RusticLeatherShop

Hi, Yes I agree as well that, if you did the Investment to buy an CB4500, that machine should be a "do it all" machine. To be safe go not below #138 thread, since I read somewhere These machines are built for thread thicknsses starting from #138 and up into the 400's being the normal thread #277 (as does have mine). You can cheat a bit as well by diminishing the stitch length with #277 thread as it Looks a bit nicer. But still on thin leathers, which I use mostly as well (5 oz), best would be an #138 thread. And that the machine should be perfectly capable of. #277 tends to twarf and Twist (contracts) thin leather as you see on the upper side of this pig leather phone case (around the front top). But still you are perfectly able to sew thin leather (4 - 5 oz) with #277 thread if one does not care that much about the Looks. Backstitching in that condition Looks like below and it accumulates a thick layer of thread when backstitching 3 stitches. So backstitching 2 stitches makes for a better less agglutinated appearance but then the thread can unravel (I had that with one Piece happen). Using #277 thread on thin 4 oz leather Looks like there is thread with leather and not leather with thread (holes are mostrously big as well with an #25 needle). Otherwise with #277 thread on thin leather the thread will never fail but at the expense of appearance & Looks.

I believe the CB4500 is the right choice. What you really want is the higher foot lift and thicker sewing capacity. The Cowboy 4500 sews about 7/8". Longer or shorter arm is not that important IMHO unless you sew saddles and blanquets. But it's a nice add on since some Holsters a a bit cumbersome and big and so you can easily turn them around without needing to Twist and bend the leather through them machines space. I myself have sewn shoe soles (outer sole + thick PU middle sole + top leather) which maxes out the capacity of foot lift (any less then 7/8" foot lift would make it impossible to sew that). So the foot lift is the most important Feature which you really Need.

Is that machine comparable with an Cowboy 4500? Is that (techsew) as well an chinese knock off from an Juki TSC 441 type machine? How much does the foot lift?

Most likely cow leather if it's that thick. Unsplit cow leather is very thick as such as it is the most common as well. I bet on cow leather.

Hi, Has anyone an deep knowledge about the differences between FULL GRAIN PIG LEATHER and SPLIT COW LEATHER? Over here I started to Switch to full grain pig leather due to it being cheaper and IMHO stronger (doesnt rip at all) and it is dyed. Before I bought the expensier cow leather which they sold me for full grain but in reality I am sure it is split leather. I can rip it when applied with force. Cow leather is not dyed at all. I for my part like pig leather better since it's full grain and sometimes softer than the cow leather. But customers do not trust as much the longevity and durability of pig leather and so I ask here if someone knows some deeper knowledge about the differences. Quality, durability, stays soft - gets hard over time, etc. See here some works from pig leather versus cow leather. Second below (dark) leather item is full grain pig leather (Smartphone case). First below (light coloured) leather is an pistol Holster from split cow leather.

For me it's easier to just order from Amazon. I hesitate to leave third Party companies my credit Card Infos. As for now I leave my credit Card info only to Amazon and eBay. No others.

Thanks SolarLeathermachines for your extensive Explanation. I ordered These from Ebay : https://www.ebay.com/itm/10ps-Singer-7-class-sewing-needle-7x4-NW-H-DYx4-LEATHER/260797194835?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=560031735805&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649 They are indicated to work with CB4500 and indicate they are for leather. These are for thread #138. Organ I have heard is an Japanese Company. Is that right? I am a Little worried that These needles are a bit hard to find since I found them only on eBay and None on Amazon.com. A Little worry! Otherwise with limited use one may use a single needle for years. Can needles be sharpened? I use to sharpen chainsaw chains and can see it's a similar System (or as sharpen drills). Is that a good idea? I was told by someone that one can not use an x3 designated fabric needle for leather. Is that correct? Since x3 needles are way more common on Amazon/eBay than x4 needles.

Anvlts, IMO thats the best choice. Looks like a beggar when selling stuff you purchased expensively. To Keep the machine may be worthed in a personal sense, but, as in my case, chinese competition is to stiff as I can not compete with their low pricing. Economically the machine does not make sense that much but for an personal Hobby, it's well worthed the purchase (and having it hang around). I dont know how it's for you? I believe These have gone up in Price with some Dealers, specially in Europe These are 50% more expensive, so maybe having it sitting around is a good Investment since they may rise in value. Dont know how the finish will hold up over time since These are made mayorly from cast iron.

Backstitch example with thread #277 and needle #25 (Smartphone case from full grain pig leather).

The backstitching Looks is indeed an issue to look good. It is hard to make the backstitching look good since with thread #277 it is a thick layer of thread which catches de eye of customers. As well sometimes the needle does not enter the same holes when backstitching and so yeah more pronounced the backstitch part is. At least I did not manage to make look nice the backstitching yet but I have lowered the foot pressure a bit as well as there might be a Little shift in the material which I realise just now while writing this as a potential possibility. However I never had an unraveling Problem yet to my 2 to 3 backstitches start-Ends. I never touched an sewing machine before, and at the first attempt with this CB4500 I got it right (not professionally but if works). IMO the backstitching is what it is with this machine System and will allways catch the eye of the customer. This machine is for utilitarian pieces. But reducing the thread thickness from #277 to #138 thread (and correspondingly needles from #25 to #23) will help I believe since the sewing will look more clean and holes are smaller. Thread size and needle size may do the trick. An example of backstitching with #277 thread and #25 needles on These pieces (Smartphone case).

Hi, I bought the Cowboy 4500 as well. If you want to save you some Money there is an machine availlable from HighTex with the same capacity but an shorter arm. If you dont Need an Long arm machine but the same Features, then go for the short arm CB4500. I really never Need that Long arm since I never do saddlery, but if you do blanquets that may Change. Make sure you buy the CB4500 from the USA and not from Europa since in Europa the same/similar machines are about 50% more expensive (thats about 1300 USD more expensive) in Germany. The europeans Claim their machine is higher Quality (due to "European Guidelines") but most likely they jacked up the Price only. So even for an european it's way cheaper to order directly from the USA than pick one up at a local dealer in Germany (shipping cost will be even a few 100 USD lower than the final MSRP Price in Germany). I myself ordered just the Machine + reducer + Motor and mounted it on of my old PC tables. If you have a sturdy table for spare Kind of any Computer tables, then easily the machine can be mounted on it. That saves you the 400 USD for the table. But in that case you have to buy pedals, LED light and thread stand (although it could work as well without thread stand very well). I do use the machine just occasionally since lots of leather items I have in mind are just not made and thus I make them for myself. As well it enables you to fix leather items whose thread has broken due to chinese work, etc.

Hi SolarLeatherMachines, Please explain whats the difference between 7x3 and 7x4 needles? Whats the difference between DYx3 and DYx4 needles? There seems to be lots of confusion which System the CB4500 uses when buying on Amazon or eBay. I meanwhile returned those #20 needles and ordered #23 7x4 (DYx4) needles from eBay (kinda hard to find). I can just assume the Designation x4 indicated Leather needles (for sharp edges). On the eBay page it specifies expressively they can be used by Cowboy 4500 machine. Those are Organ needles. Regards Organ brand Little info is to find and I assume it's an Japanese brand (Made in Japan). Meanwhile I did an MAG Lite LED flashlight pouch with #277 thread and #25 needles which came with the machine and it turned out well IMHO. It's made from full grain pig leather (the leather is painted from the manufacturer). It hangs over the bed post and battery acids can only run to the back cap if the batteries choose to leak (I have lost several such lights due to battery leakeage and other people as well).

Hi, I bought an CB4500 as well brand new (I am from Southamerica) a while ago and never ever have had the slightest hiccup with it. One time it did fray without any reason the thread and I had to take out the bobbin to see whats going on but that never happened again. The thread Ends have to be Held a bit but even if you dont hold them, the machine will work just OK. Adjusting the machine bobbin and thread is the secret. When oil gets into the bobbin thread then knots will Show up on top of the sewing since friction is lowered in the bobbin part. Till date I use #277 thread with #25 needle but soon Change to #138 thread with #23 needle. I sew mostly rather thin leather (2 to 4 layers of 4 to 5 oz leather) and thus have lessened the thread and bobbin Tension to the bare Minimum. That gives better results but still #277 thread is a bit overdo for thin leather. As well the machine has to be threaded exactly as required by the manufacturer even if you think you are wiser than them. For thin leather adjusting the machine can be at first done by Feeling if bobbin thread and upper thread have similar tensions. Bare Minimum Tension is best IMHO for thin leather. As well the presser foot can be reduced a bit the pressure so the foot presses less on the material. KNOTS have to be between in the middle of the 2 layers of leather. KNOTS ON TOP = reduce upper thread Tension OR increase bobbin Tension. KNOTS ON UNDERSIDE = increase upper thread Tension OR reduce bobbin Tension. I oil the machine before each use as such as I tend to overlubricate. Here is my most recent Smartphone case I made for 17$ for my worker (It's not the most beautifull work but functional made with #277 thread. Dark Brown pig Skin with magnetic closure buttons). Observe that backstitching supposed to be "in the same hole" which is a Little optimistic IMO for the CB4500. Skipped stitches are non existant as I observed just 1 skipped stitch on one of my works. But yea precise Corner sewing is a bit a challenge since stitches are sometimes a tad to short on the edge or want to pass over the edge unless stitches are reduced to smaller (very small so it doesnt look nice). These needles (Organ #25) tend to incline a tad the stitch thread as it is not in an perfect straight line (thats due to the needle Point as I saw on YouTube).

It is true, what I did is I slapped my new CB4500 onto an old Personal Computer desk. The desk is from pressed Wood tops but it's structure is Iron. It's not the most sturdy and for sure not to move around but it holds the machine for normal use. In my case it was to save some Money since that factory table runs easily for 400 $ or more. Over here one can have an sturdy table (Wood) for 200 $ new. Well yeah! To each his own! No Insult meant.

I finally was told the #20 size needles are NOT for thread #138 but for that thread one Needs #23 needles DYx4 aka 7x4 needles (sharp edge for leather). As you can see below the #25 needles I have for the #277 thread are a bit an overdoing for Smartphone cases (see Pictures).

Well 2100$ for a used one versus ~2350$ for a brand new one. Dont Forget the warranty! My warranty for the CB4500 is for the 1st owner only. I just was wondering how expensive people are selling used leather sewing machines like the CB4500. The positive is that it means it holds it's value. Otherwise I am sure it will be "availlable" for quiet some time till the brand new ones are getting more expensive as to the Price breach getting bigger (I am an Economist and so maybe my way of looking at it does not get well along for some people). IMO for an used machine, even for an 1500$ Price I would much rather buy an brand new head, reducer and Motor for 1975$ and provide myself the table. Just my 2 Cents.

Hi, I am gonna switching from #277 to #138 bonded Nylon thread with my Cowboy 4500 and wanted to see if the needles DYx3 size #20 will go with that thread. Has anyone experience with #138 thread and size #20 needles? It's for thinner leather sewing like 1.7mm leather 2 or 3 layers. I believe #277 thread which I am using now is to thick and the needle makes to huge holes into the leather when using it on wallets, Holsters, Smartphone cases and the like were I use at max 1.7mm 2 layers leather from cow or pig (which is sometimes very soft).

I bought mine (Cowboy 4500) for 1975$ I believe brand new. Machine + reducer + Motor and all accesoires (no table). The Thing is These cost new with table about 2399$ and so 1500$ IMO is a fair Price considering that if I had to pay for an used machine 2100 $ which is allmost retail new Price, I would go for just buying a brand new one from the dealer. I have understood that one looses the warranty when it's not the original owner. 2399$ new vs 2100 used = a no brainer for me. Any sturdy steel PC table will be able to withstand the machines weight as I did order the machine without table as such as to Mount it onto my old PC table. If it's not moved it will stay there lifetime.