularly had pending orders equal to my capacity to produce for 8 to 16 weeks. I found that there were two variables that allowed me to control the flow of new orders and keep the backlog at reasonable levels. Those variables were PRICE and DELIVERY TIME. In my experience each of those variables have a direct effect on order volume. Some folks are willing to wait several weeks, perhaps a few months, to get what they want; other customers lose interest if they can't get it right away. Some folks are willing to pay top dollar for what they want; others are reluctant to order unless they think they are getting a bargain. Basically, what I learned is that each week added to delivery time would reduce order volume by about 5%, and each price increase of 10% would reduce order volume by about 10%. The key, for me, was keeping delivery times as reasonable as possible while setting prices that kept order volume within the production capacity achievable within that delivery time. The final result, for me, was promised delivery times of about 8 to 10 weeks and a price structure that yielded an average of 40 orders per week (2,000 delivered per year with an average backlog of 320 to 400 pending orders). That kept us busy, but it was within our abilities to produce and the profits were optimum for the time invested. The math is pretty easy, too: 50 orders at $70 per is $3500 gross sales, while 40 orders at $80 per is $3200 gross sales, but 50 orders takes 25% more production time, materials, and supplies so the $300 difference becomes a pretty small factor, especially when you are working 60 hours per week instead of 80 or more. Of course, production time is not the only time requirement; nearly as much time is required for business admin, accounting, paying the bills, advertising, maintaining inventory, ordering supplies, etc. When I knew that my help was scheduling a vacation in July I knew that I could start quoting longer delivery times in April, which caused order volume to trend downward, so we could catch up on the backlog and allow some slack time for the planned vacation. When I saw the backlog of orders dropping (which predictably happens at certain times of the year) I knew that I could offer some sales (10% off on the order of a holster with matching belt, or similar) and stimulate new orders to keep the work flow moving efficiently. When I finally made the decision to retire I actually stopped taking new orders in August, 2015 for retirement November, 2015. Then a buyer appeared for the business, so we got busy and moved the shop from Colorado to Iowa, and had the new owners in full production by the second week of November. The new owners continue to grow the business within their capacity to produce, and as their business consultant I continue to recommend using the variables of delivery times and prices to keep everything inside that capacity. Of course, now that I am a 'consultant' I have to dress better, sometimes shave every week! Never had to worry about such things while I was pounding hides in the shop all the time! -
Beginner looking for marketing advice.
Lobo replied to Misterbeesleather's topic in Marketing and Advertising
These are some very broad questions with no simple answers. During my 43 years in the leather business my specialty was firearms-related products (holsters, belts, accessories). Even within that limited field there is tremendous variety (western, competition, concealed carry, law enforcement, etc). I have completely lost track of how many folks who, upon learning that I did leather work, wanted shoes repaired, automobile upholstery work, motorcycle apparel, saddlery or tack, doggy collars, even a little S&M stuff. There are many talented leather workers who are interested in nothing more than a personal hobby. There are many whose focus is on producing for others as a means of perpetuating their hobby. Then there are those who actually make a business (full time or part time) of leather work. Some produce products that are utilitarian or simply functional, and others produce artistic master pieces with leather as the medium. Identifying your market niche should be the first consideration. What types of products do you make that people actually want to purchase? Where are those potential customers likely to be found? In what price range will your products be competing for customers? You may find that displaying completed products at the farmers market, fairs, gun shows, or other venues will generate sufficient sales to justify the time, effort, and investment. You may also find that all you accomplish is standing around for hours while engaging in endless discussions or question & answer sessions. What worked for me was on-line marketing. Putting up a website is easy enough to do and quite inexpensive, especially when compared to brick & mortar stores or space rental at markets or fairs. The key to success is finding ways to drive traffic to your website. Social media (Facebook and others) and internet forums (sites for those of a shared interest to discuss specifics) can be good ways to get other people talking about you and your products, pushing traffic to your website. From that point onward potential customers will be telling you what they like, what they dislike, what they want to purchase, and how much they are willing to pay for specific items. This will allow you to expand or narrow your product line to meet actual demand, and to set prices at levels other people will want to pay (as opposed to making what you like, expecting everyone to want what you like, and pricing based upon wishful thinking). Until you have established a level of business that will support your lifestyle, I strongly recommend that you keep the day job! -
Colt Cobra Question
Lobo replied to steelhawk's topic in Gun Holsters, Rifle Slings and Knife Sheathes
The Colt Cobra is based on the "D" size frame. Similar in overall size and profile to the S&W J-frame revolvers, but not identical (a basic difference between the two is that the S&W is a 5-shot .38 Special revolver, while the Colt Cobra is a 6-shot .38 Special revolver). Also, depending on when the Colt Cobra was manufactured there can be major differences in barrel diameter and profile, as well as exposed or shrouded ejector rod. Colt Cobra is essentially identical to the Colt Detective Special and Colt Agent series revolvers, main differences being frame material (steel or aluminum alloy) and grip-frame length. But if you are going to make a holster to properly fit these Colt revolvers you will have to have the proper piece to pattern from and form the holster to fit. -
Conway buckle question
Lobo replied to glockanator's topic in Gun Holsters, Rifle Slings and Knife Sheathes
Conway buckles were used on the US M3 and M7 shoulder holsters (circa 1943 to 1980 or so, probably 2 or 3 million produced) quite successfully. No reason why they would not work nicely on a rifle sling. -
Which snaps for snap-on holsters?
Lobo replied to SouthernCross's topic in Gun Holsters, Rifle Slings and Knife Sheathes
Most folks aren't aware that snaps are offered in several holding strengths (light, regular, heavy). In addition there are directional snaps that can offer more security. Pull-The-Dot type fasteners are not very common and seldom used in holster work. If you are buying your snaps in small lots from suppliers you are probably getting whatever they can get for the lowest possible wholesale prices, and with no way to determine quality or serviceability in advance. You would do well to research snap manufacturers and order direct, which usually requires minimum orders of 100, 500, 1000, etc. Per unit prices will usually be less than what retailers charge for small lots, but will require an up front investment for quality on hand for the future without worries. -
Help me pick a couple of guns
Lobo replied to SouthernCross's topic in Gun Holsters, Rifle Slings and Knife Sheathes
I suggest that far too many folks are making what they think should be in demand, rather than listening to the paying customers telling us what they want. Prior to my retirement (2015) I kept careful records of all holster orders, by holster type and by handgun type. Despite all the hoopla over plastic fantastic load 'em on Sunday and shoot all week semiautomatic pistols, my orders ran 62% for revolvers (including 30% for Smith & Wesson J-frame revolvers). Similarly, my gun safe always contained dozens of vintage handguns (most out of production for several decades) representing millions of handguns remaining in the hands of people wanting holsters to carry them but frustrated because of the lack of offerings by any mainstream manufacturers in recent years. Short version: A small production shop must identify a market niche that is not being adequately served in the marketplace. That can be accomplished with unique designs, unique decorative effects, or simply by making products that remain in demand but not sufficiently for the big name companies to commit production resources. -
Thanks to all for the kind thoughts. Retirement is good, except for the getting old part. Third great-grandchild is due in a week or so. Life is good. Nyah nyah nyah nyah nyah.
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OK, I will show off a little bit. I will do it without photos or other accompaniment. Started doing leather work in 1972 as a young police officer with two hungry kids to feed and a mortgage payment to make. If I wanted something for myself I had to learn how to make it because I certainly couldn't afford to buy anything. Pretty soon the folks I worked with noticed and started asking me to do work for them, and I launched a moderately productive part-time hobby business that spanned more than 30 years. Fast forward to the early 21st Century; as the economy circled the toilet bowl and my other business interests were drying up I decided to offer some of my holsters and accessories via on-line sales. Within a few months I had more orders than I could keep up with. Within a year or so I was renting production space and hiring trainees, then renting larger spaces and hiring more help. For about 8-1/2 years the business consumed every minute of my life, no days off, no weekends, no holidays, no vacations. I shipped orders to all 50 US states and 33 other countries. Two years ago I retired. Sold the business to a good family who continue to produce my designs and products on the original business model, and they are doing very well. Now I am retired. No mortgage. No debt. No stress. Seven figures in the bank. I did not plan it this way, but it worked out better than I could have planned. Now I can get up every morning and say NYAH NYAH NYAH NYAH NYAH to anyone who expects me to do anything. The ultimate "show off" post. Top this if you can!
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Chef Knife Roll case
Lobo replied to leathersmyth's topic in Gun Holsters, Rifle Slings and Knife Sheathes
That is exceptionally nice work. Also a very practical product for professional chefs. Every chef I ever knew had a fortune tied up in his knives and took very good care of them; they went to work when he went to work and they went home with him/her at the end of every day. Anyone working in a commercial kitchen quickly learns that just touching the chef's knives can result in having your heart and entrails deposited on the kitchen floor. Seriously, we are looking at a real business opportunity here. When a chef invests several hundred, or a few thousand, dollars in his professional tools, that chef will not resist spending a reasonable amount of money to provide a safe and secure method of transporting his tools to and from work every day. -
There will always be strong opinions about oiling holsters and other leather products. I will put in my $0.02 worth here. Vegetable tanning of hides removes just about all of the natural moisture in the leather. The wet-forming and molding process further reduces moisture content while also stressing the leather fibers considerably in the forming work. All leather holsters will need to flex to some degree in use, and areas of significant stress may respond to that flexing by cracking (either on the surface or within the fibrous structure). A modest application of neatsfoot oil after wet-forming and drying can replenish the natural moisture within the leather fibers, thus allowing the leather to flex in use with less chance of cracking or crazing. Note that I have suggested: 1. a modest application. Too much oil can overly soften the leather, making it limp and useless for the intended purpose. A modest application means, to me, a light amount of the oil applied over the top grain side of the leather only (never on the flesh side because of the tendency to absorb far too quickly and place too much oil into the leather). Such a modest application will be fully absorbed into the leather quickly, typically within 30 minutes or so. 2. neatsfoot oil. Neatsfoot oil is produced by rendering the feet and lower legs of cattle, collecting the natural oils that protect against dehydration and freezing. It is essentially "cow oil". Neatsfoot oil compound consists of a preponderance of mineral oil mixed with some neatsfoot oil, and there is a difference in use and serviceability. Neatsfoot oil means just that, nothing else. Other factors to keep in mind: A. Neatsfoot oil does not "dry"; rather it is absorbed into the leather fibers, spreading itself evenly and achieving its level within the leather, and it remains there pretty much as long as the finished product remains intact. Adding oil later results in a rise in the level of oil within the leather, and such additions over time will certainly result in over-softening of the holster and defeat all of the maker's efforts. B. Oiling should be done after any dyes have been applied and fully cured. Oiling will inhibit dye absorption, frustrating any efforts to achieve a desired result. Also, oiling will affect the finished coloration of dyed leather, usually with results several shades darker than might be produced without oiling. It is essential that you practice on scraps to learn the effects of those combinations of dyes and oil that you intend to use for your products. Now I will turn this discussion over to others, probably including those who will argue against any use of neatsfoot oil in holster making. After reading all responses you will have to decide how you wish to proceed in the future. Best regards.
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The holster shown in the photo is commonly referred to as a snap-loop pancake style, an OWB design popular with those appreciating the ability to put the holster on or take it off without unfastening the belt. Belt loops can be either integral to the holster body or separate, as shown in the photo. Using separate loops allows for easy replacement of the belt loops as they become worn in use, thus maximizing the useful life of the holster. Probably the easiest way of attaching the belt loops is by using T-nuts and machine screws. I found that #6-32 machine screws of 3/8" length worked very well. The T-nut is installed to the "wings" of the holster body. The machine screw can be inserted through the mounting hole of the snap stud, then screwed down to the T-nut and completing the installation. A good resource for T-nuts and machine screws is Bolt Depot (boltdepot.com). These products are sold in boxes of 100 each at pretty reasonable cost. Otherwise you can go to a well-stocked hardware store and purchase these products individually, but expect to pay considerably more for the convenience. One lesson learned during my years in the holster business (1972 to 2015) was that hardware failures were, by far, the most common causes of warranty returns. Snaps break, screws become lost or stripped out by repeated tightening, belt clips become irretrievably damaged, etc. Keeping a ready supply of those hardware items regularly used can make your life much simpler and easier in the long run. Best regards.
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Advice needed on a mag pouch
Lobo replied to olds cool's topic in Gun Holsters, Rifle Slings and Knife Sheathes
As a combat infantryman in Vietnam I carried a M-16 rifle with 5 or 6 twenty-round magazines, usually with a M1911A1 .45 pistol with 3 seven-round magazines, plenty of water, couple of frag grenades, maybe a WP or two. Everybody in the squad also carried a couple hundred rounds of ammo for our M60 machine gunner. As a police officer during the 1970's I carried a .357 revolver with a total of 18 rounds of ammo while working uniformed patrol. While working in plain clothes I carried a .38 or .357 revolver and 12 rounds. Later, as an investigator working serious crimes I carried either a Browning Hi Power or a Colt .45 Automatic, with one spare magazine. Fast forward a few decades and I found myself as a retired cop and holster maker dealing with too many air head kids, many of whom wanted to carry their full Sam Browne belt equipment while off-duty, or even going to the rest room. I was frequently assaulted by all of the most recent graduates of "Holster Genius School", each of whom had the idea for the "perfect holster" or "perfect carry rig" and looking for someone to turn their idle dreams into functional reality. Think "TACTI-COOL" and you will have a feel for these limited mentalities. My best prediction is this: No matter what you produce for this kid with big dreams it will not perform to his unreasonable expectations. Why bother with bozos like this when there are so many people out there who have legitimate needs and reasonable expectations? By the way, still carrying the .45 automatic with one spare magazine just about anytime I go out of the house. If that doesn't get the job done you can expect to hear no more from this old man. -
Need GP100 holster pattern.
Lobo replied to TrentonP's topic in Gun Holsters, Rifle Slings and Knife Sheathes
For the type of holster described a pattern based upon the S&W L-frame or Colt Python will serve quite nicely. That will get you going, but you will still need the GP100 or a dummy gun to properly form the holster. -
Most popular gun and holster?
Lobo replied to SouthernCross's topic in Gun Holsters, Rifle Slings and Knife Sheathes
When I sold the business I completely retired, gave the new owners a "non compete" agreement along with all of my tools, equipment, patterns, etc. All I do now is eat, sleep, play poker and drink beer (great work if you can get it). -
Most popular gun and holster?
Lobo replied to SouthernCross's topic in Gun Holsters, Rifle Slings and Knife Sheathes
Success in the holster business requires identifying your market niche. Some makers serve local markets while others serve national or international customers. Some makers offer holsters for the newest developments in handguns while others provide products for vintage handguns. Some makers specialize in the competition shooting sports while others focus on the western-style market (authentic or reenactor/SASS type). If you are going to do what many others are doing (most popular holster design, most popular handgun models) you will either have to be much better than anyone else in that market niche, or you are going to have to win sales with price competition. I suggest that you may want to look at other segments of the market that are less well-served by your competition. I made my first holster for sale in 1972, and had a pleasant enough little sideline business for the next quarter-century, serving cops I worked with and those referred to me by my coworkers. When I retired from law enforcement I continued making holsters for a growing circle of law enforcement and other contacts, while operating another business as my primary source of income. As the economy started circling the toilet bowl (2007-2008) I needed to make some extra cash to make up for declining business, so I started offering my holsters on-line, selling several each week. Recognizing the marketing power of the Internet, I put up a website and quickly found myself working 7 days per week, renting larger production shops, hiring and training help to stay current on upwards of up to 2,000 orders per year. I developed several new holster designs which drew considerable interest, and further refined some holster designs to tweak performance. Along the way I gained several insights: 1. The major holster manufacturers concentrate their production capabilities on the most popular modern handguns. As new developments come along and sales of some earlier products start to decline those older products are quickly dropped from the line-up. 2. There are millions and millions of perfectly good handguns out there that people want to carry and use, but none of the mainstream holster makers are offering anything for. 3. Just because a new "plastic fantastic" or "wonder nine" hits the market every few weeks does not mean that those who have good quality older handguns with which they are comfortable will abandon the known and proven for the newest hot product. 4. Dummy guns are usually offered only for those handguns that have achieved a significant market share. That means that there will usually be a year or more from introduction to any decision to make dummies for any new model. If you want to offer holsters for the latest developments you will have to consider purchasing the actual handguns in order to get a jump on the marketplace. 5. Don't overlook accessories related to holsters. Many, many customers want matching holster, belt, mag pouches, etc, and you will either fail to get those orders or you will find out that these are very profitable products. 6. Custom work can be interesting and a pleasant diversion to straightforward production work. But custom work requires lots of time (patterning, mock-up to test & revise pattern, repeat again and again, then make the final product). I offered 13 holster designs, with or without a few common options (lining, thumb-break, tooling, hand-carving), left-hand or right-hand, 4 finish colors, for 168 different handgun models (resulting in over 80,000 possible variations), and we completed orders at the rate of 47 minutes of shop time per product. Compare that to real custom work, easily consuming 10 hours or more per finished product, and do the math on pricing to achieve an equal return. During the last 8-1/2 years of my 43 years in holster making I kept close track of actual orders and sales. In my shop I found that over 60% of all orders were for revolvers, not the most recent semi-auto pistols. In fact, nearly 1/3 of all of my sales were for one specific revolver series (J-frame Smith & Wesson). Very few holster makers offer any significant range of revolver holsters these days, leaving a huge market niche to be exploited. Also, orders for vintage semi-auto pistols (such as the S&W Model 39, Browning Hi Power, and others from the 1930's through 1960's) exceeded all orders for the newest stuff combined. Some handguns (such as the 1911 series) come in so many variations, and from so many different manufacturers, that it can be very difficult to meet all requests (I used 8 or 9 dummies and at least 6 actual guns in the shop). Maybe this will give you some ideas about what worked for me, and allowed me to have a very comfortable income and retirement. By the way, my business was purchased by a very capable family of leather craftsmen who are continuing to do very well with my designs, methods, and marketing plans. All the best.